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CORK - 5

Old 28th Nov 2013, 07:48
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@EI-BUD - you're exactly right - the lack of t/a from Cork means the two are not comparable at all. In addition, Stobart ownership of both SEN and RE means there could be other factors at play (as opposed to pure commercial decision). Not saying that from knowledge of anything specific but it's a factor.
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 10:42
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@ Jack, is that definate about Newcastle? It is a pity if it is. As you say , Harps and "Shams" from now on, it will be a very boring place.
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Old 28th Nov 2013, 13:36
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@ Jack, is that definate about Newcastle? It is a pity if it is. As you say , Harps and "Shams" from now on, it will be a very boring place.
No longer bookable after the end of March, Jet2 are always miles ahead realising schedules there realising Winter 2014/2015 at the moment, no official confirmation but I could safely bet its gone. At least a few charters including Volotea next Summer, pity we went from a high of over 6 scheduled airlines to basically 2.
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Old 3rd Dec 2013, 17:23
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For anyone interested in the EI-REH incident in Cork back in May 2012 have a read of the final report from the AAIU, just shows how demanding a job flying is when tough conditions exist. Credit is most definitely due to the Commander after his immediate reaction following the bounce.

http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/fil...2013-016_0.pdf
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Old 3rd Dec 2013, 17:40
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A modest increase in the length of both runways at Cork would resolve a lot of issues there. Landed on 25 in a jet there a few years ago in a strong westerly, right on the numbers. No room for error.
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Old 3rd Dec 2013, 17:57
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A modest increase in the length of both runways at Cork would resolve a lot of issues there. Landed on 25 in a jet there a few years ago in a strong westerly, right on the numbers. No room for error.
I don't believe that's the issue at all, and the AAIU are of the same opinion. Basically it was the failure of Aer Arann to promptly get a landing check on a runway shorter than 1,500m for the newly promoted captain, and thus the AAIU have issued a safety recommendation for them to now do this at the earliest opportunity. In fact the captain remarked to the FO following the go around, ''If only I had 25 (referring to qualification to be able to land on Runway 25).'' Basically he had done everything he should have, and had he been able to land on 25 this would have been a non-event, the fact he had to increase his vApp to consider the wind conditions at the time and indeed as there was visible windshear on approach and gusts this led to the commander being +5 above the decided vApp which in turn with the wind gust from 240 degrees led to the bounce and incorrect interpretation they had touched down leading to a nose heavy landing and subsequent (immediate) go around. As has been said, the operator should have promptly given a check ride for runways shorter than 1,500m, (knowing that Cork suffers from these sorts of winds regularly and that it's the operators second largest point of operations) this should have been a priority as the commander was scheduled to be flying from Cork.
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 15:52
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Cork flogged to Death

And the fact that its a pretty small catchment area and a Regional airport which unfortunately only feeds internationally. Theres not even enough business for a Navajo to operate to/from the Capital.

But the research has been done, looked at it myself. The aircraft sit on the ground for a very good reason. Its not a flying circus tbh.
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 16:07
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The aircraft sit on the ground for a very good reason, there's nowhere for them to go. Speaking as a Corkonian I have to agree with Aer Lingus, for example 840 why add additional services to CDG when you can increase the price of existing flights and get even higher yield? Sounds terrible to the average punter - But its the best thing they can do, why send an aircraft to say Faro twice a week in Winter at a loss, when you can park the aircraft and actually reduce losses, its logical what they're doing and until such time the economy in this country recovers to an extent where Aer Lingus can create new opportunities in a typically low quarter of travel as they do in the summer is when sustainable growth will return to Cork.

It's plain and simple. The people of Cork have voted with their feet ever since adam was a babe. They would rather fly into LHR to go just about anywhere than flying with the local carriers. Unfortunately you get what you sow. To expect AL to wear a loss and build up routes whilst the locals fly with everyone else ain't a runner.

Sometimes people can't see the wood from the trees. Rather than realising that competition was good for average fares you deserted Wizz in favour of FR. Then they pulled off not surprisingly when loads/yield softened and they realised they could make more money elsewhere on the network outside of Cork. Same happened with Aer Arran. Now you all give out about how you can't connect in off regional to Dublin to get to the US but have to drive to Dublin or more bizarrely fly east to LHR.

All routes have to be profitable from day 1 - that has been the management edict for the past 5 years. AL ain't a charity.
Erm who's say we expect Aer Lingus to run up losses, certainly not anyone involved in this industry, it's our jobs that rely on them being profitable.

