LIVERPOOL - 2
Join Date: May 2007
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Al
Unfortunately you can still not see common sense and yes, you have criticised staff, you all but named one. By the way, how do you know who he/she was? Most pax wouldnt have a clue.
So far, you have criticised Airport Management and Airport Ground Staff, despite their best efforts. Curiously the same airline cancelled many other flights from around the Country. Criticism here is missing. The airline has done this through operational expediency leaving many upset. Yet none more so than yourself, who actually arrived home with only very minor discomfort and to the airport of your choice, denied to many. I think i'm correct in stating that NO major airport was unaffected by the weather conditions. If your flight had diverted, would you still have blamed LPL? would you have accepted that it was bad airport management or merely bad weather. How would you know. How do you know other airports have closed which could have remained open with more facilities/staff or better management etc. Or would you simply have just put it down to the weather conditions.
I am not in the industry nor was I at any airport during this period. However I am a very regular pax. I also appreciate hard work that (the majority of) staff undertake, and at this time in very adverse conditions in what is a low paid industry. I've no way of knowing, but it appears that the majority if not all of the staff arrived for work despite the conditions. Yet I do know that many in the emergency services were unable to cope. Perhaps that puts a bit more perspective on the situation that airports were experiencing.
You have also not critised Sky, BBC and the weather forecasting system for getting the weather forecast wrong. I appreciate that they are quite often wide of the mark in the Merseyside/Cheshire areas and yesterdays 'light rain' which turned into the areas heaviest snowfall for over 25 years is evidence of this. Again forecasting in this area is not straightforward so it is understandable.
Why can't you give a little and just appreciate the hard work by all concerned. A couple of work colleagues appear to have landed at a similar time to yourself, albeit not on the same flight. They had nothing but praise, despite the shortcomings, hence my own response.
Despite my sarcasm (by the way, sarcasm is not childish, but purile comments could be), the basic tenet remains the same. How much extra are you prepared to pay to provide the services that you demand? I have a feeling that the answer would be nothing. Perhaps there is an axe to grind.
My road was not gritted, but thats the weather. I dont have many local facilities, but then again I'm not prepared to pay for exhortionate rises in council tax. So for the odd inconvenience I can live with it. I am sure that airports undertake a cost/risk analysis of what they provide. I doubt what you want would be palatable to any airport on the cost element alone. Everything in this life can be improved - again how much are you willing to pay for it, particularly for such rare events.
Merry Christmas (or bah humbug if that is your preference)
Unfortunately you can still not see common sense and yes, you have criticised staff, you all but named one. By the way, how do you know who he/she was? Most pax wouldnt have a clue.
So far, you have criticised Airport Management and Airport Ground Staff, despite their best efforts. Curiously the same airline cancelled many other flights from around the Country. Criticism here is missing. The airline has done this through operational expediency leaving many upset. Yet none more so than yourself, who actually arrived home with only very minor discomfort and to the airport of your choice, denied to many. I think i'm correct in stating that NO major airport was unaffected by the weather conditions. If your flight had diverted, would you still have blamed LPL? would you have accepted that it was bad airport management or merely bad weather. How would you know. How do you know other airports have closed which could have remained open with more facilities/staff or better management etc. Or would you simply have just put it down to the weather conditions.
I am not in the industry nor was I at any airport during this period. However I am a very regular pax. I also appreciate hard work that (the majority of) staff undertake, and at this time in very adverse conditions in what is a low paid industry. I've no way of knowing, but it appears that the majority if not all of the staff arrived for work despite the conditions. Yet I do know that many in the emergency services were unable to cope. Perhaps that puts a bit more perspective on the situation that airports were experiencing.
You have also not critised Sky, BBC and the weather forecasting system for getting the weather forecast wrong. I appreciate that they are quite often wide of the mark in the Merseyside/Cheshire areas and yesterdays 'light rain' which turned into the areas heaviest snowfall for over 25 years is evidence of this. Again forecasting in this area is not straightforward so it is understandable.
