Jet2 - 3
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I don't believe everything I read on here! I am more inclined to believe formal statements to the LSE from a listed company considering that anything other than truth is not looked too favourably on by Inspector Knacker. Fraud, I think they call it.
So whilst the fine detail of how to interpret company trading statements may be beyond the mere mortals on here, I'll take my steer from how the aviation analysts in the city have reacted to the statement. As at 11:00, Dart Group up 22%, 6th biggest riser on the FTSE all share.
So, tell us again. What have you spotted in the statement that has been missed en masse by professional share traders?
So whilst the fine detail of how to interpret company trading statements may be beyond the mere mortals on here, I'll take my steer from how the aviation analysts in the city have reacted to the statement. As at 11:00, Dart Group up 22%, 6th biggest riser on the FTSE all share.
So, tell us again. What have you spotted in the statement that has been missed en masse by professional share traders?
Join Date: Jul 2003
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The same things that were missed by the "professionals" when the former CEO of Silverjet was saying much the same thing......
Their share price went up then, too.
They then went down when the profit-taking started and the real story started to emerge.
Their share price went up then, too.
They then went down when the profit-taking started and the real story started to emerge.
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"Ok tartinton, so your saying Jet2 is going to fail?"
I'd say there was a better than even chance, yes.
"Not a great lover of Jet2 then Tartinton?"
Not really. I find their pricing misleading at best. The fact that
you don't actually find out what you're paying until stage 6 of the booking process could be said to be illegal under current legislation when the full price
is supposed to be shown on the first screen. I find that particularly annoying and misleading when most other carriers have managed to amend their systems (Ryanair being the notable exception).
I think if Ryan or Easy were to step into LBA in a serious way then they would be gone in months or maybe even weeks.
Just my point of view...
I'd say there was a better than even chance, yes.
"Not a great lover of Jet2 then Tartinton?"
Not really. I find their pricing misleading at best. The fact that
you don't actually find out what you're paying until stage 6 of the booking process could be said to be illegal under current legislation when the full price
is supposed to be shown on the first screen. I find that particularly annoying and misleading when most other carriers have managed to amend their systems (Ryanair being the notable exception).
I think if Ryan or Easy were to step into LBA in a serious way then they would be gone in months or maybe even weeks.
Just my point of view...
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TT
May we assume that as you are posting on PPRUNE that you are, in fact a pilot or hold some resonable position in the aviation industry............
I spoke to the Chief Executive for some time last week, who seemed nothing if not jovial about the current performance and forecasts.
If he's at the top of a company that he owns 51% of that is about to go bust, he certainly masks his fears very well.
May we assume that as you are posting on PPRUNE that you are, in fact a pilot or hold some resonable position in the aviation industry............
I spoke to the Chief Executive for some time last week, who seemed nothing if not jovial about the current performance and forecasts.
If he's at the top of a company that he owns 51% of that is about to go bust, he certainly masks his fears very well.
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If he's at the top of a company that he owns 51% of that is about to go bust, he certainly masks his fears very well.
Like he's going to admit any problems to a mere employee. Shareholders would run for the hills and it would definetly go bust then. Of course he's going to be
jovial about the current performance and forecasts
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Right i'm just a humble PPL student and Dart Group investor here but Mr. Brown and TartinTon are you suggesting that The Dart Group has 'made up' their financial performance? That they are lieing? That they are decieving employees, shareholders etc?
I dont want to sound like a d!ck but The London Stock Exchange, RNS, The Dart Group, Philip Meeson, Andrew Merirck, and yes employees like 757 Speedbrakes WILL know more about The Dart Group/Jet2 than you! Reputable companies i.e Thomson Financial will NOT publish articles/statements/facts that are not true!
I dont want to sound like a d!ck but The London Stock Exchange, RNS, The Dart Group, Philip Meeson, Andrew Merirck, and yes employees like 757 Speedbrakes WILL know more about The Dart Group/Jet2 than you! Reputable companies i.e Thomson Financial will NOT publish articles/statements/facts that are not true!
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Always hard to know what is going on behind the scenes in any company. All I can say, as a "mere employee" and airframe driver, is that on all the routes I have flown this year the load factors have been noticeably better than over the past 3 or 4 years.
