CORK - 5
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Jack you said on your last post that 2 possibly 3 new routes would be announced during the week .Any further updates on which day that might be?Care to give us any hints on routes and airlines involved?
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Didn't Aer Lingus want to fly to FRA but passengers didn't and they changed those plans...and operating a struggling BRU route which passengers wanted but don't seem to be making great use of it!
Anyway FRA/MUC have very limited capacity and to be honest COrk will not be top priority, just look at their networks from these airports.
Anyway FRA/MUC have very limited capacity and to be honest COrk will not be top priority, just look at their networks from these airports.
Jamie2k9,
I agree, but it would be great to see a carrier like Bmi Regional come in and test thinner routes like FRA and BRU etc. naturally the fares would reflect the smaller jet aircraft. This would be a good test. Something like JetMagic, who offered a great service....
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Ah back in the day
Jetmagic,
Took money from prospective customers right up to announcing ceasing of flights, never paid DAA for Cork operations and still fondly remembered,
Yes fond memories there all right still they did have free newspapers
I think Cork punches above its weight given so small catchment area for potential customers, they just need to stop FR from chasing everyone else away but that's down to the locals who can decide if they want a one airline airport or not, pity about
Took money from prospective customers right up to announcing ceasing of flights, never paid DAA for Cork operations and still fondly remembered,
Yes fond memories there all right still they did have free newspapers
I think Cork punches above its weight given so small catchment area for potential customers, they just need to stop FR from chasing everyone else away but that's down to the locals who can decide if they want a one airline airport or not, pity about
Last edited by Hangar6; 29th Mar 2015 at 20:14. Reason: Error
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Nothing wrong with the DAA per se, they are just focussed on Dublin Airport.
Cork Airport would be far better off if the DAA were removed along with their debt that makes Cork airport uncompetitive vis a via Shannon.
Hope this will be an election issue in Cork in the coming year.
Cork Airport would be far better off if the DAA were removed along with their debt that makes Cork airport uncompetitive vis a via Shannon.
Hope this will be an election issue in Cork in the coming year.
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Even debt free, what have SNN actually gained? FR replaced EIR on a few UK routes, the EI trials of CDG and FAO are gone. Other than a cargo service from TK, not a lot has been achieved.
If people are looking at facts, rather than political spin, separation makes no difference. The daa is an airport group, they should promoting and optimising all of their assets. Should Manchester Airports Group be split (MAN, STN, BOH and EMA)?
ORK needs to decide what can be realistically achieved. Interest from airlines other than EI and FR should be heavily encouraged, destinations in Italy, Germany, Switzerland possibly even Scandanavia are what ORK needs and don't overlap with SNN. An air service to DUB and possibly Belfast would be desirable. Transatlantic is off the table, at least until aircraft like the A321LR are in service.
If people are looking at facts, rather than political spin, separation makes no difference. The daa is an airport group, they should promoting and optimising all of their assets. Should Manchester Airports Group be split (MAN, STN, BOH and EMA)?
ORK needs to decide what can be realistically achieved. Interest from airlines other than EI and FR should be heavily encouraged, destinations in Italy, Germany, Switzerland possibly even Scandanavia are what ORK needs and don't overlap with SNN. An air service to DUB and possibly Belfast would be desirable. Transatlantic is off the table, at least until aircraft like the A321LR are in service.
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Even debt free, what have SNN actually gained? FR replaced EIR on a few UK routes, the EI trials of CDG and FAO are gone. Other than a cargo service from TK, not a lot has been achieved.
If people are looking at facts, rather than political spin, separation makes no difference. The daa is an airport group, they should promoting and optimising all of their assets. Should Manchester Airports Group be split (MAN, STN, BOH and EMA)?
ORK needs to decide what can be realistically achieved. Interest from airlines other than EI and FR should be heavily encouraged, destinations in Italy, Germany, Switzerland possibly even Scandanavia are what ORK needs and don't overlap with SNN. An air service to DUB and possibly Belfast would be desirable. Transatlantic is off the table, at least until aircraft like the A321LR are in service.
If people are looking at facts, rather than political spin, separation makes no difference. The daa is an airport group, they should promoting and optimising all of their assets. Should Manchester Airports Group be split (MAN, STN, BOH and EMA)?
ORK needs to decide what can be realistically achieved. Interest from airlines other than EI and FR should be heavily encouraged, destinations in Italy, Germany, Switzerland possibly even Scandanavia are what ORK needs and don't overlap with SNN. An air service to DUB and possibly Belfast would be desirable. Transatlantic is off the table, at least until aircraft like the A321LR are in service.
