DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 4
Join Date: Jul 2003
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The simple fact of the matter is that BMI have the timings wrong on the LHR service. The business man, like mmeman states will use the train with the current timings on the route. I know of people who have used the flight upto 3/4 times a month who now either have to rush into the center of london or have to use the train, genrally they use the train. Remember if you need to be in the center of London before 10am there is only one sure way of doing it and thats the train (ok power line failures etc aside). Not only that the minimum time door to door from where I live to the center of London is around 2hrs 50mins on the plane if you leave checking in till the last minute, run for the train from LHR to center of London etc... and 2hrs 40mins on the train including drive to station etc. Ok I'm in the position that I live to the west of both the airport and Darlington but the train does compete no matter what anyone says. The annoying facts for the LHR service are that it is capable of around 16,000-20,000 pax a month with correct pricing and correct timings with a good frequency. I'm not suggesting a low cost operation just a return to the timings of say 8 to 10 years ago without the messing around of the schedules every 6 months and say 4 return flights a day with the correct equipment (A319/320) and a return of business class as well. Its not much to ask for. The connections through LHR have also been effected by the later timings making early morning state side flights harder to connect to. It is no coincidence that the AMS has increased since the LHR timings have been played with! So the argument that the reason why the flight is suffering is because the service is not operated by BA is not accurate. Another fact maybe causing a drop in pax numbers is the fact that business today does not need to be face to face anymore but is now done electronically, either over the phone or computer so there is less need to travel. This is one argument that i'm not comfortable with but as i'm trying to be even I have decided to include it.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Onion , Can't disagree with most of what you say bar one point. I do not accept that the withdrawal of business class in what remains a 'non Loco' operation has any material effect upon load factors. There are solutions to this, one of which is operated by the BA 'Y' NCL-LHR & that is to reserve the front few rows of the aircraft for VIP's, premium & frequent flyers. This solution would not appear to cause BA any further issues.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Totally agree with MMEman and Onion-I think what is at the heart of the MME-LHR problem is the following:
timings-need to a) stay consistent to help build up frequent passengers using the service as there is no doubt there IS the demand out there b) be attractive to both business and transfer pax. (shouldn't be too hard to work more closely with Star Alliance partners and maybe use pax stats to see what are the most popular transfer routes i.e VS to JFK or wherever
equipment-its been touched on but sadly are the days of a domestic non lo-co A320/b737 operation behind us? Would there be anything wrong in bmi shuffling a few embraers about so that they served the more 'light' domestic routes as has been played with from MME and LBA. Then the 48 pax that Uklad travelled with goes from a 25% load factor to near 100% and the A320s can work the more denser routes.
advertising-still pitiful really. yes the Tynes Tees ads are a plus but NO mention of the fact its the MME-LHR route theyre advertising!!
I think what the one thing that is needed here is CONSISTENCY....sadly something bmi seem incapable of across their business.
timings-need to a) stay consistent to help build up frequent passengers using the service as there is no doubt there IS the demand out there b) be attractive to both business and transfer pax. (shouldn't be too hard to work more closely with Star Alliance partners and maybe use pax stats to see what are the most popular transfer routes i.e VS to JFK or wherever
equipment-its been touched on but sadly are the days of a domestic non lo-co A320/b737 operation behind us? Would there be anything wrong in bmi shuffling a few embraers about so that they served the more 'light' domestic routes as has been played with from MME and LBA. Then the 48 pax that Uklad travelled with goes from a 25% load factor to near 100% and the A320s can work the more denser routes.
advertising-still pitiful really. yes the Tynes Tees ads are a plus but NO mention of the fact its the MME-LHR route theyre advertising!!
I think what the one thing that is needed here is CONSISTENCY....sadly something bmi seem incapable of across their business.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near MME, England, UK
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Yes, timings are a major problem on the London Heathrow route, but the real reason the route has flopped to such extents as it has, is because of the knock-on effects of the WW pull-out. I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this sooner. I knew there would be severe knock-on effects, but I didn't know it would be so bad - and so quick to happen.
Like MME4eva said, yes, the Tyne Tees adverts are a good thing, but only if they state the route being advertised. It's the same with GSM, they plastered hundreds of advertisements across hundreds of Arriva and Stagecoach buses all over the north east, but not one mentioned that the destinations being advertised are from MME. You'd think common sense would tell the advertising people to display the origin and destination airports on the actual ads?!
