DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 4
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At last-Brilliant Marketing
Paarmo International-its a winner!! The IQs of low cost punters and the expertise of travel agents combined might just work? Sell Seal Sands as quality destination up and coming with free condoms(as per a previous contributer)and people may just fall for the new Majorcan(NE) destination...at least for one season!! Even the marketing deartment at DTV might be convinced???Could pay the leccie bills for the runway lights?
(its a joke-honestly)
(its a joke-honestly)
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Even if this does go through, as you said, bmi won't do it, not necessarily because we're taking them to court, but because they've already found new use for our slots
pug The airports side actualy comes under Peel Airports, in the Peel Holdings umbrella.
Peel Airports = "Peel Holdings (Airports) Ltd" this being a wholly owned company within the Peel Holdings Limited group of comapnies!
Last edited by skyman771; 25th Mar 2009 at 13:35.
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If the Government do protect the regional airports links to Heathrow then I would expect a number of slots will be taken for these routes and the routes offered on a PSO basis and there would then be a competitive tender process where airlines bid for the PSO contracts, similar to what happens in Scotland and Ireland. Whether bmi would bid for any of these remains to be seen, but there are a few other airlines which I'm sure would be interested, such as Loganair, Flybe and Eastern.
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mmetesside
I really wouldn't build up your hopes too much on this, political rhetoric ! "...that they will look at measures to safeguard.." says little and commits to bog all , (though sounds good!). It's all down to a failing government desperately trying not to further alienate it's voters ! Can you really believe that prior to the construction (if ever of R3) slots currently used by "heavy Jets" being given up for some Eastern, Loganair commuter prop. job ? If nothing else who is going to compensate BAA for lost pax revenues ?
I really wouldn't build up your hopes too much on this, political rhetoric ! "...that they will look at measures to safeguard.." says little and commits to bog all , (though sounds good!). It's all down to a failing government desperately trying not to further alienate it's voters ! Can you really believe that prior to the construction (if ever of R3) slots currently used by "heavy Jets" being given up for some Eastern, Loganair commuter prop. job ? If nothing else who is going to compensate BAA for lost pax revenues ?
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Pug "That is worrying considering Peels ruthlessness at developing land.
which brings us nicely round to the point I have made in all my previous posts
Peel Holdings acquired Teesside Airport for the ultimate purpose of development as either a major business /industrial park, or as a housing site.They envisaged a very healthy profit on the deal and are quite happy to sit around until the economic climate improves
You will see it happen in your lifetime, as ,sadly , will I
which brings us nicely round to the point I have made in all my previous posts
Peel Holdings acquired Teesside Airport for the ultimate purpose of development as either a major business /industrial park, or as a housing site.They envisaged a very healthy profit on the deal and are quite happy to sit around until the economic climate improves
You will see it happen in your lifetime, as ,sadly , will I
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They envisaged a very healthy profit on the deal and are quite happy to sit around until the economic climate improves
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As an "Outsider", but working at MACC [Manchester Radar], I am passing to MME (at the most) 4 inbound a/c per shift...plus the outbounds too of course.
DSA, get 3-4 ins and outs, whereas..
LBA busy, but "peaky" , NCL, "ticking over", but tfc on the up and as for HUY.... KLM, and the odd charter, and that's it.
I know that it's only March... but where is the chuffin' traffic?????
DSA, get 3-4 ins and outs, whereas..
LBA busy, but "peaky" , NCL, "ticking over", but tfc on the up and as for HUY.... KLM, and the odd charter, and that's it.
I know that it's only March... but where is the chuffin' traffic?????
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KLM
Heard today that an employee of a large company and regularly flies between MME and Oslo via Amsterdam, has been told he can't do this from September as KLM are stopping the service between MME and AMS...
This can't be true, can it?
Still on the website as bookable, so I have my doubts, but why would he be told this?
Someone please tell us some good news.
This can't be true, can it?
Still on the website as bookable, so I have my doubts, but why would he be told this?
Someone please tell us some good news.
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Bol
Does not matter what our Radar sees, it's the amount of IFR traffic that we handle in/out of said A/f. Yes, I know that Flight Refuelling/Calibrator operate from MME, and they "sometimes" work the Mil..but at the end of the day, the have X rotations to AMS and 2-6 Charters to the Costas, I honestly cannot see a "future" for them.....
But I am just an 'umble ATC'r...what do I know?
Does not matter what our Radar sees, it's the amount of IFR traffic that we handle in/out of said A/f. Yes, I know that Flight Refuelling/Calibrator operate from MME, and they "sometimes" work the Mil..but at the end of the day, the have X rotations to AMS and 2-6 Charters to the Costas, I honestly cannot see a "future" for them.....
