Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

CORK - 5

Old 17th Apr 2011, 12:06
  #2881 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ireland
Posts: 71
what are load factors like for Munich, Newcastle, Newquay and Plymouth?

Is there still 4 Aer Lingus aircraft based at Cork and is there still a A321 operating the heathrow route?

Last edited by Johnny455; 17th Apr 2011 at 12:27.
Johnny455 is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2011, 15:43
  #2882 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,348
No A321's at Cork. Aer Lingus have only 3 left in there fleet which are all in Dublin.

NCL figures are based on CAA stats, B733 (148 seats) and 16 flights for March.

65% load factor.

Not bad for a route which is dependent on weekend traffic.

Last edited by Jamie2k9; 17th Apr 2011 at 16:03.
Jamie2k9 is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2011, 13:24
  #2883 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,167
Load Factors for MUC, NCL, NQY, PLY - MAR 2011:

MUC | 71%
NCL | 66%
NQY | 39% **
PLH | 39% **

** - Routes only recommenced on 15 March 2011, figures in March are usually low generally on all carriers.

Not bad for a route which is dependent on weekend traffic.
Well said Jamie, the route totally depends on weekend travellers and during Aug -> June , on Newcastle/Sunderland football fans too.
Jack1985 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2011, 10:09
  #2884 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cork
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by 840
Two reasons why CDG has never developed the business traffic of AMS.

One is the flight timings.

AMS allows for flying out in the morning and back in the evenings, even if on different days. This helps keep business costs down, making travel both more practical and keeping rates charged by businesses more competitive.

The second is cultural.

It's a lot easier to work in The Netherlands and Belgium through English.

If you ever travel regularly on the Amsterdam flight, you'll see that there are 20-30 faces that are on the Amsterdam flight every Monday morning. Most work in the Pharmaceutical Consulting and IT Consulting sectors and fly out every week returning on a Thursday or Friday. As we're not known as the greatest polyglots, those opportunities are not as prevalent in France.

The AMS route also seems to get a lot of usage from Kerry Foods. I'm not sure what that's about, but I imagine they must have significant operations in The Netherlands. Thankfully, they don't make so much usage that anyone is laying on a flight to Farranfore!
Your point about timings is spot on. Two flights a day, early and late is fantastic, and I would certainly look to AMS rather than CDG (or even LHR for that matter) if I was flying onwards as well.

From an individual working in Holland/Belgium v France, you're second point is valid. However, from a company sending its employees over point of view, I don't think that is particularly a consideration. That said, I had to fly ORK-AMS-PRG return last month for IT consultant business, and I was surprised at the numbers of construction related passengers who were travelling over for work in Holland. I knew some of them as they worked for PM and others. Another friend of mine spent the last 20 months travelling back and forwards from Cork to Liverpool and Manchester. He's moving onto a Brussels project soon.
Aisle2c is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2011, 20:34
  #2885 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Cork losses

Reports that Cork lost 10 million euro in 2010 are very disturbing. Is this due to continued repayments on the new terminal which is now almost 5 years old. I presume these are charged to Cork's account by the DAA.

It's hard to see how it could be down to operational losses. However the puzzling decision to operate Cork on a 24 hour basis since the late 90's must also be a huge drain on it's finances particularly as nothing moves for over 6 hours apart from a freighter which lands around 0500.

Can't see MAG or any other private owner tolerating this practice.
ryan2000 is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2011, 23:26
  #2886 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,167
Ryan2000, just to say what you have said is probably 100% accurate. Every single person at Cork Airport, has asked why the airport is 24hrs operational, but for a number of reasons it is,

1) The Airport is classed as ''Priority 1 - EMG'' for all traffic crossing Below Cork, Kerry, Waterford, Wexford etc... which need to land asap.

2) When the new Terminal was built Subway wanted the new Terminal to be 24hrs, so they could make money of people passing from the City to Kinsale who regularly pop in and have a bite to eat, as do Gardai & the Airport Police.

Also just to say, there was a rumour going around the airport that MAG where intrested, as the money lost last year consits near soley of the debt still remaning to be re-paid. I think if the airport was to be sold either the DAA/Gov would have to take on the debt, before MAG or anyone else would even consider putting in an offer, for an airport which has huge potential.
Jack1985 is offline  
Old 25th Apr 2011, 17:08
  #2887 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,348
I see Cork Airport has started advertising on radio stations in the South East. They are promoting many routes such as Paris, Milan, London, Liverpool, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Lisbon as well as stating that they serve over 50 destinations. Lets hope it pays off.

