MANSTON - 4
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Infratil Info
This is a quote from Infratil's web site on the Manston FAQ's. I think this was posted when they first took over but interesting even then they were quoting losses for 3-4 years
"What are the short term financial prospects for KIA?
Because of KIA's administration, it has no current freight or passenger business. It will take some time for these markets to be developed. Infratil has a long term view on KIA and is prepared to absorb operating losses for 3 to 4 years."
http://www.infratil.com/kent_interna...rt_faqs.htm#q6
MDIS
"What are the short term financial prospects for KIA?
Because of KIA's administration, it has no current freight or passenger business. It will take some time for these markets to be developed. Infratil has a long term view on KIA and is prepared to absorb operating losses for 3 to 4 years."
http://www.infratil.com/kent_interna...rt_faqs.htm#q6
MDIS
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Infratil's December report for KIA-M..
Kent International handled 3,052 tonnes of freight during December - yet another record month for the airport since acquisition, and the first time the 3,000 tonne barrier has been broken in a single month. December is traditionally a very strong month for fresh produce exports, but the 2006 volume is more than double the December 2005 volume of 1,428 tonnes.
Brockmans, a Kent-based travel agent, announced during the month that they will be based on-site at Kent International
in 2007. Brockmans will be selling Kent Escapes and Cosmos holidays and flights from Kent International, while also providing a complete service as they do at other branches.
Brockmans, a Kent-based travel agent, announced during the month that they will be based on-site at Kent International
in 2007. Brockmans will be selling Kent Escapes and Cosmos holidays and flights from Kent International, while also providing a complete service as they do at other branches.
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MANSTON - 4
We are going to have one more shot at having an adult discussion of Manston. If the normal suspects start their childish sniping yet again they will be banned from this forum. Last warning.
On this thread, more than any other it seems, obeying this simple rule may be the only means of thread survival: If you use another posters name within your post it is highly likely that you are either sniping or making a full-on personal attack.
Cheers,
The Mods
On this thread, more than any other it seems, obeying this simple rule may be the only means of thread survival: If you use another posters name within your post it is highly likely that you are either sniping or making a full-on personal attack.
Cheers,
The Mods
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Had a look at the "Sheffield City Airport" thread today. I have little knowledge of this airport, but the thread suggests a few interesting similarities to MSE.
Sheffield appears to have a declared close-by urban catchment of around 1.5 million people. MSE similar figure, although not so geographically close.
Sheffield reckoned to suffer from being too close to an established international facility - MSE likewise.
Both airports doggedly supported by the local authority.
Both on approx 10 - year deadline.
Also, Sheffield reckoned to be eventually destroyed by the arrival of a relative newcomer (Robin Hood)... MSE may well suffer the same fate at the hands of Lydd.
Sheffield appears to have a declared close-by urban catchment of around 1.5 million people. MSE similar figure, although not so geographically close.
Sheffield reckoned to suffer from being too close to an established international facility - MSE likewise.
Both airports doggedly supported by the local authority.
Both on approx 10 - year deadline.
Also, Sheffield reckoned to be eventually destroyed by the arrival of a relative newcomer (Robin Hood)... MSE may well suffer the same fate at the hands of Lydd.
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OK back to discussion -
Had lots of reinvestment in the RFFS from Infratil recently with Watches being
re-established to provide ICAO category 6 12hrs daily 365 a year.
The Watches are aimed at supplying ICAO 8 from May to October if all goes well from Cosmos. After that we would be able to provide ICAO 7 at all operating times.
Those in the business will realise what permanent 7 means to most low cost operators. I.E. we are ready now
Had lots of reinvestment in the RFFS from Infratil recently with Watches being
re-established to provide ICAO category 6 12hrs daily 365 a year.
The Watches are aimed at supplying ICAO 8 from May to October if all goes well from Cosmos. After that we would be able to provide ICAO 7 at all operating times.
Those in the business will realise what permanent 7 means to most low cost operators. I.E. we are ready now
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Sheffield to Doncaster 21m
Sheffield to Manch 40m
Manston to Gatwick 81m
Manston to Stansted 96m
Manston runway 2752m
Sheffield runway 1200 m
Would you like me to go on ?
Discussion = good
Making stuff up = Bad
P.s not sheffield bashing BTW , hope it all works out ok in the end guys and gals
Sheffield to Manch 40m
Manston to Gatwick 81m
Manston to Stansted 96m
Manston runway 2752m
Sheffield runway 1200 m
Would you like me to go on ?
Discussion = good
Making stuff up = Bad
P.s not sheffield bashing BTW , hope it all works out ok in the end guys and gals
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If Manston are serious about attracting more freight operators, they will have to invest in better and larger freight handling facilities/handling aids, at present they can just about build a DC8 load in the BIP without it being maxed out.
At present the hi-loader is "fed" with pallets by a large forklift with a roller slave pallet fitted which is not ideal.
At present the hi-loader is "fed" with pallets by a large forklift with a roller slave pallet fitted which is not ideal.
Sheffield was first opened several years before the former RAF Finningley became a commercial airport, so this figure isn't really relevant.
However, I have to agree. Sheffield is hardly comparable to MSE. By rights, it should have worked, with a huge urban population within 30-45 minutes drive. But as you say, runway length was always going to be a constraint. And I believe there were always question marks about the owners commitment? Sheffield had effectively failed as a civil airport long before Doncaster/Sheffield opened for business.
However, I have to agree. Sheffield is hardly comparable to MSE. By rights, it should have worked, with a huge urban population within 30-45 minutes drive. But as you say, runway length was always going to be a constraint. And I believe there were always question marks about the owners commitment? Sheffield had effectively failed as a civil airport long before Doncaster/Sheffield opened for business.
