Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

CORK - 5

Old 12th Dec 2012, 11:46
  #4061 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ryanair have released the Easten Europe routes next summer.

Any chance Wizz may appear in SNN, FR have made it quiet clear there position on the split from DAA so it could be good for Wizz if they did.
EI-A330-300 is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2012, 15:05
  #4062 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Any chance Wizz may appear in SNN, FR have made it quiet clear there position on the split from DAA so it could be good for Wizz if they did.
Why would they? The market is saturated at the moment.
Jack1985 is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2012, 15:31
  #4063 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Look up.
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Jack, the Poland market at SNN is far from saturated. Only 2x weekly to Wroclaw at the moment. Good opportunity for SAA here.
fivejuliet is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2012, 15:35
  #4064 (permalink)  
840
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland nowadays
Posts: 1,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Even so, I doubt Wizzair would go for it as they would now expect Ryanair to defend "their" territory.
840 is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2012, 15:40
  #4065 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Jack, the Poland market at SNN is far from saturated. Only 2x weekly to Wroclaw at the moment. Good opportunity for SAA here.
Of course its Saturated. From Munster we Currently we have 24 weekly flights to Poland (Gdansk, Katowice, Krakow, Poznan, Warsaw-Modlin, Wroclaw) and 4 weekly flights to Lithuania (Vilnius). Although this will reduce slightly from January following Wizz' decision, the market is not large enough to support these flights. Shannon is about an 1hr and 30mins from Cork. fivejuliet if you look at the history of Shannon's routes to Poland and Lithuania the majority were all pulled before the decision to reduce services massively in 2008. The one's I can remember of the top of my head are Gdansk and Katowice from Shannon unable to compete with Wizz' services ex-Cork.
Jack1985 is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2012, 16:14
  #4066 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Look up.
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Gdansk and Katowice were operated by Centralwings who folded in '09, they also flew to Warsaw, Ryanair went to Krakow and Lodz, so little to do with Wizz in reality.

You can expect a significant reduction in Ryanair's ORK-Poland now that Wizz are gone.
fivejuliet is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2012, 20:46
  #4067 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Gdansk and Katowice were operated by Centralwings who folded in '09, they also flew to Warsaw, Ryanair went to Krakow and Lodz, so little to do with Wizz in reality.
Centralwings pulled their operations from Ireland in April '08. Ryanair operated from Shannon to Gdansk, Katowice, Krakow, Lodz and Wroclaw. They axed Gdansk and Katowice very early after they started, the market in Munster most definitely was flying ex-Cork. Krakow, Lodz and Wroclaw remained for a while thereafter, Wroclaw still remains. The Gdansk and Katowice routes ex-Shannon flopped because the successful Wizz operation on those routes at Cork, most definitely. There is a much larger catchment of Poles nearer to Cork, so I think it had a lot to do with the market preferring to fly from Cork.

This is why when Wizz are ending these routes and most probably eventually pull out of the ROI they wont be looking at Shannon.
Jack1985 is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2012, 21:13
  #4068 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Rapidly moving to a situation where practically every scheduled flight at Cork Airport will have a Harp or Shamrock on the tail. Big change from the mid 2000's when Cork had a portfolio of airlines with no real dominant carrier.
ryan2000 is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2012, 21:16
  #4069 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Rapidly moving to a situation where practically every scheduled flight at Cork Airport will have a Harp or Shamrock on the tail.
Unfortunately this is the case, something needs to be done sharpish about attracting other airlines. The elephants in the room to this though as ever predictable are the Government (the DAA) and Ryanair.
Jack1985 is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2012, 21:55
  #4070 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes, it is very difficult not to be pessimistic about Cork Airport's future in the short to medium term. It is coming to the point where to get on at all Cork will have to look at business outside the European Union and European free trade areas to counter the dangers from the DAA, Ryanair and now, a semi free snn as well! What hope does Cork have in view of all the above?

Cargo?

Corporate?

Medium to long haul to the east or west? Fat chance, the greedy guts at Fortress Dublin would want to remove any Cork possibility there not to mention the threat from Shannon as well?

Cork is banjaxed? It will really be a car showroom if this tale of woe continues.

Last edited by Tom the Tenor; 12th Dec 2012 at 21:56.
Tom the Tenor is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 00:22
  #4071 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Unfortunately this is the case, something needs to be done sharpish about attracting other airlines. The elephants in the room to this though as ever predictable are the Government (the DAA) and Ryanair.
What can be done if airlines were offered zero charges at Cork to open new routes I can't see it having a major affect although Ryanair would be delighted but Aer Lingus would not open a single route. Its not the Gov or Airport operator's fault to an extent they can't foce carriers to fly there unless they decide to pay them.
Jamie2k9 is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 06:14
  #4072 (permalink)  
840
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland nowadays
Posts: 1,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you're looking to encourage new carriers, you're going to have to offer even more protection than at present.