Why can't you give a little and just appreciate the hard work by all concerned. A couple of work colleagues appear to have landed at a similar time to yourself, albeit not on the same flight. They had nothing but praise, despite the shortcomings, hence my own response.
Despite my sarcasm (by the way, sarcasm is not childish, but purile comments could be), the basic tenet remains the same. How much extra are you prepared to pay to provide the services that you demand? I have a feeling that the answer would be nothing. Perhaps there is an axe to grind.
My road was not gritted, but thats the weather. I dont have many local facilities, but then again I'm not prepared to pay for exhortionate rises in council tax. So for the odd inconvenience I can live with it. I am sure that airports undertake a cost/risk analysis of what they provide. I doubt what you want would be palatable to any airport on the cost element alone. Everything in this life can be improved - again how much are you willing to pay for it, particularly for such rare events.
Merry Christmas (or bah humbug if that is your preference)
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harbour cotter
To take your points in order -
1) He was wearing a bright orange hi-viz vest saying "Head of Airport Services". I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the last word but it quite clearly beagan and ended with S. I doubt that many at LPL wear these.
2) I have NOT criticised ground staff, I think they were perfectly correct in refusing to work in icy conditions and it was encumbent on the airport to observe their duty of care to those staff to provide a safe working environment, they failed to do so.
I am aware that EZY, as well as many others, cancelled flights due to weather factors, not operational expediency eg it was not tech problems, I met several pax at AMS who were stranded, but I can only comment on the circumstances around my flight, nobody else's as I was not involved in them. That many were adversely affected should not deflect from my valid criticism of the airport's unpreparedness to fully accept incoming flights in circumstances that were not only forseeable but had been forecast days before, I had been watching various forecasts, including the BBC, which all pointed towards severe weather, Amsterdam on saturday was at -10C and sunday was not a great deal better. This severe weather was all across northern Europe and going into Spain and Italy, did LPL think it would exist in a bubble? You may be correct in saying no major airport was unaffected but what has that to do with the price of fish? I was talking about LPL. In the same way I consider your introduction of hypothetical situations to be specious, I am commenting on what ACTUALLY happened.
3) Like yourself I am a frequent flier, mostly out of MAN, LPL, BFS, GLA & LBA on both short and long haul. I am also ex-RAF and have seen first hand the preparations to be made in case of adverse weather, there should be no difference between military and commercial airfield preparations for adverse conditions.Your mention of pay I see as a red herring, the person making the decisions as to whether to anti-ice or not should be someone on min wage don't you think? The staff did indeed turn up but were not prepared to risk their health and safety because someone on far more money than them had made the wrong decision.
The emergency services were so unable to cope they had firemen shovelling snow from the path to enable pax to disembark safely. erroneous point harbour.
4) The forecasts generally were correct. Additionally, the airport ops side will have had access to more detailed forecasting than available to us and there should have been reports coming from the ground as to deteriorating conditions.
5)I appreciate the hard work of all but criticise the plonker who made the wrong anti-ice decision. What your mates think is entirely a matter for them.
6) I will pay whatever it takes, I can only do so if it is asked but locos such as RYR demand lower & lower fees. This may result in airports making penny pinching decisions such as not spending on anti-ice fluid and manpower to spread it. If the ticket price becomes too high for me to afford I wont fly, easy. No axe to grind other that against the plonker who made the wrong call.
7) If your local authority provides inadequate services you should take it up with them, if you want crap services/facilities because you are too tight to pay for any better that is up to you, I take a different view. In this case the airport may have undertaken a cost/risk exercise but they got it wrong, in this case the risk would fall to the ground handlers had they continued t work but hey, life is cheap, that's why we pay them so little?
Now try it on aircraft safety basis, no matter how rare.
My preference is for a Merry and safe Xmas.
