Air France
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Who calls the shots
I understood that it was City-Jet who were involved here and that they are owned by Air France principally. KLM are just a subsidiary of Air France and so presumably won't be calling the shots on this take-over. I don't know how this will work out in comparison to the AirUK takeover but without doubt a time of concern for those involved.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Netherlands
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VLM is being taken over by the entire Air France/KLM group and what we at VLM have heard from management is that it will still take a month or 2 for the deal to be approved, after which VLM will keep its name and operation. It is expected that VLM will take over KLM cityhopper's fokker 50's and crews and hopefully the F50 routes as well. KLC has previously announced that it would like to shed the F50 and fly an all jet fleet (this would be the F70/100 and the Embraer jets that are coming).
We will see what happens, I hope we can keep our current operation as it is right now along with management cuz they are great and im not waiting to be sucked up into the bigger KLM group. It will be interesting to see if possibilities open up for VLM crew to move up onto KLM's fleet.
We will see what happens, I hope we can keep our current operation as it is right now along with management cuz they are great and im not waiting to be sucked up into the bigger KLM group. It will be interesting to see if possibilities open up for VLM crew to move up onto KLM's fleet.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Interesting, however, I can say that if you ever get the opportunity to fly for KLM, not Cityhopper, you will be treated the way you would expect, I have now flown for both, the difference is huge.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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It seems most angles have already been covered here in previous replies. All I'll add is that I've flown both KLC and VLM. VLM have been a pleasure to work for. KLC were quite the opposite. Their appalling hospitality, manners and work ethic have left many of us scarred for life, quite literally. They should be ashamed of what they did to us, and for the damage they did to their own business (but I'd bet they feel nothing, and have learnt even less from the whole experience).
Just as with the AirUK 'harmonisation', management are initially 'very happy' with the deal. I wonder if they'll all be so happy when they are the first to go when after a year or so HQ at ANR is closed down? I guess we'll see...
I hope I'm being pessimistic here but having seen how KLM operate it's hard not to be... I just hope AF have a great deal more common sense and a better ability to deal with people, and I also hope they stay in charge of all this...
What a bl*+dy Christmas present... Just what I always wanted!!
Just as with the AirUK 'harmonisation', management are initially 'very happy' with the deal. I wonder if they'll all be so happy when they are the first to go when after a year or so HQ at ANR is closed down? I guess we'll see...
I hope I'm being pessimistic here but having seen how KLM operate it's hard not to be... I just hope AF have a great deal more common sense and a better ability to deal with people, and I also hope they stay in charge of all this...
What a bl*+dy Christmas present... Just what I always wanted!!
Join Date: Feb 2007
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The BAe146 is part of a test in which (as far as i understand) vlm is looking for an addition/replacement for the F50 in the form of a jet. Thus I dont see why the operation of this aircraft should be altered. However with the new financial backing it would be nice if jet interest could switched to something like a ERJ135
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Erj135 doesn`t have enough seats. Think they trialled the 146 has it has more than 50 seats and there is enough interest to fill more than 50 seats at a time on that route.
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I've heard it rumoured a couple of times that a UK operator (aside from Flybe) is aiming to acquire 10 x DHC8-400s. I'm just putting 2 & 2 together here, so as always DYOR. However, there's obviously a few ex-SAS ones available.
In the circumstances it would be daft to replace the F50 with a lower capacity jet as Delta Wun-Wun states.
In the circumstances it would be daft to replace the F50 with a lower capacity jet as Delta Wun-Wun states.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Well since VLM's new owners will now (indirectly through CityJet) have a wealth of knowledge and expertise in operating the BAe146/Avro RJ family, it seems counter productive for the lease to go on!
One of the best bits of customer-first attitude I ever saw in the industry took place aboard a VLM F50.