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Freight Turn - around
Undiemole
I hear what you are saying, but it is the very fact that this operation provides a fst turn-around for MK & Egypt as to why it's so succesful.
Granted in an ideal world, it would loaded off onto dollies then onto a roller bed system to feed the trucks.
But Manston isnt set up like that yet, so the fork lift truck and slave pallet rule at the moment all the time it gives a fast offload.
I do agree that on the freight side, space is paramount, once a 747 build has been completed, there is hardly room to sneeze in there.
But i did see the surveyors on Echo the other day looking at putting more concrete down i hear, and negotiations still ongoing to get Hangar 3 back for freight builds.
I hear what you are saying, but it is the very fact that this operation provides a fst turn-around for MK & Egypt as to why it's so succesful.
Granted in an ideal world, it would loaded off onto dollies then onto a roller bed system to feed the trucks.
But Manston isnt set up like that yet, so the fork lift truck and slave pallet rule at the moment all the time it gives a fast offload.
I do agree that on the freight side, space is paramount, once a 747 build has been completed, there is hardly room to sneeze in there.
But i did see the surveyors on Echo the other day looking at putting more concrete down i hear, and negotiations still ongoing to get Hangar 3 back for freight builds.
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Thanks for that, what is hangar 3 being used for at mo ? although that in itself would not be a great improvement.
Problem with slave plt on large forks is that load on the pallet can move when being transferred(shunted) from docking and also when loaded onto hiloader, which is not ideal.
Problem with slave plt on large forks is that load on the pallet can move when being transferred(shunted) from docking and also when loaded onto hiloader, which is not ideal.
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Sheffield cf MSE.
Yes LGW is 81 miles from MSE. However, Manston's declared catchment population do not all live on the airfield, they live throughout Kent and beyond, almost all of them to the west, so that mileage is immaterial.
The London airports definitely impact on KIA catchment.(I should know. I use LHR all the time.)
According to the Sheffield thread, Manchester impacted on them in a similar way.
The runway length is different, but as long as it can launch a servicable passenger jet, the average punter doesn't care. (Some members of my family did use this airport, and declared it perfectly OK)
I have no doubt the differences outweigh the similarities, but the similarities may be of interest to future aviation historians. Perhap if only beacause it could be said of both airports (to quote Andy)-
"By rights, it should have worked".
Yes LGW is 81 miles from MSE. However, Manston's declared catchment population do not all live on the airfield, they live throughout Kent and beyond, almost all of them to the west, so that mileage is immaterial.
The London airports definitely impact on KIA catchment.(I should know. I use LHR all the time.)
According to the Sheffield thread, Manchester impacted on them in a similar way.
The runway length is different, but as long as it can launch a servicable passenger jet, the average punter doesn't care. (Some members of my family did use this airport, and declared it perfectly OK)
I have no doubt the differences outweigh the similarities, but the similarities may be of interest to future aviation historians. Perhap if only beacause it could be said of both airports (to quote Andy)-
"By rights, it should have worked".
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Foamer
This all sounds like positive news.
Was this part of the ongoing investment Infratil have been talking about?
I had heard that there was an operational issue holding back the development. Is this it or are there others?
MDIS
Was this part of the ongoing investment Infratil have been talking about?
I had heard that there was an operational issue holding back the development. Is this it or are there others?
MDIS
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Air Atlanta have been at MSE for many years now, albeit in different forms and with different aircraft.
They mainly use it for 747 refurbs and maintenance.
Echo Apron is looking to be expanded to allow more freight aircraft to be handled.
At present it is only possible to handle 2 at a time on the apron.
They mainly use it for 747 refurbs and maintenance.
Echo Apron is looking to be expanded to allow more freight aircraft to be handled.
At present it is only possible to handle 2 at a time on the apron.
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Deedave one problem Sheffield had to start with was that single engined aircraft were not allowed to operate into there. This significantly reduced the amount of revenue they could recieve. Another problem was/is that Sheffield has a small runway, this means only small aircraft much like those that operate in to LCY can use the place. This coupled with the fact that Sheffield is towards the center of the country meant that there were already good surface transport links to the city to the ret of the country before you take into account any airports close by. The whole venture was a cock up all for a few extra hundred feet of runway. Manston on the otherhand has got a good length of runway and so there is always going to be the chance that a low cost will come in and make a go of things. Manston may have problems with catchment overlaps with the London airports but at least the infastructure at Manston is capable of supporting what the public wants. Sheffield was never allowed to.
I think that's a fair assesment Onion. There's an interesting article on Wikipedia about Sheffield Airport, which basically concludes that they planned it wrong from the very beginning. At just 1,200M the runway is even shorter than Southampton. I'm not sure if any regional jets could be accomodated on a runway that length, but 737 / 320 sized aircraft were certainly a non starter, so the holiday charter and lo-co scheduled market, for which there must be an enormous demand in that area, didn't get a look in. What a waste.
The viability of passenger operations out of Manston has yet to be proven, but as you say, at least the infrastructure is there.
The viability of passenger operations out of Manston has yet to be proven, but as you say, at least the infrastructure is there.
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Seems a shame.
As you know, EUjet were operating F100's - capacity 108- at MSE.
Were EGSY unable to take aircraft of this capacity?
PS - The reason I ask is that my family stated that the Sheffield a/c they were on was of reasonable "holiday" size, but was worryingly empty (similar to many MSE experiences).
As you know, EUjet were operating F100's - capacity 108- at MSE.
Were EGSY unable to take aircraft of this capacity?
PS - The reason I ask is that my family stated that the Sheffield a/c they were on was of reasonable "holiday" size, but was worryingly empty (similar to many MSE experiences).
Last edited by deedave; 18th Jan 2007 at 16:21. Reason: PS