1) He was wearing a bright orange hi-viz vest saying "Head of Airport Services". I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the last word but it quite clearly beagan and ended with S. I doubt that many at LPL wear these.
2) I have NOT criticised ground staff, I think they were perfectly correct in refusing to work in icy conditions and it was encumbent on the airport to observe their duty of care to those staff to provide a safe working environment, they failed to do so.
I am aware that EZY, as well as many others, cancelled flights due to weather factors, not operational expediency eg it was not tech problems, I met several pax at AMS who were stranded, but I can only comment on the circumstances around my flight, nobody else's as I was not involved in them. That many were adversely affected should not deflect from my valid criticism of the airport's unpreparedness to fully accept incoming flights in circumstances that were not only forseeable but had been forecast days before, I had been watching various forecasts, including the BBC, which all pointed towards severe weather, Amsterdam on saturday was at -10C and sunday was not a great deal better. This severe weather was all across northern Europe and going into Spain and Italy, did LPL think it would exist in a bubble? You may be correct in saying no major airport was unaffected but what has that to do with the price of fish? I was talking about LPL. In the same way I consider your introduction of hypothetical situations to be specious, I am commenting on what ACTUALLY happened.
3) Like yourself I am a frequent flier, mostly out of MAN, LPL, BFS, GLA & LBA on both short and long haul. I am also ex-RAF and have seen first hand the preparations to be made in case of adverse weather, there should be no difference between military and commercial airfield preparations for adverse conditions.Your mention of pay I see as a red herring, the person making the decisions as to whether to anti-ice or not should be someone on min wage don't you think? The staff did indeed turn up but were not prepared to risk their health and safety because someone on far more money than them had made the wrong decision.
The emergency services were so unable to cope they had firemen shovelling snow from the path to enable pax to disembark safely. erroneous point harbour.
4) The forecasts generally were correct. Additionally, the airport ops side will have had access to more detailed forecasting than available to us and there should have been reports coming from the ground as to deteriorating conditions.
5)I appreciate the hard work of all but criticise the plonker who made the wrong anti-ice decision. What your mates think is entirely a matter for them.
6) I will pay whatever it takes, I can only do so if it is asked but locos such as RYR demand lower & lower fees. This may result in airports making penny pinching decisions such as not spending on anti-ice fluid and manpower to spread it. If the ticket price becomes too high for me to afford I wont fly, easy. No axe to grind other that against the plonker who made the wrong call.
7) If your local authority provides inadequate services you should take it up with them, if you want crap services/facilities because you are too tight to pay for any better that is up to you, I take a different view. In this case the airport may have undertaken a cost/risk exercise but they got it wrong, in this case the risk would fall to the ground handlers had they continued t work but hey, life is cheap, that's why we pay them so little?
I doubt what you want would be palatable to any airport on the cost element alone.
My preference is for a Merry and safe Xmas.
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Easyjet and Liverpool
Easyjets CEO at Liverpool Andy Harrison said he sees no saturation point for growth in budget air travel – or in capacity at Liverpool John Lennon airport.The airline is the biggest by passenger numbers at JLA, carrying 2.5m passengers a year, and later this year it will celebrate its 25 millionth passenger through Liverpool since its arrival in 1997.It already bases nine aircraft at JLA and in June will add a 10th to service three new routes.Over the past three months we have flown 10% more people. “We have found it easier to win market share in a recession than in the good times.
“We are doing this in the teeth of a recession. In a more normal environment we expect to still move forward. There is no saturation point for us.”
Mr Harrison said Easyjet takes a longer-term view than rival Ryanair and sees long-term growth for JLA.
He said: “Easyjet is going to carry on growing in Liverpool.
“We have a much longer term philosophy. We don’t just move the planes around like butterflies.
“We have a number of ideas for Liverpool and there will be some new routes coming out in the next couple of months
“We are doing this in the teeth of a recession. In a more normal environment we expect to still move forward. There is no saturation point for us.”
