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CORK - 5

Old 16th Apr 2012, 08:27
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There is no doubt that parking restrictions at Cork have greatly increased in recent years. For example in the 1990's wide bodied aircraft could frequently park near the old terminal. Further more the South Ramp which was for many years the Airports unofficial General Aviation Park is now only allowed to cater for one small size business jet.

There is also restrictions on General Aviation flights parking in the vicinity of Commercial traffic and I'm told that this policy is also problematic as some of the larger executive types such as the BBJ and A319 are not allowed park in the stands South of Stand 5.

The problem at Cork is that the airport authority has marked all of the apron stands with Commercial airliners in mind. The IAA/DAA are said to have a one stand one aircraft rule which in effect means that if two Be200's arrive they must each occupy stands more suitable for commercial airliners. Added to this aircraft are charged premium parking rates as after 50 years, Cork still doesn't have any remote parking areas or General Aviation Ramp.

Whether these restrictions are as a result of IAA guidelines, directives or formal notams is a mute point. The fact is that red tape often wins out over common sense in the Cork Airport of 2012. Ultimately it is the airport authority's responsibility to make what ever changes in infrastructure that are needed to cater for its customers. However this doesn't appear to be happening when it comes to parking provision.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 12:48
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There is yet another rumor abound that Cork ATC, which is again controlled by the Irish Aviation Authority, will allow only two light aircraft in the circuit at Cork for training
Yes this has been the case with around 5 years I think.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 12:50
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Francis OMahony

the address does not matter, I know cork companys who have dublin address which I think is for convenence
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 15:50
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return to the real world

Francis, the address does matter, as TTT is using his typical hyperbole to blame Shannon for all ORK failures.

It's as if some conspiracy exists that the outside evil forces ( be it the DAA or IAA) have a total department of people paid to dream up ways to put Cork airport down.

Seems that these staff are employed in the Terminal Building in Shannon, staffed only by people jilted at the altar twice by former Cork Airport employees.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 16:55
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The odd part is that if you read the Shannon thread, people are convinced there is a Dublin conspiracy against Shannon. It must be some organisation to conspire both in favour of Shannon and against it simultaneously.

If we're all realistic about it, the loss of the KLM 777 was not a big deal compared to getting a single extra frequency a week on an existing route.

The GA business looks like a screw up entirely of the making of the management at Cork Airport. If the restrictions are excessive, management should be lobbying the IAA and relevant politicians/government departments. If they're not (and I won't make assumptions either way), they should have been planning round them years ago.

Even now, they could easily lease a portion of the airfield for GA business to another operator. They get the landing fees and the lease income, but don't have to worry about capital expenditure. And the extra income would be a nice boost.

Of course, that assumes there's a profit to be made from the GA business, and maybe there isn't, which would explain the lack of activity on that front.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 17:50
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The suggestion that part of the airfield should be leased to a private operator is worth pursuing. Parking charges should also be looked at as they to be competitive with other airports in Munster.

On another topic I'd be doubtful about Cork's ability to stay above 2 million if the economy contracts any further. Water Charges, Household Charges, rumours of a property tax and having to pay for Water meters will all eating into peoples income.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 18:33
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It would probably take the withdrawal if a based aircraft to drop that low. Still, both support for existing routes and any growth is going to have to be driven by business travel, returning VFR and inbound tourism for 3+ years. Aside from stealing passengers from KIR, SNN, WAT or DUB, it's hard to see any growth in the domestic leisure market.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 18:36
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Aside from stealing passengers from KIR, SNN, WAT or DUB, it's hard to see any growth in the domestic leisure marke
That works both ways and in particular the UK market.

Suraly CAA could push Wizz to start either PRG or BUD? THere was talk of it before.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 18:52
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I cant understand how their not letting BBJ's or A319 biz jets etc park from Stands 5 through to 1 they're has been an A319 visiting fairly regularly the last while and its parking on either Stand 20 or 18 every time. I've only ever seen it once on Stand 3! Stand 15 is used regularly by Biz Jets as well, stand 5 from June 1st to August 31st this year wont be available for night stopping biz jets due to the basing of the second Ryanair B738. Don't see what the problem is with throwing an A319 or BBJ onto the other stands when available jump back to 03/04, Aer Lingus A321's would regularly use those stands.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 19:44
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Issues relating to airport security come into play once you move north of stand 5. I don't want to say too much about these sensitive issues but it's been claimed that they are more stringently imposed at Cork than at Shannon possibly due to the fact that Shannon stands to lose a lot more business if they start hassling Corporate Jet passengers.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 20:22
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What a load of Cork paranoia. Typical TTT OTT.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 23:47
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There are very few, if any GA overnights in Shannon.. Most Shannon GA are fuel and catering stops with US CBD en route west.

I thing we are risking taking seriously a non-event.
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Old 20th Apr 2012, 08:15
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In the Dublin thread Akerosid makes an interesting remark something like that all of the aggressive marketing has paid off - I think his comment is generally in relation to Emirates planning on introducing the Boeing 777 on the Dubai - Dublin route from May, 2012 which is earlier than planned.

