CORK - 5

[dubh12000]

Not to mention flights from the East. If I want to get home to Cork from Abu Dhabi I can get a straight through ticket from Etihad, but I change either in MAN or LHR. Emirates don't offer an interline to Cork from Dubai.

[brian_dromey]

I think the connection to LHR is far more important for connectivity than a connection to JFK would ever be. From LHR passengers can reach Europe, the East and West (even other UK destinations if they wish). JFK offers only US destinations, at a push Canada but there is a lot of back-tracking and clearing Customs and Immigration twice.
A US route would be a great feather in the cap, but links to BRU, FRA or ZRH would be much more useful.

dubh12000,
EK dont have a codeshare into Cork, but they do offer fares into Cork, mostly through on-line and high street travel agents (expedia, etc), they will connect over LHR, MAN, AMS, CDG and BHX, potentially GLA if the schedule and availibility works. They used to offer LGW as well, until EI stopped that route. Often via one airport one way and another on the return.

[CCR]

“We are working with them to prove that demand exists,” he said.

Must be frustrating for the Cork chamber of commerce people and the business community in general.
The Cork-Dublin route was a commercial route, not a PSO subsidised regional route. Before Ryanair forced Aer Arann off the Cork-Dublin route with their 10 euro each way fares, Aer Arann described it as their "bread and butter route".

Despite the motorway and hourly rail service to Cork, it`s amazing that Aer Arann/Aer Lingus Regional don`t restart the route even at a fraction of the 11 flights a day that once existed during the Celtic Tiger.

[brian_dromey]

Aer Lingus Regional is the obvious brand for the route, it's worth remembering that connections would (or certianly could) also be possible onto the rest of the EIR and Aer Lingus networks, as well as any interline connections.
I think ORK-DUB is less attractive than it once was, competition from road and rail, for one. Changed economic times, too. The revenue potential at RE has changed quite a bit as well, RE now have access to much busier routes out of DUB and no longer compete with EI. EI and RE together are stronger against FR. Essentially DUUB-ORK is lower on the priority list than it would have been before.

[ryan2000]

Cork passenger traffic -8% for August, that's worrying given that it's usually a peak month.

[Jack1985]

Not In Ireland - that would be July, Ryanair also reduced the operation of the 3rd based unit to just being used Friday to Sunday for that month.

[j636]

Not a peak month but 8% is a big drop, at most 2% would be normal. A lot of last minute holidays bookers will be part of the decline I expect and loss of Wizz which FR were soaking up with 3 based aircraft now they have cut a few days flying of the third one.

[cloudier]

I understand it is worse nearly 8.5% lower

[Vapor]

I don't believe that a Cork-Dublin route would be viable anymore and rather than suggestions that Ryanair killed Aer Arann off the route, it was actually the opening of the motorway which killed both of them.
On top of that there is also a high frequency express bus service which has proved to be a very successful. Even the train struggles against the express coach these days.

I suppose the only way you could ever see the route coming back is if Aer Lingus see a big drop in passengers originating in Cork and travelling up to Dublin to take flights not served from Cork.
My own guess is that passengers are getting to Dublin by other means.

I think that using a peak time ATR slot from Cork to a UK provincial airport gives EI and Aer Arann much more profit potential than a feeder to Dublin.

[ryan2000]

If I arrived in Dublin from North America or the Middle East , I'd still prefer the comfort of a short flight to Cork than a 3 and a half hour journey by coach but maybe I'm an exception.

[Vapor]

"If I arrived in Dublin from North America or the Middle East , I'd still prefer the comfort of a short flight to Cork than a 3 and a half hour journey by coach but maybe I'm an exception."

I'm sure everybody would, but that's not enough reason for EI to spend money on a connecting flight.
Where is the increased revenue going to come from to cover this "comfort of a short flight"?

[Jack1985]

Plus you can almost immediately discredit any onboard revenue, Aer Arann have much greater potential sending aircraft to the UK and/or France.

[840]

Most people will go for the cheaper bus than pay for the flight. However, there is a significant business market who would prefer the convenience of the flight. The question is whether the twice daily flight it would require would produce the yield. I would still have thought an ATR 42 would work, but RE don't have any based in Cork.