''You deserted Wizz.'' It frankly laughable you believe locals were using Wizz, they transported poles to/from Poland - Simple. Ryanair although they wiped them out unfortunately have created tourism in Poland from Cork, you should see how busy their services to Krakow and Warsaw are with Irish punters, something I rarely saw on Wizz bar during the Euro's from Cork! No one with a brain believes Cork will get T/A services in the next century, frankly it shouldn't even be researched, Management need to get a stable footing with existing services and grow demand. Aer Arann will be making an announcement in the next while for Cork, Aer Lingus have created sustainable growth and Ryanair aren't going to be doing anything we know that. Aer Lingus operated a Cork base wholly profitable since it grew here, they made a loss during the last few Winters and cut Barcelona, Berlin, Rome and more and reduced services to Geneva and Malaga to name but a few and finally are operating to a point out of Cork they deem sustainable - For example next Summer they have cut Lisbon, to replace it with a Shannon-Malaga service, although this is annoying for Cork Airport, it's Aer Lingus trying to make sure they operate wholly profitable from Cork in the Summer and who could blame them.
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 16:19
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Problem with Wizz was that nobody hardly knows them, I'm sure both the airline and and Cork Airport could of did things differently and get the name know around Cork but Wizz were probaly happy with there customer base until a couple of years ago when demand started to slow, action should of being taken then. Ryanair's route announsments attract a good media presance when they are in Cork a lot of the time but Wizz don't at all.

@MCDU2 How's Belfast working out?!
All EI ever said was LGW was "weak" to begin with, by all accounts the others are doing very well, they have restored a weekly flight to AGP for the summer which was moved to make way for PMI last year.
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 16:20
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On average next week, the cost a ticket from Cork to Paris is €14 higher than Dublin to Paris, while Paris to Cork is €16 higher than Paris to Dublin. The differential is higher around weekends than it is mid-week.

Yields are good on that route.

There is a question of the extent to which adding capacity would undermine yields, but without trying, they won't know.

They are a business and not a charity and businesses take controlled risks. If they don't do so, they wither to nothing. What's important in business is having pre-defined rules on what constitutes a success or a failure and being willing to pull the plug on a new venture that is failing.
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 17:43
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Anyone know what loads are like from Cork to Munich?
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 20:56
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Aerlingus at Cork

Aerlingus have one of the 3 Cork based aircraft on the ground from lunch time on Sundays and Wednesday's. Leaving a plane grounded on Sunday is a strange decision given that it's generally one of the busier periods for travelling. Surely it would be better to go to Brussels on Sunday Evening rather than Monday as it would be more attractive for what ever business passengers use the route as well as being more convenient for weekend City Breakers.

An evening service to CDG would also be more attractive than the current mid morning slot for the same reason. I wonder how much thought and consultation went into this scheduling or did someone simply withdraw the two Brussels flights that operated on Sundays and Wednesdays last Winter and leave it at that?
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 21:07
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Wasn`t commenting on the incident at all but speaking in general on Cork`s relatively short runways. Indeed it isn`t the only incident that occurred in Cork due to strong gusty crosswinds in recent decades.

A modest increase in the length of the north south runway would make Cork more attractive for future transatlantic operations .
A modest increase in length of the short westerly runway would also be very welcome from a safety point of view than landing on the north south runway in a howling crosswind which I have done on many an occasion.

Expect neither developments to occur whilst Cork is run by the Dublin Airport Authority.
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 21:15
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Any rumours about who might take over the Newcastle route?
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 21:28
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Regarding a Brussels flight on Sunday or Monday, Cork Airport did worry about it to the extent of putting a poll on there Facebook page. Sunday night won the vote. Unfortunately Aer Lingus didn't listen, especially when the capacity is there!

https://www.facebook.com/questions/643583279000698/
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 22:00
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Dublin, Belfast, Southampton, Prague, Bratislava, Leeds, Cardiff ,Exeter , Durham, Budapest, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, Poznan, and now Lisbon have all been lost to Cork since 2007 and no domestic or foreign carrier has taken them up so I wouldn't hold out too much hope for Newcastle if Jet2 do withdraw.

Only for Ryanair's decision to significantly expand their Summer operations at Cork since 2010 the situation would be dire.
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 15:58
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The Airbus A350 - yet another airframe type which will never see the light of day at Cork Airport.

Oh, well. Time to let it go and leave it for another generation.
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 16:03
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Runway or not at Cork not a hope of filling one. Like SNN 757 size would only be suitable. I'm sure EI will have the 321 Neo at some point.
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Old 8th Dec 2013, 01:37
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Cork..

Why, why, why is it always a "glass half empty" outlook you lot have? What you've got is never good enough and what you might have coming isn't good enough either ...beggars belief!

MH.
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Old 8th Dec 2013, 01:44
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Please exclude me from that above statement, apparently referring to ''you lot'' these days indicts whole sectors of people. - I'm grateful with their current capacity, infact I believe they rightly could have cut services even more!! At the end of the day what we have we should be grateful for, the days of airports dictating what services they have are nearly gone, its an airline game these days and you know what? Rightly so! They have the balls and brains. It's a pity Cork doesn't.
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