CORK - 5

[ryan2000]

Cork -5.5% for 1st two months of 2014.

[eirbus06]

-5.5%

No wonder the numbers are down. Aircoach is packed to the rafters. Someone i know, got the train from Cork to Dublin, flew Dublin to Gatwick and onto Mexico.

[ryan2000]

No competition on Cork routes apart from those to bucket and spades destinations. Aerlingus and Ryanair have nothing to lose as the people who take the coach or the car to Dublin almost invariably fly with one or the other rather than an overseas operator.

[aer lingus]

Yes have to agree, myself and the O/H are off to Vienna shortly, have to go from Dublin, the thought of it is killing me. We only live 10mins drive from Cork Airport and have to drive past the gates to get to Dublin.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by aer lingus

Yes have to agree, myself and the O/H are off to Vienna shortly, have to go from Dublin, the thought of it is killing me. We only live 10mins drive from Cork Airport and have to drive past the gates to get to Dublin.

I'm just curious (this is a sincere question - I'm not having a go) did you check the KLM fares for ORK-AMS-VIE, or BA fares ORK-LHR-VIE, or were they just not competitive? I doubt there are any airports e.g. in the UK with a catchment area the size of Cork's which have direct Vienna service, so I don't know that it'd be reasonable to expect a route like that to be sustainable out of Cork, but a decent connecting option would be the next best thing.

[widebody69]

Rarely competitive if booked through a codeshare. Booking individually, sometimes you get better EI fares but if connections are short, its too much of a risk. Same as previous poster, I live less than 10 mins from Cork Airport and it also kills me to drive past it on the way to Dublin. You just can't justify a 200-300 euro difference. I took a short flight to Europe last week from Dublin, 300 euros from Dublin with BA, 650 euros from Cork connecting to the same outbound BA from LHR. It's depressing. All hub connections are via EI and they know it.

[Cyrano]

Fair enough. I agree that that sort of fare difference is just too much.

[EI-A330-300]

If Dublin airport was located outside of Dublin and called something else I don't thing there would be an issue.

Lots of people from Cork fly from SNN and will increase from next month but that doesn't seem to matter but because it's not Dublin it's fine.

BTW when capacity is down passengers will be so expecting growth was stupid with W6 gone.

[840]

I just got Cork-Oslo for €220 with KLM. There is value to be had out there.

I suspect one of the problems with codeshares is that people don't use travel agents any more and don't know to check the KLM and BA websites. The default second option is to check the Aer Lingus and Ryanair price out of Dublin and Shannon.

Surely the main reason for the drop though is Wizzair leaving.

Incidentally, there has actually been a decrease in frequency of buses to Dublin Airport in the last year. More than likely this is because the train service has got faster and now holds more of an advantage over the bus for passengers bound for Dublin City, but there isn't the astronomical growth that some seem to believe.

[m36mike]

I live 5 mins from SNN, Work in SNN and have to go to Cork Airport this year to get to Salou, So I am feeling yer pain in Cork also. I tried going through the uk but Cork was the cheapest option. ORK - BCN with Aer Lingus and REU - ORK with Ryanair.

[aer lingus]

Yes I looked at both BA and KLM, no savings as such, 9 hour layover at Amsterdam on the way back, I forget what H/row was but the price was way out.

[brian_dromey]

I think the outlook for Cork has changed, in terms of decline due to to the economic conditions, but also much improved transport links to Dublin Airport.

I think the future of Cork will be focussed on three main markets
1) UK - mainly provided by Aer Lingus Regional.
2) Key European Hubs - LHR/CDG/AMS
3) Popular Sun Destinations - I expect some of these will vary over time, but the staples of Spain and Portugal will dominate.

I think the main priority for Cork Airport should be to limit 'leakage' to DUB and SNN on the key routes. Obviously the airport does not set fares, but marketing and social media might be ways to let the catchment know the routes and frequencies on offer. Routes like BRU, GVA and BVA seem to have stagnated at very low frequency, Rome has been gone for a while, which is a shame.

Im not sure chasing a North American route is the best use of resources, although it would be prestigious and a coup for the airport, links to FRA/ZRH might be more useful.

[ATNotts]

brian dromey

Im not sure chasing a North American route is the best use of resources

I think your right on the money there. Here in UK many regional airports managements, and more particularly airport supporters (spotters) are obsessed with getting direct services to the USA - however for a regional airport to do it's job right, it should be serving business routes to the region's major trading partner - which, again I guess, is the rest of the EU - not the USA.

Surely as you said routes to cities such as Zürich (EEA not EU), Frankfurt, Milan, Copenhagen etc. would serve the Cork business person rather better and that's where the effort needs to be directed.

[Tom the Tenor]

Prague, Budapest, Rome, Warsaw and Krakow would be a good start for Cork though Warsaw and Krakow are still around for another two weeks or thereabouts. How blessed we are!

How many times has Frankfurt been previously mentioned on these pages?! As long as Cork is stuck with two airlines that look on Cork with such a low priority Cork is going nowhere especially when Cork people wont complain and will not demand more destinations. Then, when destinations are offered from Cork one airline in particular is so busy milking it with high fares the passengers end up bussing it to Dublin for connections to save a few bob.