In other news, 24 hour opening is to be maintained at the airport, but with a reduced number of ATC operators.

[mart901]

If it was timed to connect with US flights and to get business people into the office for 9 surely an ATR could be filled. An evening return run 5-7pm sort of time? Given the scale of volume in years gone by when RE were not connecting many PAX anywhere I'm sure they could make a go of it.

[GCUFD]

@Ryan2000

If I arrived in Dublin from North America or the Middle East , I'd still prefer the comfort of a short flight to Cork than a 3 and a half hour journey by coach but maybe I'm an exception.

But is this an adequate description of the situation? Would you expect a lot of Cork-bound businessmen to arrive off flights in DUB from different locations at much the same time, so that a single departure to ORK would suit them all?

Isn't that the key weakness? If I arrive back in DUB at 3:00pm (say) I can just hit the road, and hopefully be back in Cork in 3 and a half hours. That's a better alternative to waiting four hours to board (say) a 7:00pm departure to ORK.

(Obviously the example is only illustrative to make the point - which is frequency.)

[ryan2000]

Best thing Cork Business people can do is to make a concious effort to fly from Cork via LHR, CDG AMS. Very often going by coach involves an overnight in Dublin or a horrendously early start. When one takes the total cost into consideration and the inconvenience is it really worth it? The new motorway is a big improvement on the old road but it's still a tiring enough journey particularly on the return leg. Besides flying from Dublin only undermines efforts to develop services from Cork.

[brian_dromey]

I agree with both sides of the argument, to a certain extent. I drove from Cork to Dublin this weekend and now that the south ring road runs from ballincollig to the tunnel its a very easy journey. The only enforced stop between ballincollig and Newlands cross is at the dunkettle interchange, also the tolls but they are pretty swift too.

Let's say someone wants to be "in the office for 9". First it depends where the office is, but lets assume city centre.

To get to central dublin for 0900 by car you would probably have to leave most Cork subarbs at roughly 0500. Maybe closer to 0600 if you live to the north of the city and your meeting is at cityWest.

The 0600 train arrives into Heuston at 0830.

To have a chance of getting into Dublin city centre for 0900 you would need to land at DUB around 0730, meaning a 0645ish departure. You would need to be at ORK for 0600.

In short there is no real time saving flying over the train or car, both provide more frequency and therefore flexibility. Of course it all depends where you live and where in Dublin you might want to go. If you live in, say, Ballygarvan and your office is near DUB then the flight would almost certainly be preferable. I think given O&D alone the flights may struggle, but a combination of both markets it may work. As mentioned above though, RE probably have more attractive markets and EI may find flying passengers to LHR/AMS/CDG is a better return than flying them over the atlantic.

[Cian]

Isn't that the key weakness? If I arrive back in DUB at 3:00pm (say) I can just hit the road, and hopefully be back in Cork in 3 and a half hours. That's a better alternative to waiting four hours to board (say) a 7:00pm departure to ORK.

Give me three hours in the lounge and a flight rather than 3.5 on a coach.

If timed properly there's also a fair bit of domestic traffic that'd use it still - I often enough do DUB-CFN for work, get 6 hours time in DL without overnighting; whereas the KIR timings are useless for that.

[barrymah]

More bad news

Just one air traffic controller to work night shift at Cork Airport from January

[GCUFD]

I'm not totally clear if we're all on the same topic. I thought the issue was simply that some saw potential for DUB-ORK flight for people who wanted to transit through DUB, perhaps as an alternative to using LHR etc. For my part, I'd assume that anyone going between Cork and Dublin (i.e. if Cork or Dublin was the final destination), they'd use either car, coach or train. I can't see how air could compete with land over those more convenient and frequent alternatives.

Best thing Cork Business people can do is to make a concious effort to fly from Cork via LHR, CDG AMS.

Presumably Cork business people will do whatever makes sense on time and cost grounds. If using LHR, CDG or AMS is the most efficient method for particular journeys, beating the costs of an initial land journey to DUB, then that certainly is what they should do.