Jet 2 do not have more aircraft than last year (as stated previously on this thread). In fact, there are 3 fewer than last summer, when you take into account the very expensive wet leases we had during the period of rapid expansion. A good number of underperforming routes have been ditched, and a lot more charters have been evident in my rosters.
Fuel costs are a major concern for everyone, though at least jet2 are hedged well ahead, and therefore can work out costs, charges and fares with some degree of confidence. At the moment, despite increased fares etc, the public still appear to be treating their holidays as a high priority. If that changes, then we are all in trouble - and that includes the high cost base majors (who are capable of sustaining heavy losses in the medium term, but not indefinitely).
To summarise, there is certainly no air of impending doom about the place. It could even be argued that jet2, possibly as much through luck as through judgement, is better positioned than many in these uncertain times.
Jet 2 do not have more aircraft than last year (as stated previously on this thread). In fact, there are 3 fewer than last summer, when you take into account the very expensive wet leases we had during the period of rapid expansion. A good number of underperforming routes have been ditched, and a lot more charters have been evident in my rosters.
Fuel costs are a major concern for everyone, though at least jet2 are hedged well ahead, and therefore can work out costs, charges and fares with some degree of confidence. At the moment, despite increased fares etc, the public still appear to be treating their holidays as a high priority. If that changes, then we are all in trouble - and that includes the high cost base majors (who are capable of sustaining heavy losses in the medium term, but not indefinitely).
To summarise, there is certainly no air of impending doom about the place. It could even be argued that jet2, possibly as much through luck as through judgement, is better positioned than many in these uncertain times.
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I dont want to sound like a d!ck but The London Stock Exchange, RNS, The Dart Group, Philip Meeson, Andrew Merirck, and yes employees like 757 Speedbrakes WILL know more about The Dart Group/Jet2 than you! Reputable companies i.e Thomson Financial will NOT publish articles/statements/facts that are not true!
As an employee I know a little about Jet2.
All I can say, as a "mere employee" and airframe driver, is that on all the routes I have flown this year the load factors have been noticeably better than over the past 3 or 4 years
Jet 2 do not have more aircraft than last year (as stated previously on this thread). In fact, there are 3 fewer than last summer, when you take into account the very expensive wet leases we had during the period of rapid expansion. A good number of underperforming routes have been ditched, and a lot more charters have been evident in my rosters.
How ever AJ has joined us on a long term lease with the added Mainteneance cost and crewing costs, so Jet2 have more aircraft in the long term.
Lets just see what the future brings for Jet2 then. I'm not a total doom and Gloomer. I think the end of summer 09 will reveal alot
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Mr Brown re:
"Que tumble weed at BLK, and NCL is fairly quiet...
This winter is going to take a fair chunk out of all the hard work this summer."
Every airline is out to minimise loss this winter,B.A,RYR,EZY,Flybe etc, so why are suggesting that Jet2.com should not batten down the hatches on all the hard work this summer( i.e profits ) and keep it in the bank ? Are they doing anything that the others aren't ?
You don't have the full day to day financial picture..none of us do...but I do know this.... the Jet2.com charter a/c down in Stan and Teds is working its nuts off during WO8 ,as are a lot of the other bases a/c. So yes, I can actually believe that margins/yields are up from the charter work and that costs are being contained on the lo-co.
So thanks for the "we're all doomed " Mr Brown, But I guess I will just have to keep turning up, like I have for the past 19 years !!!!!
PS I like the Mad Micks Madness, but hasn't he sold his soul/shares out to the race horses !
"Que tumble weed at BLK, and NCL is fairly quiet...
This winter is going to take a fair chunk out of all the hard work this summer."
Every airline is out to minimise loss this winter,B.A,RYR,EZY,Flybe etc, so why are suggesting that Jet2.com should not batten down the hatches on all the hard work this summer( i.e profits ) and keep it in the bank ? Are they doing anything that the others aren't ?
You don't have the full day to day financial picture..none of us do...but I do know this.... the Jet2.com charter a/c down in Stan and Teds is working its nuts off during WO8 ,as are a lot of the other bases a/c. So yes, I can actually believe that margins/yields are up from the charter work and that costs are being contained on the lo-co.
So thanks for the "we're all doomed " Mr Brown, But I guess I will just have to keep turning up, like I have for the past 19 years !!!!!