We were all sat aboard on the London City ramp ready to depart for Manchester. Skipper came on the PA to say there were still a few minutes before departure time and we were "waiting for a connecting passenger". Sure enough another VLM F50, inbound from Antwerp and a bit late, taxied in to the adjacent stand and our dispatcher was waiting by their steps. Out get pax #1 and the DS speaks to him and takes him towards us.
Guess what, he had hold baggage. Ramper opens hold, pax identifies his bag, DS takes it, puts pax up our stairs and bag in our hold. Completes load sheet, and we are closed up and away on time.
Poor travel-weary pax in his dishevelled suit (appeared to be Spanish as his newspaper he was reading was in that language) collapses in our plane and sleeps the trip up to Manchester.
Now KLM, can you match that ? The whole thing had presumably been coordinated on the company frequency in the minutes beforehand. VLM got to where they are by knowing the business traveller world inside-out and working in this and similar ways.
We were all sat aboard on the London City ramp ready to depart for Manchester. Skipper came on the PA to say there were still a few minutes before departure time and we were "waiting for a connecting passenger". Sure enough another VLM F50, inbound from Antwerp and a bit late, taxied in to the adjacent stand and our dispatcher was waiting by their steps. Out get pax #1 and the DS speaks to him and takes him towards us.
Guess what, he had hold baggage. Ramper opens hold, pax identifies his bag, DS takes it, puts pax up our stairs and bag in our hold. Completes load sheet, and we are closed up and away on time.
Poor travel-weary pax in his dishevelled suit (appeared to be Spanish as his newspaper he was reading was in that language) collapses in our plane and sleeps the trip up to Manchester.
Now KLM, can you match that ? The whole thing had presumably been coordinated on the company frequency in the minutes beforehand. VLM got to where they are by knowing the business traveller world inside-out and working in this and similar ways.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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commentary on rapid transit for a VG pax at LCY
It is interesting to read about the great service a VG pax got on a interesting transit.
I wonder if this breached some DFT regulations?
Normally a pax on transit from an International flight to a domestic flight needs to clear UK immigration and customs at UK entry point.
Also they need to clear UK security screening.
On outbounds from the UK, the transit would not be an issue apart from maybe what LCY have to say about it.
I have experienced this as a hand baggage pax travelling between MAN and Antwerp 3 years ago. We arrived next to the aircraft that was travelling to Antwerp.
They had boarded and were ready to go. We were 10 mins late and I still got put onto a bus to domestic arrivals, had to go up the stairs and negotiate security. I missed the flight, but did get re-booked onto the next one 2 hours later without any questions or fussing.
I agree that VLM has a great product and think their management style is good too. It is a refreshing airline in this day and age and I only hope their joining AF / KL is not going to compromise their customer service.
I wish you all at VG the best for the future in your new relationship with the Dutch and French.
I wonder if this breached some DFT regulations?
Normally a pax on transit from an International flight to a domestic flight needs to clear UK immigration and customs at UK entry point.
Also they need to clear UK security screening.
On outbounds from the UK, the transit would not be an issue apart from maybe what LCY have to say about it.
I have experienced this as a hand baggage pax travelling between MAN and Antwerp 3 years ago. We arrived next to the aircraft that was travelling to Antwerp.
They had boarded and were ready to go. We were 10 mins late and I still got put onto a bus to domestic arrivals, had to go up the stairs and negotiate security. I missed the flight, but did get re-booked onto the next one 2 hours later without any questions or fussing.
I agree that VLM has a great product and think their management style is good too. It is a refreshing airline in this day and age and I only hope their joining AF / KL is not going to compromise their customer service.
I wish you all at VG the best for the future in your new relationship with the Dutch and French.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Ah so the rumours a few months ago were true then, after all there is never smoke without fire (well most of the time anyhow).
Well I have to say it makes sense now as KLM have just given up LHR slots used by their Fokker 50 (i beleive LHR-EIN but may be wrong) for NW flights out of LHR to the USA, plus im guessing LCY is a far more pratical airport to use than LHR for those business travellers.