Also just taking a look at passenger numbers released on anna.
Jan - 142,138 - down 18,160 on Jan 2010
Feb - 132,583 - down 37,741 on Feb 2010
Jamie2k9 is offline  
Old 25th Apr 2011, 17:45
  #2888 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 730
Also just taking a look at passenger numbers released on anna.
Jan - 142,138 - down 18,160 on Jan 2010
Feb - 132,583 - down 37,741 on Feb 2010
We mustn't forget that the Manx2 incident occurred in February and the airport was closed for 2 full days if I recall correctly (or was it 3??), which undoubtedly affected figures for Feb 2011.

It's hard to see how it could be down to operational losses. However the puzzling decision to operate Cork on a 24 hour basis since the late 90's must also be a huge drain on it's finances particularly as nothing moves for over 6 hours apart from a freighter which lands around 0500.
Yes, as far as I know the loss is primarily caused by having to service the debt from the new terminal. So much for the DAA saying that Cork could easily afford to pay it! Most diversions go to Shannon anyway so it does seem strange having to stay open 24 hours. There are often flights arriving & departing during the early hours of the morning during the summer season, particularly when the charters get going, but there really is no need to have it open 24 hours during the winter.
en2r is offline  
Old 25th Apr 2011, 18:46
  #2889 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,167
Jan - 142,138 - down 18,160 on Jan 2010
Feb - 132,583 - down 37,741 on Feb 2010
Finally it looks like the figures could acctually be on a path to growth from April!! you must take into account beside the cancellations for upto 2 days between 10th & 12th Feb 11' after the Manx2 incident, in 2010 EI had a 4th A/C, there where significantly more FR flights, aswell as bmibaby flights to EMA & MAN! if anything from these figures its showing LF on flights is significantly improving...
Jack1985 is offline  
Old 28th Apr 2011, 22:09
  #2890 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,348
Mar - 162,571 - down 34,554 on Mar 2010

Ryanair have started to load there winter flights.
ACE and TFS will continue this winter as well as AGP and FUE but FAO has being dropped. Not bookable yet but show as operating.

SNN - CDG back bookable the same as last winter but ORK - CDG flights yest to be changed.
Jamie2k9 is offline  
Old 29th Apr 2011, 12:55
  #2891 (permalink)  
840
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland nowadays
Posts: 1,412
That's a pretty awful figure for March. While February could be put down to the Manx2 crash, the same can't be said for March.

The best you could do is say that because Easter was at the start of April last year the 2010 figure includes some Easter traffic.

April should be a bit better as Aer Lingus have more capacity than last year (same number of A320s and one more ATR for April) and Easter puts all its traffic into April this year.

Now we have to see if the capacity is filled.
840 is offline  
Old 2nd May 2011, 23:30
  #2892 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ireland
Posts: 79
Mar - 162,571 - down 34,554 on Mar 2010

Ryanair have started to load there winter flights.
ACE and TFS will continue this winter as well as AGP and FUE but FAO has being dropped. Not bookable yet but show as operating.

SNN - CDG back bookable the same as last winter but ORK - CDG flights yest to be changed.


where can you see this info jamie?cant see it on ryanair website at all.cant see nov flights for any routes!!
peba is offline  
Old 5th May 2011, 12:58
  #2893 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,625
It may be more appropriate in the Spotting Forum but I am sure the moderators will not mind too much if I report that the Aer Lingus Retorjet is due to pay her first visit to Cork later today in the form of the EI845 from Amsterdam. It is thought she will be flying from Cork for a bit - now if that is a few days or a few days more I am not sure but I am sure she will be a nice aircraft to view anyway. Now, whether the sun shines on her at Cork or not - well that is another question all together!
Tom the Tenor is offline  
Old 5th May 2011, 19:51
  #2894 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,167
Confirmed, EI-DVM is due in at 21:30 from Amsterdam - Will be operating the ORK-FAO-ORK-CDG-ORK-LIS-ORK sector tommorow, i think its hear for the next two weeks not sure, although bad news Tom is that the weather is bad until Monday , cant wait too see her on the ramp tommorow will be an od sight!
Jack1985 is offline  
Old 5th May 2011, 23:53
  #2895 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,348
EI have released most of their winter Cork flights. It suggest 3 based A320 and 2 ATR's.