Mr Harrison said Easyjet takes a longer-term view than rival Ryanair and sees long-term growth for JLA.
He said: “Easyjet is going to carry on growing in Liverpool.
“We have a much longer term philosophy. We don’t just move the planes around like butterflies.
“We have a number of ideas for Liverpool and there will be some new routes coming out in the next couple of months
Lots of cheap seats I hope
. The Steam Bucket is no fun on days like this.
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dont forget theres thousands of potential passengers who take the ferry to LPL as well. the market is not just the flybe be loads. (obviously those who take the ferry may well be more price sensitive or prefer not to fly.)
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Thats correct, think about all of passenger traffic from IOM to NW England and beyond and its a massive figure. Look what EZY did to the Belfast market. Its what EZY do - they take share on established routes - they are doing it now at MAN. Twice daily would be enough and take share from ferries and FLYBE. Also they can feed into the onward EZY LPL connections. It all makes sense for the airport and EZY and made possible by the runway extension.
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LPL to IOM!!! Wow that would be a short sector! It will be about 20 mins chock to chock on a good day!! No time for the paper on that one! Well, maybe just.
Anyone for a cheeky IOM/Tel Aviv?
I would be surprised if we start the route but I have been surprised before on more than one occasion!!
Anyone for a cheeky IOM/Tel Aviv?
I would be surprised if we start the route but I have been surprised before on more than one occasion!!
Join Date: Aug 2007
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can't see it happening. Wrong aircraft and the utilisation wouldn't make sense. Easy pulled NCL _ STN yet that had great loads challenged the rail with revenue yet they pulled it.
Flybe have that one just right.
Flybe have that one just right.
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Think about it - round trip in 1:10 - passengers are there and the competition is a ferry not a train or car and FLYBE. Great for the island too, 150,000 passengers a year for sure.
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passenger numbers:
Liverpool/Birkenhead Ferry 275,112 passengers (that's a daily seasonal service and weekend only in winter)
a similar number go to heysham (daily year round)
i think the above are foot passengers, and excludes vehicle passengers/drivers. might be wrong...
plus
Airports - MAN 142,252 & LPL 117,595
annual numbers
Liverpool/Birkenhead Ferry 275,112 passengers (that's a daily seasonal service and weekend only in winter)
a similar number go to heysham (daily year round)
i think the above are foot passengers, and excludes vehicle passengers/drivers. might be wrong...
plus
Airports - MAN 142,252 & LPL 117,595
annual numbers
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Look what EZY did to the Belfast market.
The city pair is now easyJets busiest UK route.
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New Ryanair Liverpool route to Szczecin announced.
Media Centre*|*Press Releases*|*Ryanair’s new flight to Poland sees JLA become joint top UK airport for Polish destinations
Media Centre*|*Press Releases*|*Ryanair’s new flight to Poland sees JLA become joint top UK airport for Polish destinations
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The CAA has released provisional passenger figures for January 2010 which show that 322,048 passengers passed through Liverpool an increase of 7.9% over January 2009 which is encouraging. However, the figures were still below the January 2008 & 2007 figures by about 40,000 passengers.
Liverpool was the ONLY major airport in the UK to show an increase in passenger figures in January 2010. The only other airports to show increases for January 2009 were Dundee, Manston and Tresco in the Scilly Isles.
Interestingly Manchester's passenger fgures for January 2010 are down 14% on January 2009 levels, with a moving annual total of 18.4 million passengers, a far cry from the days when tha MAT was 22 Million.
Liverpool was the ONLY major airport in the UK to show an increase in passenger figures in January 2010. The only other airports to show increases for January 2009 were Dundee, Manston and Tresco in the Scilly Isles.
Interestingly Manchester's passenger fgures for January 2010 are down 14% on January 2009 levels, with a moving annual total of 18.4 million passengers, a far cry from the days when tha MAT was 22 Million.