Enjoy the coach ride on the way back.

[Una Due Tfc]

Airlines only have a certain amount of aircraft. If EI/FR aren't serving many destinations out of Cork, it's because their aircraft will make more profit elsewhere. You can be sure EI and FR look at where people who use their aircraft are coming from when booking. If they see a certain percentage of their pax flying out of Dublin to wherever are from Cork, they would be tempted to serve that destination directly. However, they have to see if

A) Would the new service be profitable

B) Would the Dublin service still be profitable without the Cork pax

C)Would the aircraft needed to run this service be making more profit than if it were used on another route

If the above are all met then maybe there is a chance. Maybe

Same goes for SNN, and given they can set their own charges, they are Cork's biggest problem now IMHO, as the FR move of the Polish flights demonstrates.

[brian_dromey]

Una is right, the relative profitability and probability of profitability of routes across an airlines entire network is how decisions are made. If EI or FR thought they could get a better return at ORK than SNN, KIR, DUB, LHR, wherever then aircraft and crew would be allocated. Similarly the likes of LH, SAS, SWISS and Turkish Airlines have had ample opportunity to launch connections into their hubs but choose not to, despite a range of aircraft sizes.

You'd imagine something like an E190 with 100 or so seats would be ideal for Cork, but the reality is that seat-mile costs for an E190 are roughly double that of an A320, as per JetBlue and USAirways filings with the US FAA. I think the number of profitable routes that could be flown with such an expensive aircraft would be very limited indeed and probably have the volume to cross the break-even point on an A320 anyway. It's a shame because there are routes from Cork that could use a 100 seater, but this generation of jets just aren't suitable when competing with FR.

[ryan2000]

I accept that airlines generally opt for the most profitable routes but I still think that they are much more inclined to take risks from their main base. Is a route like Dublin Bologna or Dublin Stockholm really that more profitable than Cork Frankfurt?

[EI-A330-300]

Same goes for SNN, and given they can set their own charges, they are Cork's biggest problem now IMHO, as the FR move of the Polish flights demonstrates.

Even if Cork could it wouldn't make a big difference. How many years is SNN charging Ryanair €1 per passenger or even per flight sustainable/ SNN have gone in so low with Ryanair they have not power to increase charges long term. Any movement on such charges will result in what happened a few days ago.

As ORK pointed out on twitter, Ryanair and Aer Lingus could easily start a route and get discounts of up to 100% for the first few years.

I accept that airlines generally opt for the most profitable routes but I still think that they are much more inclined to take risks from their main base. Is a route like Dublin Bologna or Dublin Stockholm really that more profitable than Cork Frankfurt?

A new route for Aer Lingus at Cork means a new aircraft based at Cork and requires more than a new route and a risk not many could take. They won't base a second aircraft at SNN. To late this year but Cork really need to try and get those 5 weekly flights back from SNN in 2015 which would be a big step. Ryanair may help with that by doing a 3 weekly SNN-FAO and Ryanair have upped SNN-AGP to 4 weekly during peak summer which may also reduces yield for EI's new service. Won't be easy to it's very important they get those back.

As for profitably of DUB-Stockholm and Bologna, the answer is probably yes as EI have booted Ryanair off the route in October. FR may use the aircraft excuse but if it was a money spinner it would be here now. Bologna with EI have lots of tour operators block booking which helps.

ABZ have a FRA link 3 times daily, ORK should be able to get LH to fly at least once daily or even 5 weekly. German tour operators would boost the service. A while ago SNN stated they were looking for LH. Not a big benefit to EI serving FRA apart form O&D traffic. Even Germanwings who serve NOC seasonally which is largely an IT flight.

People say it's the daa but how hard are management at ORK really working to secure flights?


It wouldn't be unrealistic to have a 3rd EIR aircraft based at ORK either, SNN-MAN has better freq than ORK which is amazing and if it works there during the summer it really should at Cork.

[Una Due Tfc]

I have personally used the EI Dublin-Bologna flight 3 times in the last 2 years, superb. If you want to see Northern Italy and are planning on renting a car, I highly recommend it. Departing is unpleasant however, queues for security are enormous.

[Jack1985]

Fully agree with EI 330's post, any EI growth ex-Cork will be in the forum a W from DUB (unlikely) or 5th based unit (most probable for growth). That's too much new capacity for Cork to handle in current conditions and anyone who thinks it isn't, is on Cloud 9 so to speak. FR however have no excuse, axing KRK and WMI when loads on particularly KRK were above 90% last Summer when 3x weekly showed its profitability when FR were not offering their usual fares, however I'll remind people on this forum that was not an operational decision by FR, rather an idiotic one, a decision to somehow bruise Cork management.

Regards Ryan's route pointers its like comparing the launch of Cork-Helsinki with Paris-Brussels with AF, the later with a huge increase in potential demand however both determinations are they are not economical. Dublin-BLQ/ARN are going to be winner over any proposed ORK-FRA route, especially as they are doubling over capacity on there own services up against lufty. 4 airlines in discussions at the mo, all in advanced discussion, 1 current airline - the rest new.