CORK - 5
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
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Oddly enough, I hardly blame snn for very much anymore about what happens or not happens in Cork. It is reasonable to aruge than snn has the ear of government on it's side and for as long as the Dublin Airport Authority is in charge I think Cork Airport will continue to slip for much of the year ahead and that is hardly snn's fault at all - the confluence of Dublin Airport gaining so much ground with new routes and increased capacity on other routes and the willingness of so many Cork people happy to take the over night coach services to Dublin Airport are both making it more and more difficult for Cork to compete. More locally then, Cork is also tied by what must be more attractive terms being offered by snn for new routes - the new W routings at snn with Cork based aeroplanes would indicate this may be the case.
Neither do I buy in to the idea that Cork should be grateful and that the glass is still half full rather than half empty. Cork has been trying to regroup over the last two or three years and now, regretably, I think it is becoming too late for Cork - it is nigh on impossible to compete for existing traffic at Shannon, Dublin and even Kerry as it is to compete for any brand new traffic. The architecture seems to be all ready in place that Cork will hardly ever be able to put together a sweeter package in order to get much new business.
Keeping the airport at Cork going on Londons, Amsterdams, Malagas, Lanzarotes and twice weekly Poland flights - how can positive growth be restored on such a limited portfolio? I would argue that it cannot.
Neither do I buy in to the idea that Cork should be grateful and that the glass is still half full rather than half empty. Cork has been trying to regroup over the last two or three years and now, regretably, I think it is becoming too late for Cork - it is nigh on impossible to compete for existing traffic at Shannon, Dublin and even Kerry as it is to compete for any brand new traffic. The architecture seems to be all ready in place that Cork will hardly ever be able to put together a sweeter package in order to get much new business.
Keeping the airport at Cork going on Londons, Amsterdams, Malagas, Lanzarotes and twice weekly Poland flights - how can positive growth be restored on such a limited portfolio? I would argue that it cannot.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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The list of failed routes is lengthy and depressing, I agree, but the airport still has a broad range of flights to offer and most routes offer attractive frequency! especially the UK, AMS and CDG routes, which have good potential for connections.
Toms point about SNN is interesting. Most of the routes at ORK which are successful will now be on full charges. We all know SNN and ORK have catchment leak. By doing Ws from SNN, no doubt with very attractive incentives, EI can take advantage of this. Commercially it's a no brainer for EI.
Toms point about SNN is interesting. Most of the routes at ORK which are successful will now be on full charges. We all know SNN and ORK have catchment leak. By doing Ws from SNN, no doubt with very attractive incentives, EI can take advantage of this. Commercially it's a no brainer for EI.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Shannon reporting that they're close to profit this year. Easy when you've had €100m of debt written off. It's going to be very hard for Cork to compete on a level playing pitch if they're under the thumb of the DAA while Shannon are left to set their own charges.
Join Date: Nov 2011
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So ryan 2000, what is the call from Cork? Independence or Daa? I havnt heard anything just ye sitting on the fence and having a dig at a SNN management who deserve some credit for turning around the books in just a year. If SNN had independece for many years maybe they wouldnt have had a debt. We will never know.
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Maybe it's time that the Government came off the fence in relation to Cork. We've now had five consecutive years of decline here. Its route incentive scheme which we all know operates under the close supervision of the DAA is clearly not producing results.
Not one new route has been announced for 2014 up to the time of writing despite the abolition of the travel tax. Standard excuses about the recession are wearing thin as growth has returned at Dublin and Shannon the latter almost certainly to the fact that management there have been freed from the DAA.
Not one new route has been announced for 2014 up to the time of writing despite the abolition of the travel tax. Standard excuses about the recession are wearing thin as growth has returned at Dublin and Shannon the latter almost certainly to the fact that management there have been freed from the DAA.
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Well Leo V says the cost base of the airport is to high excluding the terminal debit and it would only be separated if it has a reasonable chance of working, he thinks not at this stage.
Travel Extra?s Sunday Supplement: Turkish goes to twelve and Leo wants 4pc | Travel Extra
Travel Extra?s Sunday Supplement: Turkish goes to twelve and Leo wants 4pc | Travel Extra
Join Date: Dec 2010
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The problem with Cork is simply down to two things - Management and Politics. This has led to the following 3 critical issues;
1) The construction of a brand new Terminal Building which is which is no longer fit for purpose. Yes at the time it catered to the massive growth being experienced however the involvement in this construction by politicians has lead to;
A) Cork Airport being saddled with totally unsustainable debt.
B) A new Terminal which today is a total and utter shambles, it leads to overall costs actually being increased as we have split operations (Old Terminal for Management etc) and an Terminal dedicated to operations, had there been a third upper level floor (the basement is below ground level and thus ground level is actually level 1) as requested by management at the time we would have had one house which would mean running costs would be A LOT lower as well as a massive drop in the current maintenance costs.
2) The clear and total ineptness of the current management team, with all due respect I think it would take an axe murder to appear in their offices to get them to realise they need to act now to protect existing services and to get growth back as soon as possible (the right growth!).