PS I like the Mad Micks Madness, but hasn't he sold his soul/shares out to the race horses !
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Jet2 will be around for a while
Jet2 put the brakes on its growth last winter and given the dismal profit for 07/08 it was just in time! it claims to be well hedged and this (Summer) if that what you can call it will have given a late boost to booking with a better yield.
By pulling much of its short haul city stuff (MAN-EDI) it can focus on what it does best, the med and the medium haul stuff on the 757 can be profitable. So long as PM isn't allowed by his (poorer) shareholder to go off across the pond then the rest seems ok (trucks, mail & charter) this winter will be tough for all and next summer wont be as easy as this one.
I am not a doom monger but if you think its bad now (the economy) wait until next spring, oil will probably be back below $100pb due to the collapse in demand, but with so many unemployed and probably higher interest rates than now a holiday will be lower down the list, much of this years robustness in pax numbers for all LoCo comes from people have booked early in the year when people thought it couldn't get much worse.
I don't think things are as good at Globespam although the collapse of Zoom might help. The increase in fuel costs will be hurting big style, i think without the MOD Falklands contract and Air India they would be dead already. The management must be a set of clowns up there, mixed fleets one aircraft bases, all the additional costs of hotac & positioning non revenue sectors do they learn nothing from the likes of Easy/Ryanair/bmibaby...........Globespam will burn a lot of cash this winter
By pulling much of its short haul city stuff (MAN-EDI) it can focus on what it does best, the med and the medium haul stuff on the 757 can be profitable. So long as PM isn't allowed by his (poorer) shareholder to go off across the pond then the rest seems ok (trucks, mail & charter) this winter will be tough for all and next summer wont be as easy as this one.
I am not a doom monger but if you think its bad now (the economy) wait until next spring, oil will probably be back below $100pb due to the collapse in demand, but with so many unemployed and probably higher interest rates than now a holiday will be lower down the list, much of this years robustness in pax numbers for all LoCo comes from people have booked early in the year when people thought it couldn't get much worse.
I don't think things are as good at Globespam although the collapse of Zoom might help. The increase in fuel costs will be hurting big style, i think without the MOD Falklands contract and Air India they would be dead already. The management must be a set of clowns up there, mixed fleets one aircraft bases, all the additional costs of hotac & positioning non revenue sectors do they learn nothing from the likes of Easy/Ryanair/bmibaby...........Globespam will burn a lot of cash this winter
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Facelookbovard
Globespan if you don't mind!
Do you see us calling you Jet3!
Flyglobespan's hedged against fuel for this summer and winter 08/09.
As for the fleet comment the two 733's they own are bye bye! Febuary 09 becuase of there poor state and there gas guzzling nature whilst the rest of the 737's are all NG'S most fitted with winglets bar 3 because of the 733's Globespan are leaving there 1 a/c base MME.
So what GSM lease off there 3 large long-haul a/c in the winter becuase the loads are just not there so prefer to use there 752 to SFB in winter which is more economical and have the 763's out there making the cash.
Im sure if Jet2 even had 767's they would do the same.
GSM can't be that desperate for the air india contract far as we are aware they turned air india down to renew it!
Then there the Globespan group whichs own hotels etc in Europe
Globespan if you don't mind!
Do you see us calling you Jet3!
Flyglobespan's hedged against fuel for this summer and winter 08/09.
As for the fleet comment the two 733's they own are bye bye! Febuary 09 becuase of there poor state and there gas guzzling nature whilst the rest of the 737's are all NG'S most fitted with winglets bar 3 because of the 733's Globespan are leaving there 1 a/c base MME.
So what GSM lease off there 3 large long-haul a/c in the winter becuase the loads are just not there so prefer to use there 752 to SFB in winter which is more economical and have the 763's out there making the cash.
Im sure if Jet2 even had 767's they would do the same.
GSM can't be that desperate for the air india contract far as we are aware they turned air india down to renew it!
Then there the Globespan group whichs own hotels etc in Europe
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5476
Sorry for the typoo (why do they put these keys next to each other/)
Ha fuel hedging!! the great get out of jail card, trouble is sooner or later the positions run out, its a bit like having a fixed mortgage, then one morning your back to the standard variable rate, unless you've sorted the business out by then your in s**t creek.