BHX - 2 daily
BRS - daily (operates W to SNN 6 of 7 weekly)
EDI - daily
GLA - 4 weekly
LHR - 4 daily
LGW - daily (LGW based, afternoon and early evening departures)
MAN - 2 daily
GVA - 2 weekly (up 1, 1 DUB based, 1 ORK based)
ACE - 3 weekly
AGP - 4 weekly
TFS - ??
AMS - 13 weekly
MUC - 2 weekly
CDG - daily (operates a W to SNN, times yet to be changed)

4 a/c will leave around 6 Nov. BCN, ALC, FCO will all contuine for the first week in November.
Jamie2k9 is offline  
Old 7th May 2011, 20:54
  #2896 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Cork figures

April up 25% Year so far - 7%. Late Easter and lack of volcanic ash the reason for the most spectacular monthly increase for quite some time. The year to date figure is a more accurate indication of the way things are going. Can somebody get us a link with Central Europe. Prague, Budapest, Vienna or even Berlin? It's a huge gap in the market. We had all 4 at one stage if Bratislava is an acceptable substitue for Vienna.
ryan2000 is offline  
Old 10th May 2011, 08:45
  #2897 (permalink)  
840
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland nowadays
Posts: 1,412
The Irish Times has a story on new incentives being offered at the DAA group airport

Incentives to airlines will include €3 tax waiver - The Irish Times - Tue, May 10, 2011

It's a bit confusing as stands as it appears to punish the incumbents. They get the passenger numbers to the 2010 levels and the new entrants get the benefit.

I assume this is sloppy reporting rather than the actual case.
840 is offline  
Old 10th May 2011, 11:25
  #2898 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 993
Good figures there. Hopefully a sign that things are stabilising - which is about the best we can hope for at the current time.

People have mentioned VIE, PRG, etc and that the bucket and spade routes are overserved. I would say that airlines are following the Market, where people actualy want to go, rather than where we think people should go. City breaks took a hard fall in the recession. People are less likely to forgo their week in the sun though.
Ireland just does NOT provide good value for tourists. There are any number of operators who operate 'ideal' 100 seat aircraft, haven't touched Cork. Probably for a reason. The last attempt was Brussells Airlines, that didn't last long. At least ACE, AGP, NCE, FAO are back year after year!
brian_dromey is offline  
Old 10th May 2011, 12:32
  #2899 (permalink)  
840
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland nowadays
Posts: 1,412
I think the current airport duopoly doesn't help with that though.

There is a perception (with good reason) that any new entrant will provoke a reaction from either Aer Lingus or Ryanair.

But yet, routes that are more dependent on inbound than outbound tourists don't interest them as it provides marketing hassle. This is espacially true in the case of Aer Lingus. One advert can tell people a whole array of places that Aer Lingus fly from Cork. Should they launch a route like Dusseldorf, they spend the same amount for a route that may only be flown 2 or 3 times a week.

I'm a bit doubtful about the claims of Ireland being an expensive destination. It's probably true of the restaurant sector, but the price of attractions and so on are competitive and our hotels now offer some of the best value for money in Europe (on a recent business trip to Dublin I spent E52 per night on a decent 3*, in February, I spent E27.50 pppn for a B&B rate at a 4* in Sligo).

I think there are two things that have been killing our tourism from overseas - a lack of infratructure for independent travellers and also after lower emigration from 1990 to 2008 fewer Irish returning to take holidays at home. I guess the second one won't be a problem for much longer though.
840 is offline  
Old 10th May 2011, 14:50
  #2900 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 993
As someone who now lives in the UK (have done for about 5 years) the reality is that Transport, Taxi, Food, Dining, Drink, Shopping, Attraction prices are a lot more than comparable prices in the UK. The perception in the UK is that "Ireland is great, but soo expensive" in the same way Scandinavia is thought of as expensive. The other problem is there is a distinct lack of mid-range options on the streets and in cafe's, etc. There is either the super-cheap fast food, or fairly pricy dining, very little affordable casual dining. Even Milano would be a fair bit more than the identical Pizza Express in the UK.
This does turn people off. In fairness prices have become a lot more realistic in the past 12 months, but there is still a long way to go to be competitive and change the perceptions.
brian_dromey is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.