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Even debt free, what have SNN actually gained? FR replaced EIR on a few UK routes, the EI trials of CDG and FAO are gone. Other than a cargo service from TK, not a lot has been achieved.
If people are looking at facts, rather than political spin, separation makes no difference
If people are looking at facts, rather than political spin, separation makes no difference
On the network side...
1. FR have added 7 new routes, 6 of which are Continental European routes.
2. EI have added AGP, FAO and ACE; BOS has been extended to a year-round operation and the JFK service has also been extended
3. UA has extended the ORD operating season
4. EIR service to BHX has been secured for S15
5. TK have added cargo services
Non-network related developments include:
- Transaero has increased its maintenance operation at the airport
- Increased marketing efforts (which have extended as far as Cork)
- The launch of other revenue-generating initiatives, including a controlled set-down area and a re-design of the retail area
It would be unreasonable to expect any sweeping changes. Ultimately, the market is what it is. While a new service to a European hub airport (AMS or CDG) would be a big win, it has been proven time and time again that it is incredibly difficult to make Euro city routes work out of SNN. I have no doubt that the airport is doing all it possible can to secure such a service, but at the same time we need to be realistic. Anything other than the long-standing UK, US and Spanish routes will be a challenge.
For small airports like SNN and ORK, gradual, sustained, progress is what really matters. There will never be one single event that will make us say "yes, the separation has clearly been a success". What we do know, however, is that the progress made to date has been largely positive, and we should commend the airport for that, rather than adopting a very pessimistic view of the situation.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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ORK
2009 2,769,048 Decrease 15.0%
2010 2,425,131 Decrease 12.4%
2011 2,361,947 Decrease 2.6%
2012 2,340,115 Decrease 0.9%
2013 2,258,005 Decrease 3.5%
2014 2,144,476 Decrease 5%
SNN
2009 2,794,563 Decrease 11.8%
2010 1,755,885 Decrease 37.2%
2011 1,625,549 Decrease 7.4%
2012 1,394,781 Decrease 14.3%
2013 1,400,032 Increase 0.4%........01st Jan 2013: separation
2014 1,639,315 Increase 17.1%
2009 2,769,048 Decrease 15.0%
2010 2,425,131 Decrease 12.4%
2011 2,361,947 Decrease 2.6%
2012 2,340,115 Decrease 0.9%
2013 2,258,005 Decrease 3.5%
2014 2,144,476 Decrease 5%
SNN
2009 2,794,563 Decrease 11.8%
2010 1,755,885 Decrease 37.2%
2011 1,625,549 Decrease 7.4%
2012 1,394,781 Decrease 14.3%
2013 1,400,032 Increase 0.4%........01st Jan 2013: separation
2014 1,639,315 Increase 17.1%
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Jamie2k9,
I agree, but it would be great to see a carrier like Bmi Regional come in and test thinner routes like FRA and BRU etc. naturally the fares would reflect the smaller jet aircraft. This would be a good test. Something like JetMagic, who offered a great service....
I agree, but it would be great to see a carrier like Bmi Regional come in and test thinner routes like FRA and BRU etc. naturally the fares would reflect the smaller jet aircraft. This would be a good test. Something like JetMagic, who offered a great service....
Nothing wrong with the DAA per se, they are just focussed on Dublin Airport.
Cork Airport would be far better off if the DAA were removed along with their debt that makes Cork airport uncompetitive vis a via Shannon.
Hope this will be an election issue in Cork in the coming year.
Cork Airport would be far better off if the DAA were removed along with their debt that makes Cork airport uncompetitive vis a via Shannon.
Hope this will be an election issue in Cork in the coming year.
It would also be very hypocritical of the people, oh yes we care about Cork but on the other hand we will fly from another airport even if the same route is served at Cork!
Even debt free, what have SNN actually gained? FR replaced EIR on a few UK routes, the EI trials of CDG and FAO are gone. Other than a cargo service from TK, not a lot has been achieved.
This is quite a pessimistic view, and a little unfair I think. There have been a number of successes which are worth noting.
On the network side...
