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LIVERPOOL - 2

Old 23rd Dec 2009, 09:26
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Well! harbour cotter that told him, btw I see the Daily Post are showing artist's impressions of the new 12m expansion, looks good. I know you've already posted this elsewhere.
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 09:58
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al446

You just don't realise how fortunate you were getting safely home at a time when so many pax were stranded. During the past few days many AMS flights wre cancelled altogether. You got home without undue delay when other pax were spending up to 30 hours sleeping on floors. With closures and severe disruption at LTN, STN, LCY, MAN & LHR many pax only got home due to the valiant efforts of the staff at those remaining airports including LPL that managed to remain open and take many diverts from the snoclos. Don't think your Easy captain would have been critical of LPL's ability to have taken his own company diverts from Southern England. Probably didn't even occur to you that this puts tremendous pressure on ramp staff de-icing all unexpected extra traffic and the remote stands brought into use. You should recognize and appreciate that LPL did extremely well in keeping its runway completely clear round the clock when others struggled.
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 10:04
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During the past few days many AMS flights wre cancelled altogether
More again today I notice.
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 10:58
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I do sympathise with you, when i got off of the FAO yesterday, the surface of the apron and the walkways (airside and landside) were attrocious.
Im amazed no-one slipped and injured themselves. Yes we are all fortunate to make landings into LPL whilst so many others are stranded, but how hard can it be to lay some grit on the key areas?

In other news, easyJet new route to Bodrum....
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 14:48
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but how hard can it be to lay some grit on the key areas?
Mr Keghead
Grit on airside areas? Dream on!

Seems like lots of people pulled their finger out to keep the operation going. Take notice of what harbour cotter and and kestrel 757 say. This weather makes things difficult for everybody.

Suzeman
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 17:39
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Al 446

Take a look at the thread with the title 'Same crap different day' in Passengers & SLF and you may realise just how fortunate you were.
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 18:50
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OK lots to go at but my view has not changed.

Grateful has been mentioned, however fortunate and thankful I will go with, I met some at AMS that had been stuck there since Sunday. But that has nothing to do with airfield ops at LPL which is where my criticism lies. I understand fully what the weather picture across Europe has been since 18/12/09 as should anyone in a senior management position at any airport in that area. If Schiphol could ant-ice why not LPL? They knew flights were due and the weather did not appear out of the blue, it was forecast and should have been prepared for. It wasn't.

This lack of prep meant that 2 EZY aircraft were on stand for far longer than they should have, possibly preventing them going back to pick up more pax who would have been either stranded or had their journeys disrupted to a greater extent than if suitable measures had been carried out.

I make the point of the head of airport services, not transport, driving the bus as I doubt that any ground handling staff would have driven it, if the ice was sufficient to hold us off from taxiing it was bad enough to make driving a vehicle such as that a risky business.

Yes, LPL did keep its r/w clear, it benefits from its location in that respect, like PIK, so anti-ice should not have been a prob, just keep required taxiways and apron free. They failed and that rests on the shoulders of head of airfield services I think.

Harbour Cotter-

Its impossible to prepare for every eventuality, unless of course money is no object. Each winter you could provide 500 staff and 50 vehicles, and in the summer staff could be employed to spray cold water on the tarmac and hold up parasols for the pax. That should ensure that most of the eventualities should be overcome. Oh by the way, airport tax will be 1000 per pax please.
Please dont reply to me until you have grown up.

To conclude, EZY did their bit in honouring their contract to fly me from AMS to LPL but JLA failed in their contract with EZY to provide a working stand to offload pax within forseeable wx limitations.

Let us have no apologists for slack airport management, it is a slippery slope, excuse the pun.
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 20:03
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I've flown in and out of 'GP over the last few days too.

Firstly, flying out pre-snow was a total nightmare thanks to the ongoing absolute shambles that the airport laughably call security.

It seems standard procedure now to form a huge queue of people snaking around departures, down the stairs etc and not to allow anyone out of that queue and down the final set of stairs before security unless they a ) are prepared to pay 3 for fast track access or b ) are about to miss their flight and are called through by one of the many wandering security bods.