While Ryanair pay full commercial charges and Wizzair pay reduced ones, that clearly hasn't discouraged Ryanair from jumping on their routes. So you're going to have to impose higher charges if someone launches on an existing route (esp if it's launched in the last 5-8 years). This wouldn't actually be illegal if transparently and consistently applied.
840 is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 06:35
  #4073 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Maybe it's time to end the Free for all on routes within the EU. It's fine to have multiple carriers between major Cities but airports like Cork and Shannon cannot support two carriers to places like Vilnius and Wroclaw. Instead of promoting competition the policy is effectively giving us an old style monopoly!
ryan2000 is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 07:52
  #4074 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Look up.
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Gdansk and Katowice routes ex-Shannon flopped because the successful Wizz operation on those routes at Cork, most definitely. There is a much larger catchment of Poles nearer to Cork, so I think it had a lot to do with the market preferring to fly from Cork.
With comical statements like that you should considering offering your advice to the industry
fivejuliet is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 11:42
  #4075 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What can be done if airlines were offered zero charges at Cork to open new routes I can't see it having a major affect although Ryanair would be delighted but Aer Lingus would not open a single route. Its not the Gov or Airport operator's fault to an extent they can't foce carriers to fly there unless they decide to pay them.
With all due respect Jamie it has absolutely everything to do with the Gov and the DAA. The Gov are currently not doing anything for the industry - The cost base remains largely the same, transport costs continue to rise etc.. The DAA are nothing but a complete disaster for Cork. As long as the DAA has greater autonomy over Cork then it does itself, we will continue to see possible new traffic re-directed to Dublin. Early on in the year there were rumours Turkish Airlines were again reviewing the possibility of launching service from Cork with a 3 weekly route to Istanbul. We have since learned they will instead increase their service from Dublin to 11 weekly flights (from daily). Connection? I believe so. Cork needs to be separated and if the headbangers in Gov still think its not possible then the airport needs far greater autonomy then it currently holds - I know this has been recommended in sorts via the Booz report but were still waiting for this to be implemented. This can happen over night but I think we'll have some more waste from Varadkar via reports which do nothing but confirm what everyone has been saying for years, how these morons we continue elect, continue to fail to implement the reports is just beyond me.

With comical statements like that you should considering offering your advice to the industry
Ah as predictable as ever fivejuliet, giving out smart comments when you lose the argument.
Jack1985 is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 13:46
  #4076 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm sure TK decision to increase capacity on DUB route next summer has nothing to do with the route having a LF of around 90% If TK felt there was real demand to operate a 3 weekly ORK service they would, they are getting no discount at DUB for the extra flights.
Jamie2k9 is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 13:59
  #4077 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have been thinking a bit about Jack85's post over lunch!

You know, the Turkish story is quite interesting from a Cork point of view. Turkish has a pretty diverse fleet of aircraft from Boeing 737-700/800/900ERs and other narrow body Airbus A319/320 & 321. They have A330s, A340s & Boeing 777s.

Now, if they were so keen on increasing capacity on Istanbul - Dublin they could easily replaced a smaller narrowbody with either A321 or 737-900ER or they could have really upped the ante all together with an A330? Would this have been easier for them rather than increasing frequency? For the past year the departure time ex Dublin has been later morning/early afternoon which is, on the whole, a rather ideal time?

I wonder how much work was done to try and get Turkish to Cork and if it was anyway encouraging could the Fort Dublin crowd have muscled to make certain it went in a more favourable direction from that point of view?

My head is away too fried to be going down the conspiracy road but I wonder what sort of deal has been done to get the extra Turkish services into Dublin? It is, after all, an all ready existing route from Istanbul to Dublin so how could it be a better deal than what Cork may be able to offer?
Tom the Tenor is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 14:02
  #4078 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Curiouser and curiouser!
Tom the Tenor is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 14:05
  #4079 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You could say why are they increasing freq on BHX route and not using a larger aircraft. Would say its down to connections at different times of the day, having 10 weekly allows more flexibility for the passenger. They dropped Business class on DUB route a few months ago so that Economy could be increased. The 737-8, 737-9 have less Y seats than the A320. The A321 have more Y seats than the A320 but it alos has 10 Business class ones which is why its not used.

Last edited by Jamie2k9; 13th Dec 2012 at 14:10.
Jamie2k9 is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2012, 14:36
  #4080 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm sure TK decision to increase capacity on DUB route next summer has nothing to do with the route having a LF of around 90% If TK felt there was real demand to operate a 3 weekly ORK service they would, they are getting no discount at DUB for the extra flights.
Well for the peak travel month of August 2012, Turkish operated a mix of A320/A321 on the DUB-IST route producing a LF of 83.2% for that month. The point Tom makes is correct and is a view shared by Emirates increase aircraft size to match demand before increasing the amount of weekly flights. It's pretty obvious to me, that as soon as the DAA got wind of Turkish looking to broaden its Irish operation that 4 extra flights would be better suited to Dublin. The DAA's offices are in Dublin - the DAA Dublin Airport Authority. My point is Dublin will be looked after before Cork with regards lucrative routes, until Cork gets massively greater autonomy the airlines will continue to leave (not many left now) and the route network will continue to become a leisure focused one.

Business' in Cork particularly the MNC's are not happy with the choice of destinations ex-Cork, this needs to change. The route network when compared with 2007-2008 has changed quite a bit those routes should be pressed on with focus on hub routes also. I see no reason why BA, Lufthansa or Turkish couldn't operate from Cork the entity in the way is the DAA maybe leave out BA and to a lesser extent Lufthansa.

Just wanted to say also going by the recent trends at Aer Lingus - Supporting Virgin's plan for competition with BA ex-Heathrow and Aer Lingus taking on BA on the Belfast City-Heathrow route and with BA re-launching Dublin I wouldn't be too surprised to hear an announcement in 2013.
Jack1985 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.