But I am just an 'umble ATC'r...what do I know?
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Parsnip, old root vegetable, you are a natural born cynic.Peel actually have an airports division and I believe they genuinely wanted to run an airport operation. When they took over the future looked rosy and the profits endless.However, things have taken a turn for the worse and they are pumping money into the airports without any prospect of return in the forseeable future. Their problem was not in starting the airports division but who they have employed to run it.
Skyman stop being pretentious.Just because I fly on holiday does not make me any less of a soothsayer than you. I have also done more than my fair share of souless business flying as well and in fact have logged as many hours as most who are not employed in the flying business. My point was that the holiday companies are due a bumper harvest this summer and will as all companies do look to expand to show their shareholders they are getting value for money. This is where MME has to step in but on past form I don't hold out much hope.
Skyman stop being pretentious.Just because I fly on holiday does not make me any less of a soothsayer than you. I have also done more than my fair share of souless business flying as well and in fact have logged as many hours as most who are not employed in the flying business. My point was that the holiday companies are due a bumper harvest this summer and will as all companies do look to expand to show their shareholders they are getting value for money. This is where MME has to step in but on past form I don't hold out much hope.
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Can't see a 'bumper harvest' for the Holiday companies. It's more a question of demand falling by less than feared. There are fewer companies offering fewer holidays so it's hard to see that as an opportunity for airports. Also I suspect Winter 2009-10 will be very tough as people will be cutting back on additional holidays and it's easier to avoid the Euro in the Summer than the Winter.
oh, except on a Fri.
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Paarmo
I am I confess completely cynical about Peel Holdings. I am 100% convinced about the companies' future plans because I have observed what they do and how they operate, and because, without giving away more than is appropriate on an anonymous forum, I have had considerable experience of Developers in my time, and considerably more experience of watching big ideas on Teesside coming to nothing.
I have spent many happy hours flying in and out of the Airport, and started my affair with aviation with my nose pressed against the perimeter fence watching the Lightnings blow the grass off the strip in the sixties.
I would love nothing better than to see a full holiday programme this summer and decent scheduled services to a dozen or more major cities, I don't however believe that Peel share the same vision.
I am I confess completely cynical about Peel Holdings. I am 100% convinced about the companies' future plans because I have observed what they do and how they operate, and because, without giving away more than is appropriate on an anonymous forum, I have had considerable experience of Developers in my time, and considerably more experience of watching big ideas on Teesside coming to nothing.
I have spent many happy hours flying in and out of the Airport, and started my affair with aviation with my nose pressed against the perimeter fence watching the Lightnings blow the grass off the strip in the sixties.
I would love nothing better than to see a full holiday programme this summer and decent scheduled services to a dozen or more major cities, I don't however believe that Peel share the same vision.
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Parsnip
I too am a cynic, but back to basics & from where does your concern arise ? This redevelopment of land issue probably arose from mischievous postings on this thread "way back" & circumstantial evidence linked to events at Sheffield.
The problem with DTV is that your early cynicism is actually becoming more of a self fulfilling prophesy. As I have noted earlier Peel Holdings (Airports) Ltd "Peel" recorded a £10M loss ( Mar 08) on turnover of £50M i.e. 20% which depicts a serious mess even in 2007 prior to the current market downturn. I am unable to comment as to whether Peel have addressed this loss though given that the three major cost centers LPL, DCS & DTV continue to trade (in DTV's case with less revenue) in what has become a difficult market with falling pax. & rising costs for security & APD then eventually something has to give.
An obvious business scenario to stem losses without any comfort of external support is to reduce no. of cost centers & reallocate resources available i.e. address the issue of disposals to refinance ( £48M debt falling due within one year ). Now I can't believe that Peel have not looked into this, whether a partial or total disposal is possible & as to what investment would be effectively written off. My guess is that this is simply not a palatable option, & with political implications & other local factors then things have been allowed to drift on. Now this is purely my take on the situation, but it goes someway to explaining the apparent disinterest & indeed inability of Peel to contribute further capital at DTV for airport related projects.
In the end though something will have to give, that is, unless the optimism (and depth of pockets) of the Peel Holdings main board as to future prospects in continuing to provide finance for its loss making airports subsidiary, incorporates a lengthy period of time way beyond that viewed by the contributors on this thread.
I too am a cynic, but back to basics & from where does your concern arise ? This redevelopment of land issue probably arose from mischievous postings on this thread "way back" & circumstantial evidence linked to events at Sheffield.