1. FR have added 7 new routes, 6 of which are Continental European routes.
2. EI have added AGP, FAO and ACE; BOS has been extended to a year-round operation and the JFK service has also been extended
3. UA has extended the ORD operating season
4. EIR service to BHX has been secured for S15
5. TK have added cargo services
Non-network related developments include:
- Transaero has increased its maintenance operation at the airport
- Increased marketing efforts (which have extended as far as Cork)
- The launch of other revenue-generating initiatives, including a controlled set-down area and a re-design of the retail area
It would be unreasonable to expect any sweeping changes. Ultimately, the market is what it is. While a new service to a European hub airport (AMS or CDG) would be a big win, it has been proven time and time again that it is incredibly difficult to make Euro city routes work out of SNN. I have no doubt that the airport is doing all it possible can to secure such a service, but at the same time we need to be realistic. Anything other than the long-standing UK, US and Spanish routes will be a challenge.
For small airports like SNN and ORK, gradual, sustained, progress is what really matters. There will never be one single event that will make us say "yes, the separation has clearly been a success". What we do know, however, is that the progress made to date has been largely positive, and we should commend the airport for that, rather than adopting a very pessimistic view of the situation.
On the network side...
1. FR have added 7 new routes, 6 of which are Continental European routes.
2. EI have added AGP, FAO and ACE; BOS has been extended to a year-round operation and the JFK service has also been extended
3. UA has extended the ORD operating season
4. EIR service to BHX has been secured for S15
5. TK have added cargo services
Non-network related developments include:
- Transaero has increased its maintenance operation at the airport
- Increased marketing efforts (which have extended as far as Cork)
- The launch of other revenue-generating initiatives, including a controlled set-down area and a re-design of the retail area
It would be unreasonable to expect any sweeping changes. Ultimately, the market is what it is. While a new service to a European hub airport (AMS or CDG) would be a big win, it has been proven time and time again that it is incredibly difficult to make Euro city routes work out of SNN. I have no doubt that the airport is doing all it possible can to secure such a service, but at the same time we need to be realistic. Anything other than the long-standing UK, US and Spanish routes will be a challenge.
For small airports like SNN and ORK, gradual, sustained, progress is what really matters. There will never be one single event that will make us say "yes, the separation has clearly been a success". What we do know, however, is that the progress made to date has been largely positive, and we should commend the airport for that, rather than adopting a very pessimistic view of the situation.
ORK
2009 2,769,048 Decrease 15.0%
2010 2,425,131 Decrease 12.4%
2011 2,361,947 Decrease 2.6%
2012 2,340,115 Decrease 0.9%
2013 2,258,005 Decrease 3.5%
2014 2,144,476 Decrease 5%
SNN
2009 2,794,563 Decrease 11.8%
2010 1,755,885 Decrease 37.2%
2011 1,625,549 Decrease 7.4%
2012 1,394,781 Decrease 14.3%
2013 1,400,032 Increase 0.4%........01st Jan 2013: separation
2014 1,639,315 Increase 17.1%
2009 2,769,048 Decrease 15.0%
2010 2,425,131 Decrease 12.4%
2011 2,361,947 Decrease 2.6%
2012 2,340,115 Decrease 0.9%
2013 2,258,005 Decrease 3.5%
2014 2,144,476 Decrease 5%
SNN
2009 2,794,563 Decrease 11.8%
2010 1,755,885 Decrease 37.2%
2011 1,625,549 Decrease 7.4%
2012 1,394,781 Decrease 14.3%
2013 1,400,032 Increase 0.4%........01st Jan 2013: separation
2014 1,639,315 Increase 17.1%
Last edited by Jamie2k9; 31st Mar 2015 at 00:12.
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Unfair it may be but it's reality, you can't compare now passenger ventures to Cork so from a passenger prospective it's very little.
Of course you can, and indeed should, compare non-passenger activities. There is more to an airport than what the passenger sees or experiences. It's no different to any other business; airports ought to pursue any projects or initiatives that generate a positive return on investment, regardless of whether they are passenger-related or not.
For example (on a smaller scale), a number of events (concerts and conferences etc) have been held in the SNN terminal building over the past two years. While the revenue generated is undoubtedly limited, these type of events help generate goodwill and publicity for the airport. These little things do matter.
My personal opinion is that airports need to make a greater effort to integrate themselves with the local community insofar as is practicable. Airports should be a force for good, both economically and socially. From an economic perspective, they have a duty to maximise the indirect and induced employment effects of the airport - attracting increased MRO activity, flying schools or aviation academies are potential options.