The fact remains that there is only a very small business to be made out of flying long haul from Scotland, yes some charter and some schedule, but mainly American's who can interlink with their own net works, off course many Scot's will vote to fly with Scotlands airline, well at least once until something goes wrong, but for the business traveller (and THATS WHERE THE MONEY IS MADE) then its the shuttle to LHR every time or AMS or CDG, sure your luggage might come a few days later, but at least you wont need to keep unpacking in Hamilton or where ever.
Thanks for reminding me that Globespam have hotels in Europe, i'll add them to my list to avoid along with anything starting with REX!!
Facelookbovvered......
Ha fuel hedging!! the great get out of jail card, trouble is sooner or later the positions run out, its a bit like having a fixed mortgage, then one morning your back to the standard variable rate, unless you've sorted the business out by then your in s**t creek.
The fact remains that there is only a very small business to be made out of flying long haul from Scotland, yes some charter and some schedule, but mainly American's who can interlink with their own net works, off course many Scot's will vote to fly with Scotlands airline, well at least once until something goes wrong, but for the business traveller (and THATS WHERE THE MONEY IS MADE) then its the shuttle to LHR every time or AMS or CDG, sure your luggage might come a few days later, but at least you wont need to keep unpacking in Hamilton or where ever.
Thanks for reminding me that Globespam have hotels in Europe, i'll add them to my list to avoid along with anything starting with REX!!
Facelookbovvered......
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It's not just the price of oil but also the exchange rate. At present you get $1.82 to the pound so a barrel of oil at $100 costs £54. Slip to $1.50 to the pound and the same barrel costs £67. It's highly unlikely that anyone has hedged in sterling (unless the fuel industry has changed its ways) so I would think that all airlines are vulnerable. What we need is high inflation and high interest rates to boost the exchange rate, along with low inflation and low interest rates to stimulate consumer demand. I'm off to lie down in a dark room till my brain stops hurting....
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Facelookbovvered
What’s your insight in to the operations of GSM? Go on, I’m intrigued!
There are more similarities than differences between Jet 2 and GSM. We both operate the same Boeing mixed fleets, fly short to medium haul sectors aimed at the holiday market, both position empty a/c, hotac crew, have our fair share of tech issues and probably pay, near-as-damn it, the same cost/ltr for gas!
What’s your point??
The holiday charter market from Scotland has been very big for many years – it’s the one thing most Scot’s will spend their last pennies on! Globespan, before we were an airline, along with Barrhead Travel and others have been filling planes all year round and will continue to do so!
Business Travel, over the next few years will become less and less. More and more companies are not willing to pay the high costs for last minute tickets with the like of Easy/BA/BMI anymore and if the country does go in to recession, it will stop. As for the shuttle to LHR, you are joking? Have you seen how many flights Big Airways have dropped for the next 12 months? Video conferencing will become the norm, desk-top video calls will become more evident and your two weeks on the beach with your PDA will be even more needed!
I’ll put my neck out and say that I do agree with you. The long haul market from Scotland is limited, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Delta/Conti/Emirates all operate long haul flights to the Middle East and America from Scotland. Zoom and GSM did/do operate to Canada and I believe these flights will commence again with another operator.
I for one feel a merger with Jet 2/GSM would be a good move. Same types, same market with different destinations from different bases and more importantly both have Cargo ops approvals!
What’s your insight in to the operations of GSM? Go on, I’m intrigued!
There are more similarities than differences between Jet 2 and GSM. We both operate the same Boeing mixed fleets, fly short to medium haul sectors aimed at the holiday market, both position empty a/c, hotac crew, have our fair share of tech issues and probably pay, near-as-damn it, the same cost/ltr for gas!
What’s your point??
The holiday charter market from Scotland has been very big for many years – it’s the one thing most Scot’s will spend their last pennies on! Globespan, before we were an airline, along with Barrhead Travel and others have been filling planes all year round and will continue to do so!
Business Travel, over the next few years will become less and less. More and more companies are not willing to pay the high costs for last minute tickets with the like of Easy/BA/BMI anymore and if the country does go in to recession, it will stop. As for the shuttle to LHR, you are joking? Have you seen how many flights Big Airways have dropped for the next 12 months? Video conferencing will become the norm, desk-top video calls will become more evident and your two weeks on the beach with your PDA will be even more needed!