3) An uncompetitive playing field due to Politics.
A) Having a rival which can compete for the catchment of Cork Airport being cleared of €100m of debt and thus being able to exclude debt repayment costs, leaves Cork operating at a continued loss (one which will grow unless there is a radical turnaround) - The actual yearly losses at Cork Airport are primarily down to debt repayments, as was the case at Shannon. The actual operational side is expected to be profitable in 2014 - However again, there needs to be further radical efforts to achieve this target.
B) Having an owner who is actually also competing for a re-bound in passenger figures - It's clear this conflict of interest needs to be fully eradicated, Cork Airport needs to have 100% operational control, let's face it we're saddled with debt so we may aswell have a say in our continued downfall with the current management team.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Again I'll say it, Management and Politics. It's for that reason, Shannon is now at a competitive advantage over Cork in 2014, this is unjust and however childish, forum members want to be on this thread, its a fact, and until its corrected (I'm not holding my breath, this is Ireland
) then Cork will continue to face decline, job loss and tourism loss - For Ireland's second City, it is not only hilarious to watch the decline continue, but to listen as TD's and local management who seem to hold as much knowledge in this industry as my four year-old labrador speak about Cork's fortunes.
I have a clear connection with these 3 issues, my livelihood - And it sickens me to think that I might be watching it actually disappear.
1) The construction of a brand new Terminal Building which is which is no longer fit for purpose. Yes at the time it catered to the massive growth being experienced however the involvement in this construction by politicians has lead to;
A) Cork Airport being saddled with totally unsustainable debt.
B) A new Terminal which today is a total and utter shambles, it leads to overall costs actually being increased as we have split operations (Old Terminal for Management etc) and an Terminal dedicated to operations, had there been a third upper level floor (the basement is below ground level and thus ground level is actually level 1) as requested by management at the time we would have had one house which would mean running costs would be A LOT lower as well as a massive drop in the current maintenance costs.
2) The clear and total ineptness of the current management team, with all due respect I think it would take an axe murder to appear in their offices to get them to realise they need to act now to protect existing services and to get growth back as soon as possible (the right growth!).
3) An uncompetitive playing field due to Politics.
A) Having a rival which can compete for the catchment of Cork Airport being cleared of €100m of debt and thus being able to exclude debt repayment costs, leaves Cork operating at a continued loss (one which will grow unless there is a radical turnaround) - The actual yearly losses at Cork Airport are primarily down to debt repayments, as was the case at Shannon. The actual operational side is expected to be profitable in 2014 - However again, there needs to be further radical efforts to achieve this target.
B) Having an owner who is actually also competing for a re-bound in passenger figures - It's clear this conflict of interest needs to be fully eradicated, Cork Airport needs to have 100% operational control, let's face it we're saddled with debt so we may aswell have a say in our continued downfall with the current management team.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Again I'll say it, Management and Politics. It's for that reason, Shannon is now at a competitive advantage over Cork in 2014, this is unjust and however childish, forum members want to be on this thread, its a fact, and until its corrected (I'm not holding my breath, this is Ireland
) then Cork will continue to face decline, job loss and tourism loss - For Ireland's second City, it is not only hilarious to watch the decline continue, but to listen as TD's and local management who seem to hold as much knowledge in this industry as my four year-old labrador speak about Cork's fortunes.I have a clear connection with these 3 issues, my livelihood - And it sickens me to think that I might be watching it actually disappear.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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The motorway between Cork and Dublin and the new express coach services to the Capitals airport has also had a major impact on traffic.
However this may be down to the lack of choice and high fares at Cork rather than any desire by the public in the South to experience a 3 hour bus ride DUB!
There's more bad news to come for Cork in the form of cutbacks on flights in April May, September and October of 2014. Talk of green chutes and traffic growth in 2014 is now sounding very far fetched indeed.
However this may be down to the lack of choice and high fares at Cork rather than any desire by the public in the South to experience a 3 hour bus ride DUB!
There's more bad news to come for Cork in the form of cutbacks on flights in April May, September and October of 2014. Talk of green chutes and traffic growth in 2014 is now sounding very far fetched indeed.
The problem with Cork is simply down to two things - Management and Politics. This has led to the following 3 critical issues;
Cork is and will always be a small regional airport, Shannon is not much different aside from having T/A services and having benefitted by US Govt transiting troops to various war zones over last 10 years. The latter was never sustainable unless it was constant war especially when politicians in Ireland were quite vocal in telling them they were unwelcome.
The infrastructure spending across Ireland really only highlighted the ineptness of management at both airports.
Blaming Dublin for all their woes was a useful smokescreen to hide behind the desire to have expensive underused assets.
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major changes
Cyrano you just beat me to it..................yes care to elaborate on the actual management positions involved and personnel if thats appropriate. At least you might point out your sources.
Is there going to be a press release?
Thanks.in anticipation.
Is there going to be a press release?
Thanks.in anticipation.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Cork to remain within the DAA but will be a stand alone business unit within it. Several personnel changes. Not sure if there will be a formal press release but it
s a significant development.
s a significant development.