From a social perspective, a lot more needs to be done. They ought to be more proactive in facilitating school tours, student work placements, getting involved in local environmental initiatives, making airport marketing teams visible around the city centre at weekends, organising charity events, holding Christmas markets, providing free seminar/conference facilities etc. The list is endless, but from what I can see, little or no effort is being made in this respect. The local community needs to feel that the airport is truly "theirs". If people feel no emotional attachment to their local airport, the choice of airport (fly from Cork or drive to DUB) becomes purely an economic one. Building that emotional attachment takes time and effort, but in the long-run, if it could even help to attract just 5-10% of those passengers that drive to Dublin, it would be worthwhile. The Cork Airport brand comes across as a rather weak one, efforts like the above would help strengthen the value of the brand. Loyalty doesn't just happen, businesses need to earn it.
Last edited by EI320; 30th Mar 2015 at 23:22.
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Of course you can, and indeed should, compare non-passenger activities. There is more to an airport than what the passenger sees or experiences. It's no different to any other business; airports ought to pursue any projects or initiatives that generate a positive return on investment, regardless of whether they are passenger-related or not.
For example (on a smaller scale), a number of events (concerts and conferences etc) have been held in the SNN terminal building over the past two years. While the revenue generated is undoubtedly limited, these type of events help generate goodwill and publicity for the airport. These little things do matter.
My personal opinion is that airports need to make a greater effort to integrate themselves with the local community insofar as is practicable. Airports should be a force for good, both economically and socially. From an economic perspective, they have a duty to maximise the indirect and induced employment effects of the airport - attracting increased MRO activity, flying schools or aviation academies are potential options.
From a social perspective, a lot more needs to be done. They ought to be more proactive in facilitating school tours, student work placements, getting involved in local environmental initiatives, making airport marketing teams visible around the city centre at weekends, organising charity events, holding Christmas markets, providing free seminar/conference facilities etc. The list is endless, but from what I can see, little or no effort is being made in this respect. The local community needs to feel that the airport is truly "theirs". If people feel no emotional attachment to their local airport, the choice of airport (fly from Cork or drive to DUB) becomes purely an economic one. Building that emotional attachment takes time and effort, but in the long-run, if it could even help to attract just 5-10% of those passengers that drive to Dublin, it would be worthwhile. The Cork Airport brand comes across as a rather weak one, efforts like the above would help strengthen the value of the brand. Loyalty doesn't just happen, businesses need to earn it.
For example (on a smaller scale), a number of events (concerts and conferences etc) have been held in the SNN terminal building over the past two years. While the revenue generated is undoubtedly limited, these type of events help generate goodwill and publicity for the airport. These little things do matter.
My personal opinion is that airports need to make a greater effort to integrate themselves with the local community insofar as is practicable. Airports should be a force for good, both economically and socially. From an economic perspective, they have a duty to maximise the indirect and induced employment effects of the airport - attracting increased MRO activity, flying schools or aviation academies are potential options.
From a social perspective, a lot more needs to be done. They ought to be more proactive in facilitating school tours, student work placements, getting involved in local environmental initiatives, making airport marketing teams visible around the city centre at weekends, organising charity events, holding Christmas markets, providing free seminar/conference facilities etc. The list is endless, but from what I can see, little or no effort is being made in this respect. The local community needs to feel that the airport is truly "theirs". If people feel no emotional attachment to their local airport, the choice of airport (fly from Cork or drive to DUB) becomes purely an economic one. Building that emotional attachment takes time and effort, but in the long-run, if it could even help to attract just 5-10% of those passengers that drive to Dublin, it would be worthwhile. The Cork Airport brand comes across as a rather weak one, efforts like the above would help strengthen the value of the brand. Loyalty doesn't just happen, businesses need to earn it.
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Flew to Munich last saturday with EI, boarded via the airbridge, how greatful we were to avail of it as it was pouring buckets outside, god help those going to AMS and LHR who had to run to their planes. Something really needs to be done about this situtation, one airbridge is not good enough.
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Flew to Munich last saturday with EI, boarded via the airbridge, how greatful we were to avail of it as it was pouring buckets outside, god help those going to AMS and LHR who had to run to their planes. Something really needs to be done about this situtation, one airbridge is not good enough.
I flew to LHR recently on the morning flight from one of the gates with an airbridge - it was lashing rain, but it still wasn't used...
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Most importantly its less efficient. Airbridges generally only unload/load from the front door, where as stairs unload from the front and back, therefore leading to a faster unloading. This is important on a thight schedule such as Ryanair and Aer Lingus.