I wonder what all the poor ex AirUK guys are thinking "Oh god here we go again". Well if BALPA is going to do as good a job as they did with AirUK then god help you guys, i watched it all and was so disheartened at BALPA's lack of ability to do anything. Having said that Im sure KLM and KLMcityhopper learnt alot form the previous takeover. Shall wait and see what happens to VLM im sure though it will not be all bad and may open up oportuinities.
If you guys do get the oportunity to apply for the KLM (mainline) contract i can recommend it, its a good deal (for the younger guys and girls). KLM are short of pilots and are running out out candidates from there school KLS and also NLS so im sure free market pilots will be lapped up, seniority lists expanding quickly as well as large orders for new aircraft both in KLMCityhopper and KLM.
It might be an added bonus for the English that are still flying for KLMcityhopper could there be an LCY basing for them now to deadhead out of or even be able to use VLM for XCM travel.
Well I have to say it makes sense now as KLM have just given up LHR slots used by their Fokker 50 (i beleive LHR-EIN but may be wrong) for NW flights out of LHR to the USA, plus im guessing LCY is a far more pratical airport to use than LHR for those business travellers.
I wonder what all the poor ex AirUK guys are thinking "Oh god here we go again". Well if BALPA is going to do as good a job as they did with AirUK then god help you guys, i watched it all and was so disheartened at BALPA's lack of ability to do anything. Having said that Im sure KLM and KLMcityhopper learnt alot form the previous takeover. Shall wait and see what happens to VLM im sure though it will not be all bad and may open up oportuinities.
If you guys do get the oportunity to apply for the KLM (mainline) contract i can recommend it, its a good deal (for the younger guys and girls). KLM are short of pilots and are running out out candidates from there school KLS and also NLS so im sure free market pilots will be lapped up, seniority lists expanding quickly as well as large orders for new aircraft both in KLMCityhopper and KLM.
It might be an added bonus for the English that are still flying for KLMcityhopper could there be an LCY basing for them now to deadhead out of or even be able to use VLM for XCM travel.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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From what I'm hearing AF/KLM will have little to do with this apart from being the parent.
The F50s and crews will be transferred to Cityjet and the F50s will eventually be replaced by RJs. The high pax rotations will transfer to RJs effective for the summer season with the F50 doing some of the lighter rotations.
Makes Cityjet a very strong player at LCY.
Looks like BA missed the boat (perhaps intenionally)
Tom
The F50s and crews will be transferred to Cityjet and the F50s will eventually be replaced by RJs. The high pax rotations will transfer to RJs effective for the summer season with the F50 doing some of the lighter rotations.
Makes Cityjet a very strong player at LCY.
Looks like BA missed the boat (perhaps intenionally)
Tom
Join Date: Mar 2003
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They used to code-share until 3-4 years ago when Luxair decided to move its STN flight to LCY and compete head-to-head with VLM. I am surprised to hear that they code-share nowadays - what is your source?
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Thanks Virgin Blue
I've just checked the Luxair online timetable and Manchester to Luxembourg flight is no longer there! Yet I have a hard copy( LUXAIR) dated 28/10/07 to 29/03/2008 and it lists Man-Lux with 4 flights a day via LCY with VG flight codes. I know Luxair dropped the route a few months ago and even flew on one the last flights which was pretty full. So the question is If Luxair pulled off the route because of the competition from VLM then why advertise their flights it in the timetable?
I've just checked the Luxair online timetable and Manchester to Luxembourg flight is no longer there! Yet I have a hard copy( LUXAIR) dated 28/10/07 to 29/03/2008 and it lists Man-Lux with 4 flights a day via LCY with VG flight codes. I know Luxair dropped the route a few months ago and even flew on one the last flights which was pretty full. So the question is If Luxair pulled off the route because of the competition from VLM then why advertise their flights it in the timetable?
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I guess they offer MAN-LCY-LUX with only the first leg being operated by VLM. So what you see is not a code-share but just a one-stop service on two airlines (VG123/LG456).