Has there been much aggressive marketing of Cork Airport in recent times? It is becoming clear now that a lot of the Cork passenger business is becoming more summer seasonal so in a way it would be easier to attract summer only new business at, for example, two weekly flights. This should surely make it easier for the marketing department at Cork to score - just follow the Ryanair example and concentrate on developing summer only routes for the period from say, mid June to August. Got to be a small few wealthier points in the northern half of Europe and, say, Switzerland where some cajoling would bring in the goods for even Cork Airport, or again, is it the case where any likely new traffic and the DAA may want it all funnelled through Taj Mahal Terminal Dublin?

Cork Airport has got to be able to do better than it has done - get a few tourists in spending a few Euro - even if it means sharing one pint between two and old favourites like that!

Try harder for pity's sake - the terminal is just too quiet at times.
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Old 20th Apr 2012, 16:33
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TTT Cork Airport's hands are tied by the DAA especially the Marketing Dept. Why do you think JS left - saying nothing else. Everything he worked for in such a short space has been lost...
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Old 20th Apr 2012, 17:32
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Cork Marketing

We had Zurich from Aerlingus as far back as the 1980's. What ever happened to the French Charters that used to arrive every weekend in the Spring and early Summer. Since 2005 Czech Airlines, Malev, Easyjet, Thompsonfly, Air South West, Sky Europe, Loganair and BMI Baby have all left and there's also been a huge drop in the number of Charter destinations lost.

Routes lost since 2006 include Dublin, Belfast, Cardiff, Leeds, Prague, Budapest, Berlin, Madrid , Bratislavia, East Midlands, Southampton, Plymouth and Exeter.

There have been some gains as well such as Lisbon, Brussells, Pis, Vilnius and several Polish Cities. However there is a sense that the airport is drifting.

There's no doubt that the Economic collapse has played a part in this but it doesn't tell the whole story. John Smyth was the former Aerlingus Manager for most of Continental Europe before he came to Cork. He had contacts in every part of the airline industry and the travel trade particularly in the U.K and Ireland.
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Old 20th Apr 2012, 17:40
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Francis OMahony

So true, the day they left J.S. go has come back to haunt them.
his replacement has still learning nothing
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Old 21st Apr 2012, 01:13
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Czech Airlines - nearly bankrupt
Malev - bankrupt
Thompsonfly - LCC division closed
Air South West - bankrupt
Sky Europe - bankrupt
BMI Baby - nearly bankrupt

Which brings us to...

Loganair - the right size aircraft for short anorexic routes, such as:

Belfast x2 daily
Cardiff x daily
Southampton x 4 weekly
Exeter x 3 weekly

Leeds, Prague, Budapest, Berlin, Madrid
These need EI or FR to start thinking about them again.

Taj Mahal Terminal Dublin
Tom, do us all a favour and start focusing on the strengths of Cork, and leave the tired and overused anologies for another place- they really weaken your arguement.

Cork has a fantastic terminal - perhaps the best airport in Ireland, without doubt the best regional airport in Europe. When the economy picks up, so will the airport.
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Old 21st Apr 2012, 07:08
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Thumbs up

Thank you for the injection of reality Copenhagen!
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Old 21st Apr 2012, 08:45
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Prague and/or Budapest could be potential Wizz destinations and Bratislava could also for Ryanair given the large Slovak population here. There's no doubt that the Motorway to Dublin is also having a big impact even though if people took the increase in the cost of petrol into account, the cost of tolls and parking fees at Dublin into account they might think again. I recently met some one who paid just €125 to fly Dublin Zurich return. However the overnight was €75. Say petrol cost €60 and tolls €12, total cost € 262.

I reckon he could have flown on a full service codeshare via LHR or AMS for a miserable €38 extra and save himself a lot of driving. However most people don't look beyond the headline fare.
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Old 21st Apr 2012, 09:21
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I think a lot has been overlooked, Cork, itself, has what could be termed a "Taj Mahal" terminal building, car park, etc. It is a truly fantastic facility from a customer & passenger perspective. Compare it to the likes of EMA, LBA, etc there is absolutely no comparison. Whatever Cork's problems the Terminal and T2 at Dublin are not really part of it.
In an ideal world the provision of catering and retail facilities would be reviewed and an enlarged security queue area would not go amiss, but its only really necessary at peak times, the number of scanners seems adequate. Personally I think most of the resturant area should be airside, getting people through the airport more quickly and increasing revenue in terms of spend. It works well in many UK airports.

Speaking of refreshement facilities. I note with interest that the HMS run "Cork Coffee Roasters" sells machine coffee (dont know where the beans are from) at Starbucks prices. The stuff is truly dreadful swill. Both organisations should be ashamed of themselves, especially CCR who have worked very hard to gain a deserved reputation as "the best coffee in Cork".

The biggest issue is clearly marketing. ORK needs to work with Failte Ireland, the Airlines and at trade events really drumming up a lot of noise on the continent. Most Corkonians know where the airport is, personally I think advertising on 96FM is a bit of a waste.
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