I’ll put my neck out and say that I do agree with you. The long haul market from Scotland is limited, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Delta/Conti/Emirates all operate long haul flights to the Middle East and America from Scotland. Zoom and GSM did/do operate to Canada and I believe these flights will commence again with another operator.
I for one feel a merger with Jet 2/GSM would be a good move. Same types, same market with different destinations from different bases and more importantly both have Cargo ops approvals!
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chickenwings, insight, none just been around a bit!
The likes of EK offer the world via their hub and that make it another ball game, i know you aren't suggesting that Globespam (dam it thoose keys again) aren't competing with EK or BA for that matter, but unless your an international legacy airline eg BA,AFKLM,AA,DELTA,UA,EK,CA then it wont work because you'll never get the people up front spending £ks and all of the above have got more money invested in business lounges than Globespam(dam thoose keys) have in engineering.
I'ts really that simple. There is more money (by a huge margin) inside the M25 than there ever will be outside it, i don't see Jet2 and Globespam as the same, one is a travel company trying to be an airline the other is an airline trying to be a travel company, both would IMHO have made more money for less risk if they stuck to what they do best!!??, remember its not (all) their money at risk, they have shareholders funds to consider, Sir Mick & Sir Richard do not have to concern themselfs with thousand of small(and sadly all to often misguided employee, remember Silverjet!!) shareholders to consider
I'ts really that simple. There is more money (by a huge margin) inside the M25 than there ever will be outside it, i don't see Jet2 and Globespam as the same, one is a travel company trying to be an airline the other is an airline trying to be a travel company, both would IMHO have made more money for less risk if they stuck to what they do best!!??, remember its not (all) their money at risk, they have shareholders funds to consider, Sir Mick & Sir Richard do not have to concern themselfs with thousand of small(and sadly all to often misguided employee, remember Silverjet!!) shareholders to consider
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Facelookbovard
Don't forget PM used the hedging excuse against Ryanairs MO aswell so it won't be long before Flyglobespan and Jet2 are in the same boat with the mortgage payments (as you put it) soon to be put up!
In the case of jet3 (damm 2,3 next to each other) there are shareholders to cosider but at GSM theres no shareholders just one man Tom Dalrymyple who has ultimate control over the airline owning 100% last year he made a 13million loss and he didn't show one bit of worry because the airline is already back on track to profit.
Though the long-haul market from Scotland is limited it works for GSM there loads for each flight are around 90-100% full to SFB and same from the UK to Canada. Now they have a bigger share of the market in certain UK airports because of the collapse of ZOOM.
I think the strategy as you put it a Travel company trying to become an airline works the better way around than an airline trying to become an travel company. Offering all sorts at every destination you fly to from hotels, Car hire, nile cruises to accomodation only and transfers which all adds as extra revenue ontop of all the a/c lease's, Global holidays/Flyglobespan and MOD contracts.
Plus the globespan colours just look so much better!
Don't forget PM used the hedging excuse against Ryanairs MO aswell so it won't be long before Flyglobespan and Jet2 are in the same boat with the mortgage payments (as you put it) soon to be put up!
In the case of jet3 (damm 2,3 next to each other) there are shareholders to cosider but at GSM theres no shareholders just one man Tom Dalrymyple who has ultimate control over the airline owning 100% last year he made a 13million loss and he didn't show one bit of worry because the airline is already back on track to profit.
Though the long-haul market from Scotland is limited it works for GSM there loads for each flight are around 90-100% full to SFB and same from the UK to Canada. Now they have a bigger share of the market in certain UK airports because of the collapse of ZOOM.
I think the strategy as you put it a Travel company trying to become an airline works the better way around than an airline trying to become an travel company. Offering all sorts at every destination you fly to from hotels, Car hire, nile cruises to accomodation only and transfers which all adds as extra revenue ontop of all the a/c lease's, Global holidays/Flyglobespan and MOD contracts.
Plus the globespan colours just look so much better!
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"Globespan colours look so much better"! in your dreams hun! you cant get better than Jet2 colours! one of the best around and will be for years too come! i can see GSM going tits up b4 LS, there is just no competition! 