An absolute joke.

On the way back I waiting almost 2 hours for my luggage but, considering the conditions, I shan't moan about that. For once. And good job to the airfield ops team for clearing 27 so I didn't have to sit at KEGUN any longer.

I was getting dizzy
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 20:21
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Firstly, flying out pre-snow was a total nightmare thanks to the ongoing absolute shambles that the airport laughably call security.
Hopefully the 12m being spent in that area should help.
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 20:40
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mouser

Before spending 12m it may be an idea to train staff not to be total bar stewards. Just an idea.
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 21:04
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Ben Keghead

You clearly know how to run airside ops better than the ramp guys. Perhaps you can tell us which other UK airfields use grit on their aprons.
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 21:36
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Before spending 12m it may be an idea to train staff not to be total bar stewards
Probably minimum wage, up at 3 in the morning would you have a happy smile on your chops, I don't think so, do you.
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 21:59
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LPL closed due to Snow

This was just reported by the BBC, does anyone know if there is any truth in it?
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 22:07
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looks like they are de-icing:
EGGP (LIVERPOOL)
SNOWTAM
FROM: 09/12/23 22:55
A) EGGP B) 12232255 C) 27 E)30M F)2/2/2 H) N/A T) RWY DE ICING IN PROGRESS)

METAR:
EGGP 232250Z 07005KT 2000 -RASN BKN004 OVC008 00/M00 Q0986
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 22:29
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SKY TV saying LPL now open again - 23:30
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 22:30
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See I don't have a problem with the shop floor staff at all, so don't agree with the criticism of them. It's the authority / system in place that's at fault.
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Old 23rd Dec 2009, 23:23
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I was on yesterday afternoon. The staff on the ground were all working very hard, yet we had to put up with a lot of moaning. perhaps next time we should just close??

What would you rather??
A) Have a 2 hour delay on the ground at the destination you were travelling to
B) End up hundreds of miles away from your final destination?
I know which I would rather do!

I was at Gatwick today and my flight was 10 mins late boarding and people were complaining! I couldn't believe it. Yet we still landed on time!

I consider myself very lucky that I've got to my destination for Christmas when there's so many that won't

Season's Greeting's to you all!
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Old 24th Dec 2009, 00:04
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BarTT

I have no doubt that ground staff were working very hard, I did not criticise them, I am sympathetic to them. I criticise the managers making the, perhaps, penny pinching decisions that ensured my ground delay.

Simply because others are experiencing greater problems does not mean that I have to wear a hair shirt or forego my voicing of observations on here. Those are that the LPL management FAILED to react to wx warnings leading to the discomfort of many pax and doing nothing to enhance the reputation of the airport. I dread to think what EZY will be reclaiming from this fiasco, the delay possibly led to cancellation of later flights out or, if not, would have led to greater wage bill. All avoidable.

I hope you get my drift.
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Old 24th Dec 2009, 01:00
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Kestrel 757
Im using the word "grit" as a way to describe de-icing procedures - which at Liverpool yesterday seemed to have been non existant. At 1630, several hours after any snow fall, there was large areas of untreated surfaces (the whole apron, alongside walkways between the car parks and the terminal) approaching the terminal from both the aircraft parking and the car parking. How someone didnt slip, and injure themselves in such discraceful conditions is beyond me.
Its not the staff's fault, the people in charge should have ensure that all such areas were clear, and remained clear throughout.
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Old 24th Dec 2009, 11:32
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Don't think it's any different elsewhere to be fair. I dropped someone off @ Liverpool yesterday lunctime, yes it was icy but having been at Manchester the evening before, the roads were just as bad and no obvious evidence of de-icing/gritting anywhere.

With regards to the weather yesterday evening, as far as I'm aware (and I'm only a mere mortal, SLF) there was nothing forecast worse than a bit of rain. The heavy snow we received yesterday evening was not expected - driving home from work yesterday evening at 10pm took me 1.5hrs, didn't see a single gritter or snowplough the whole journey - majority of which was down the M62...

Seems like it's the whole country that's affected, not just respective airport managements...
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