The problem with DTV is that your early cynicism is actually becoming more of a self fulfilling prophesy. As I have noted earlier Peel Holdings (Airports) Ltd "Peel" recorded a £10M loss ( Mar 08) on turnover of £50M i.e. 20% which depicts a serious mess even in 2007 prior to the current market downturn. I am unable to comment as to whether Peel have addressed this loss though given that the three major cost centers LPL, DCS & DTV continue to trade (in DTV's case with less revenue) in what has become a difficult market with falling pax. & rising costs for security & APD then eventually something has to give.
An obvious business scenario to stem losses without any comfort of external support is to reduce no. of cost centers & reallocate resources available i.e. address the issue of disposals to refinance ( £48M debt falling due within one year ). Now I can't believe that Peel have not looked into this, whether a partial or total disposal is possible & as to what investment would be effectively written off. My guess is that this is simply not a palatable option, & with political implications & other local factors then things have been allowed to drift on. Now this is purely my take on the situation, but it goes someway to explaining the apparent disinterest & indeed inability of Peel to contribute further capital at DTV for airport related projects.
In the end though something will have to give, that is, unless the optimism (and depth of pockets) of the Peel Holdings main board as to future prospects in continuing to provide finance for its loss making airports subsidiary, incorporates a lengthy period of time way beyond that viewed by the contributors on this thread.
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Skyman
This is how I see it .
Peel came along at a time when the local authorities couldnt really afford to run the Airport any longer. Their bid was put in at a bargain basement rate on condition that the Taxpayer, i.e the government office , development agencies and what have you, put in cash and resources to match Peels investment and on the back of a grandiose plan to create a Freight Village similar to the earlier failed effort of a company called (I think) Moorfield Semley who have since disappeared from the radar.
Behind this was the cynical and shrewd reasoning in the Manchester Boardroom that should the aviation industry suffer a downturn here was a very large flat site which could easily be turned to a variety of uses.
We have now arrived at a situation where two locos have been ,seen and not conquered , and one of the 2 mainstay routes has ceased to operate after a couple of sucessful decades. Add to that what seems to be very little interest being shown by the "bucket and spade" operators and the installation of a "puppet management team" controlled from Manchester and you have all the signs of a business which is following Woolworths and the Dunfermiline building society.
Peel Holdings however still have a lump of estate which has roads, power and gas to it which, in the good times that will eventually follow the recession, can turn a very good profit.
This is how I see it .
Peel came along at a time when the local authorities couldnt really afford to run the Airport any longer. Their bid was put in at a bargain basement rate on condition that the Taxpayer, i.e the government office , development agencies and what have you, put in cash and resources to match Peels investment and on the back of a grandiose plan to create a Freight Village similar to the earlier failed effort of a company called (I think) Moorfield Semley who have since disappeared from the radar.
Behind this was the cynical and shrewd reasoning in the Manchester Boardroom that should the aviation industry suffer a downturn here was a very large flat site which could easily be turned to a variety of uses.
We have now arrived at a situation where two locos have been ,seen and not conquered , and one of the 2 mainstay routes has ceased to operate after a couple of sucessful decades. Add to that what seems to be very little interest being shown by the "bucket and spade" operators and the installation of a "puppet management team" controlled from Manchester and you have all the signs of a business which is following Woolworths and the Dunfermiline building society.
Peel Holdings however still have a lump of estate which has roads, power and gas to it which, in the good times that will eventually follow the recession, can turn a very good profit.
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Parsnip,
Yes I can accept all that you say, & indeed it may be that DTV as a cost centre has not, historically contributed a great amount on an annual basis to Peels trading loss, this perhaps being more down to finance costs due to the debt that has arisen elsewhere. As such then perhaps Peel are in a much stonger position than I have previously given them credit to be able to bide their time.
The thing that erks me the most is that Peel appear to have condoned the appointment of the most inappropriate, ill qualified & inexperienced motley crew of "non achievers" as ever assembled to run an airport anywhere with predictable consequences. That Peel appear to accommodate such poor management at DTV (even the board had a clear out last year !) is witnessed as they have moved the strategic positions over to Manchester, whilst leaving the
lunatics living in their own little world back at DTV to run the asylum.
Yes I can accept all that you say, & indeed it may be that DTV as a cost centre has not, historically contributed a great amount on an annual basis to Peels trading loss, this perhaps being more down to finance costs due to the debt that has arisen elsewhere. As such then perhaps Peel are in a much stonger position than I have previously given them credit to be able to bide their time.
The thing that erks me the most is that Peel appear to have condoned the appointment of the most inappropriate, ill qualified & inexperienced motley crew of "non achievers" as ever assembled to run an airport anywhere with predictable consequences. That Peel appear to accommodate such poor management at DTV (even the board had a clear out last year !) is witnessed as they have moved the strategic positions over to Manchester, whilst leaving the
lunatics living in their own little world back at DTV to run the asylum.