BMI
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New bmi Routes
My comments are from a 'would like' rather than potentially viable point of view. I would love to see bmi compete against BA/Delta on a LHR-ATL route. I have travelled with both BA & bmi and feel the on board service with bmi is far superior, especially in 'the business'. BA load factor, especially in the summer, always seems to be very very good. Overbooked in economy, world traveller and usually full in club. Apologies if I have the cabin descriptions wrong 
What are the thoughts from those of you in the know!!!!
What are the thoughts from those of you in the know!!!!
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Really cant see BMI launching an MCO from LHR, the LON - MCO/SFB route is already very well served with VS having upto 3x daily flights from LGW, BA 1x daily, numerous charters to SFB and the connections with US, UA, AA, MP, NW, DL, FI, CO, AC etc.
NYC and BOS are prob a dead cert as no Star carriers serve this direct from LHR
NYC and BOS are prob a dead cert as no Star carriers serve this direct from LHR
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Open skies could shut local routes
For a better idea of what may really happen this item is in todays Observer gives a view of bmi plans after open skies.
MR120
MR120
Whitehall sources have indicated that the deal, which allows all EU carriers to fly to the US, will mean some will switch capacity from domestic routes to the US, 'squeezing out' links to UK regions.
Government officials are concerned airlines such as BMI will switch their Heathrow take-off and landing slots from routes serving the regions to US routes in search of higher revenues.
Government officials are concerned airlines such as BMI will switch their Heathrow take-off and landing slots from routes serving the regions to US routes in search of higher revenues.
BMI chief executive Nigel Turner said he expected to switch domestic routes to the US when the 'open skies' deal comes into effect next spring. He said BMI is likely to start with three flights a day, possibly to Chicago, Charlotte, North Carolina or New York. BMI plans to buy another three Airbus A330 planes to service the routes. The airline is looking to expand US routes in future.
Turner said: 'Inevitably there will be some reduction in short-haul flying' and added that increases to air passenger duty, which is levied on each take-off and landing in the UK, would mean UK regional routes would be the most likely to be re-allocated.
He added that BMI would look to reduce business-class fares across the Atlantic by some 10 per cent and ruled out any sale of its Heathrow slots.
Turner said: 'Inevitably there will be some reduction in short-haul flying' and added that increases to air passenger duty, which is levied on each take-off and landing in the UK, would mean UK regional routes would be the most likely to be re-allocated.
He added that BMI would look to reduce business-class fares across the Atlantic by some 10 per cent and ruled out any sale of its Heathrow slots.
I'm not sure I'd say that it will be the "killing of them" as I think that's a bit melodramatic. However, if rumours are true that bmi has sold all of BMed's slots to BA as part of the price for BA's short-term assent to the deal, then they will probably need to rob five or six short-haul slots a day to keep the BMed network flying; and then another three for their transatlantic aspirations.
That's nine a day. One can't help but think that this doesn't look like good news for the Embraer-operated routes ex LHR like TeesSide and Hannover, which would presumably be the first ones to be axed.
That's nine a day. One can't help but think that this doesn't look like good news for the Embraer-operated routes ex LHR like TeesSide and Hannover, which would presumably be the first ones to be axed.
Err no - bmi already have full control of BMed and the routes including the bilateral clearances to fly to places like Iran, Kazakhstan, Russia etc will be operated under bmi branding from October. However, bmi has sold some (if not all) of the runway slots at Heathrow originally held by BMed to British Airways. It needed BA's agreement for BMed to continue operating the routes as a BA franchisee for Summer 2007 (there is a change of ownership clause in franchise agreements which gives BA the right to terminate ASAP if the ownership of a franchisee passes into "unfriendly" hands) and the price of getting that agreement was apparently selling a load of LHR slots to BA.
The BMed routes are therefore passing to bmi, but that doesn't automatically mean that the Heathrow slots currently used to fly them will follow.
The BMed routes are therefore passing to bmi, but that doesn't automatically mean that the Heathrow slots currently used to fly them will follow.
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I like the bit about 3 more A330s, could this be them finally getting back the Emirates one, as well as two more? I doubt it like, they'll probably convert 3 of the 4 A332 options they have, although I doubt that as well, as they have probably expired, so, will they purchase 3 new ones, or source 3 second hand ones? I would have thought the second hand A330 market would be almost non-existant.