Like MME4eva said, yes, the Tyne Tees adverts are a good thing, but only if they state the route being advertised. It's the same with GSM, they plastered hundreds of advertisements across hundreds of Arriva and Stagecoach buses all over the north east, but not one mentioned that the destinations being advertised are from MME. You'd think common sense would tell the advertising people to display the origin and destination airports on the actual ads?!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Darlington
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bmi LHR
Looks like the bmi flights to LHR remain at 4 daily for the summer, but annoyingly (for me anyway!), the 4th flight is the 21.50 departure from MME and first flight from MME is at 07.55.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Middlesbrough U.K.
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I wonder how many of the general public think that there are no flights from MME to LHR since the airline pulled out of their other routes. Several people have said to me that there are no flights to LHR now.
I've had to correct them.
I've had to correct them.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Exactly Lancelot37! I've had to correct people too, I'd go as far as to say about 90% of people assume London Heathrow went along with all the other bmibaby routes. Well annoying.
Just playing devils advocate, but if Open Skies goes through as it is at present, do bmi want MME-LHR to be a success?
Lot easier for them to switch the slots to some lucrative trans-atlantic service if nobodies using the service or knows it's operating...
Lot easier for them to switch the slots to some lucrative trans-atlantic service if nobodies using the service or knows it's operating...
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Middlesbrough U.K.
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Wasn't it bmi who insisted on the name change from Teesside International Airport to Durham Tees Valley? Where is the Valley?
Such a silly name and no-one recognises it. It's no where near Durham. Try booking a ticket from PER to Durham Tees Valley and they say that it doesn't exist. Ask for Teeside International and it comes up on their computer.
Time to change the name again as it hasn't worked.
Such a silly name and no-one recognises it. It's no where near Durham. Try booking a ticket from PER to Durham Tees Valley and they say that it doesn't exist. Ask for Teeside International and it comes up on their computer.
Time to change the name again as it hasn't worked.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Teesside, UK
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Well well well, looking at the bmi schedule for the summer it shows the first flight up from LHR, and the last one back down (330/345), as an ER4, which arrives at MME at 0730, departing at 2150......are they planning some more routes from MME operated by regional? I looked at the schedule for May, 2 separate weeks and it was the same....do they know something we don't?
If they are planning some more routes, then it would need to be probably around 3 returns a day to fill one aircraft up, and in that case JER has got to be a probable one. For the other 2, well ABZ and AMS spring to mind as possibilities.
If they are planning some more routes, then it would need to be probably around 3 returns a day to fill one aircraft up, and in that case JER has got to be a probable one. For the other 2, well ABZ and AMS spring to mind as possibilities.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near MME, England, UK
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I think that would be logical. They should go for LCC routes that GSM aren't likely to touch.
If they hadn't pulled the CDG base, that would have been a dead cert, BFS could be a good one too.
Perhaps we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves here though?
If they hadn't pulled the CDG base, that would have been a dead cert, BFS could be a good one too.
Perhaps we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves here though?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Darlington
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Name Change
I certainly do not believe the name should be changed back to Teesside, it has taken this long to change the road signs to Durham Tees Valley! The reasoning behind it, which I believe is sound reasoning, is to make it sound more attractive to increase the number of inbound passengers and I think it was coupled with tourism organisations using the term too. If you actually look around so many more companies are using the 'Tees Valley' name, and the welcome signs on the roads to Darlington say 'Gateway to the Tees Valley'. It is certainly not just the aiport using the term. And this idea that it is no where near Durham, who said Durham City? The airport is actually half in the county of Durham, so why shouldn't the airport be called Durham Tees Valley. It could be such a strong brand, with the St George Flag too. I still think the airport still needs to educate a lot of people though that the name has changed. It can be very confusing, cabin crew calling the airport Durham Teesside, pilots still call it Teesside in cabin announcements, departure bords still saying Teesside (Dublin and Gatwick were examples). Still work to do, but no way should it be changed back.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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mmeteesside
Read my post #50. All LHR services will be operated by Regional ER4's.
The 330 turns round as the 331,as do the 332/333, 338/339 and 340/345.
The same aircraft ops the 330/1/2 & 3 then another aircraft will op the 338/9/40 & 45.
The Monday afternoon REU charter will op with the LBA based A320 on a 'W' pattern I.E. LBA-REU-MME-REU-LBA.
Read my post #50. All LHR services will be operated by Regional ER4's.
The 330 turns round as the 331,as do the 332/333, 338/339 and 340/345.
The same aircraft ops the 330/1/2 & 3 then another aircraft will op the 338/9/40 & 45.
The Monday afternoon REU charter will op with the LBA based A320 on a 'W' pattern I.E. LBA-REU-MME-REU-LBA.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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We'll disagree, but that's life. The name change has done nothing but cause confusion which you admit in your posting.