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If BMI sold the BMed slots to BA, what exactly did BMI buy and why didn't BA just asset strip BMed themselves? After all nearly everything of BMed is leased therefore the main things that BMed have are established routes (albeit quite thin on certain ones), crews (again thinning with the prospect of operating 4 sector days) and the slots. Therefore unless they resold the slots on for a significant amount more than they acquired the company for, the deal seems uneconomical for BMI
The main benefit for bmi appears to be access to BMed's markets under the restrictive arrangements in place between the UK and countries like Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan etc. For example, UK carriers can only offer seven flights per week to Baku, three to Almaty etc - and BMed holds the full quota of rights available, which means that no other UK airline can enter the routes and compete with them.
BA would have almost certainly faced an OFT / Takeover Panel enquiry if it had bought BMed itself. In this way, it has obtained what it really wants - more LHR slots - without needing to go through any of the hassle of regulatory clearances for the deal.
BMed slots do indeed belong to bmi at the moment, but there is nothing to stop them selling them onwards at any time to suit. Doing so has no bearing on the routes and aircraft - for example, you could quite happily use former BMed route rights, aircraft and crews to operate a daily service to Tehran using a bmi runway slot previously used for LHR-Paris or something like that.
BA would have almost certainly faced an OFT / Takeover Panel enquiry if it had bought BMed itself. In this way, it has obtained what it really wants - more LHR slots - without needing to go through any of the hassle of regulatory clearances for the deal.
BMed slots do indeed belong to bmi at the moment, but there is nothing to stop them selling them onwards at any time to suit. Doing so has no bearing on the routes and aircraft - for example, you could quite happily use former BMed route rights, aircraft and crews to operate a daily service to Tehran using a bmi runway slot previously used for LHR-Paris or something like that.
Your choice to ignore the comments and I don't see what is idiotic about them. You and I have had previous exchanges before on this site about bmi slots, and I don't think I've been wrong (yet) on this subject. That said, there is always a first time. Can I suggest that you ask Nigel Turner whether there is any deal (either already complete or in the offing) to sell any/all BMed Heathrow slots to BA and let me know his answer?
The route rights were the key thing that bmi wanted from BMed. bmi already has enough LHR slots and the deal with BA will offset a large part of the funding that bmi had to inject into BMed at the time of the deal's completion. It is actually quite a smart way forward for bmi and I can't see any grounds for being critical of its actions.
The route rights were the key thing that bmi wanted from BMed. bmi already has enough LHR slots and the deal with BA will offset a large part of the funding that bmi had to inject into BMed at the time of the deal's completion. It is actually quite a smart way forward for bmi and I can't see any grounds for being critical of its actions.
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Flightrider
OK hands up, that was very harsh. But I was tired and was half way through my third malty ale.
No time now to post a full reply but I do get annoyed when people dress up speculation as fact.
But please accept my apologies for the tone of my post.
OK hands up, that was very harsh. But I was tired and was half way through my third malty ale.
No time now to post a full reply but I do get annoyed when people dress up speculation as fact.
But please accept my apologies for the tone of my post.
They are apparently still thinking about SOU but other things might overtake that on the priority list of things to do.
An article has just appeared in the Times Online to say that bmi has apparently sold 51 weekly Heathrow slots to BA for £30m.
It is rather a coincidence on two fronts:
51 is exactly the number of weekly slots held by BMed at Heathrow this summer.
The purchase price of £30m bears a striking similarity to the amount that bmi paid for BMed.
An article has just appeared in the Times Online to say that bmi has apparently sold 51 weekly Heathrow slots to BA for £30m.
It is rather a coincidence on two fronts:
51 is exactly the number of weekly slots held by BMed at Heathrow this summer.
The purchase price of £30m bears a striking similarity to the amount that bmi paid for BMed.
Last edited by Flightrider; 30th Mar 2007 at 12:20. Reason: Updated infor
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Press froth or what?
Flightrider, I have also seen the times on line article,this is just one of a number of bmi related items in the press at the moment as interest in LHR operations post open skies takes hold.The SAS stake in bmi and what they may do with it is also doing the rounds in the press today.
On the other hand there has also been a press item claiming that bmi are talking to Varig about buying up some of the LHR slots that they hold in a grey market trade off.
Or that bmi is going to cut back some of the domestic operations into LHR to free up LH slots for 3 new routes to the U.S in Spring 2008
So all in all the next few weeks will be a bit of a rollercoaster ride as the industry takes it all in.
But by Spring 2008 at LHR all change, I just hope for all at bmi its for the better.
MR120
On the other hand there has also been a press item claiming that bmi are talking to Varig about buying up some of the LHR slots that they hold in a grey market trade off.
Or that bmi is going to cut back some of the domestic operations into LHR to free up LH slots for 3 new routes to the U.S in Spring 2008
So all in all the next few weeks will be a bit of a rollercoaster ride as the industry takes it all in.
But by Spring 2008 at LHR all change, I just hope for all at bmi its for the better.
MR120