I'm currently in Australia for three months. I've been searching for flights and connections from MME for friends out here and the frustration is unbeleivable. At least Tesside International was known, and still is, throughout the world.
Durham Tees Valley - DTV - you're telling me!
I'm currently in Australia for three months. I've been searching for flights and connections from MME for friends out here and the frustration is unbeleivable. At least Tesside International was known, and still is, throughout the world.
Durham Tees Valley - DTV - you're telling me!
Join Date: Jul 2006
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So are we saying the A319 has been dropped on the MME-LHR service? That's a big blow if so but i suppose the airline are cutting their cloth accordingly after poor performance even if they themselves are at the root of that problem!
as for bmi regional starting other services i very much doubt this happening as:
AMS/ABZ-logical routes but already served by T3 and KL
CDG-could have been sensible but non starter as theyve pulled out...
having said that this is bmi were talking about so i'm going for SOU via CPT!!
as for bmi regional starting other services i very much doubt this happening as:
AMS/ABZ-logical routes but already served by T3 and KL
CDG-could have been sensible but non starter as theyve pulled out...
having said that this is bmi were talking about so i'm going for SOU via CPT!!
On the current schedule, it looks as though all four LHR-MME-LHR flights can be operated on the same aircraft:
BD330 departs LHR 06:30 (arrive MME 07:30)
BD331 arrives LHR 09:15 (depart MME 07:55)
BD332 departs LHR 09:50 (arrive MME 10:55)
BD333 arrives LHR 12:40 (depart MME 11:25)
BD338 departs LHR 17:00 (arrives MME 18:05)
BD339 arrives LHR 19:45 (departs MME 18:40)
BD340 departs LHR 20:25 (arrives MME 21:25)
BD345 arrives LHR 22:55 (departs MME 21:50)
I may be missing something, but this must be operated by the same aircraft - an Embraer. It would be illogical to fly an Embraer up on the BD330, park it in MME all day and then operate back on BD345, then using an Airbus to operate the 331/332/333/338/339/340.
So yes, same as LHR-ABZ and LHR-HAJ, it looks as though the MME route will be an all-Embraer operation for this summer.
BD330 departs LHR 06:30 (arrive MME 07:30)
BD331 arrives LHR 09:15 (depart MME 07:55)
BD332 departs LHR 09:50 (arrive MME 10:55)
BD333 arrives LHR 12:40 (depart MME 11:25)
BD338 departs LHR 17:00 (arrives MME 18:05)
BD339 arrives LHR 19:45 (departs MME 18:40)
BD340 departs LHR 20:25 (arrives MME 21:25)
BD345 arrives LHR 22:55 (departs MME 21:50)
I may be missing something, but this must be operated by the same aircraft - an Embraer. It would be illogical to fly an Embraer up on the BD330, park it in MME all day and then operate back on BD345, then using an Airbus to operate the 331/332/333/338/339/340.
So yes, same as LHR-ABZ and LHR-HAJ, it looks as though the MME route will be an all-Embraer operation for this summer.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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An extra Thurs flight to AGP with GSM has been put on sale. They are really building on their base at MME. Wonder if they'll keep the 2 A/C there fo W07. THeir W07 schedule is due out the end of this month/beginning of next.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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I see the works on taxiways Charlie and Delta come to an end today, with attention switching to the Alpha taxiway until 28th March. Anyone know what these works are for, presumably something to do with lighting judging by the company who are involved?!
Looking at amadeus it is starting to show more ERJ's being used in the LHR schedule - and I think 4x ER4 is exactly what we need to get the route stabilised. bmi are lacking something in the 70-90 seat range that would be perfect for LHR-MME.
KLM on the other hand are keeping 3x daily (again) but upgrading the teatime 1537/1538 to a F100, staying F70 on the other 2 daily flights.
Anyone know if Eastern are planning anything on the ABZ route? Seems to be doing very well, with a number of flights completely full, such as todays 587, tomorrows 587 and 589, and Fridays 587 are all full as they are not available to book.
Looking at amadeus it is starting to show more ERJ's being used in the LHR schedule - and I think 4x ER4 is exactly what we need to get the route stabilised. bmi are lacking something in the 70-90 seat range that would be perfect for LHR-MME.
KLM on the other hand are keeping 3x daily (again) but upgrading the teatime 1537/1538 to a F100, staying F70 on the other 2 daily flights.
Anyone know if Eastern are planning anything on the ABZ route? Seems to be doing very well, with a number of flights completely full, such as todays 587, tomorrows 587 and 589, and Fridays 587 are all full as they are not available to book.
Last edited by mmeteesside; 7th Mar 2007 at 18:30. Reason: Remove GSM comment due no extra flight!