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Thomas Cook

Old 9th Oct 2012, 18:22
  #1361 (permalink)  
 
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I don't think 430 jobs over cabin crew and (?) pilots is too much of an exaggeration.
I meant the 430 jobs is an exaggeration of the amount of jobs that will be lost directly by the removal of only 5 aircraft from the fleet.

I understand is has become trendy to 'bash' those earning more than yourself, but these people have direct responsibility for the livelihoods of thousands of employees, the safety of their passengers and the satisfactory fulfilment of millions of people's holidays.
I would like to quote a section of what I said previously.

Fresh in my mind is obviously the instance of two weeks ago where servere delays were encountered accross several bases due to a mixture of technical, crewing and weather issues. Of course it took much longer to get back on track due to crewing hours.

Could any potential issues in the future lead to longer disruption and in fact could it cost the airline more in sub leasing aircraft to recover these delays.

I also would not be suprised if we will hear of an announcement soon of Thomas Cook closing it's ticketing desks at UK airports similar to the Thomson announcement last week.
Thomas Cook struggled to cope two weeks ago now how would it perform in 2013 if similar issues arrise with 430 fewer staff which apparently are linked directly to 5 aircraft being withdrawn from the fleet.

I'm not disagreeing that jobs do need to be cut to stem losses however those passengers affected this year may likely think again about using Thomas Cook for next year and if it happens again in 2013 due to an over cull of airline staff then they may not return to travel with them in the near future.

Annoy the customers then there will be less of them in future which will lead to less income. A correct balance needs to be found to ensure that the customer service and experience does not deteriorate as a result of these cuts.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 19:32
  #1362 (permalink)  
 
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I meant the 430 jobs is an exaggeration of the amount of jobs that will be lost directly by the removal of only 5 aircraft from the fleet.
I know and I said that 430 jobs probably isn't too far off. Considering one of the aircraft is a long haul 330.....that carries probably double that of a 320. With a long haul aircraft the crews operating it won't be as productive as when operating on the short haul fleet. Plus then 3 other aircraft and you probably aren't far short of that figure.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 20:36
  #1363 (permalink)  
 
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I suppose easyflyer if you come do think of it. It does depend on how many they employ per aircraft so to speak.

It is suprising how many extra staff they employ per aircraft in comparison to the low cost airlines.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 21:02
  #1364 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
I know and I said that 430 jobs probably isn't too far off. Considering one of the aircraft is a long haul 330.....that carries probably double that of a 320. With a long haul aircraft the crews operating it won't be as productive as when operating on the short haul fleet. Plus then 3 other aircraft and you probably aren't far short of that figure.
The long haul is a red herring. As in the other thread running in rumours it's 4 x 75's and 1 x 320 that are going
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 21:03
  #1365 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by mathers_wales_uk View Post
It is suprising how many extra staff they employ per aircraft in comparison to the low cost airlines.
Really? Why is it so surprising? Different flight schedule so different crew requirements. Different product and routes so different ground staff requirements.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 23:39
  #1366 (permalink)  
 
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The long haul is a red herring. As in the other thread running in rumours it's 4 x 75's and 1 x 320 that are going
Ok, maybe thats the case but how can you categorically say it's a red herring when you've heard just a rumour?

It is suprising how many extra staff they employ per aircraft in comparison to the low cost airlines.
These days it's not all that different in terms of short haul. But when you take long haul into account it becomes harder to take make that direct comparison. Whilst long haul trips with most carriers these days tend to be bullet like, there are still some longish trips that tie up crew for a while.
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Old 10th Oct 2012, 08:19
  #1367 (permalink)  
 
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Narrow -

Harriet Green was previously CEO at Premier Farnell, a successful plc with a market capitalisation of 600m+. She has moved to TC, a desperately-troubled group on the verge of bankruptcy, with a market cap of under 200m.

She had to be enticed to pick up this poisoned chalice, and one of the ways of doing it is to offer her a stake in the business, which is cost-free, but offers her potential gain if she is successful. It was probably accompanied by a lower salary than she would otherwise earn.

Issuing shares is no guarantee that a company won't go bust, but when it does, the holder of the shares gets nothing.

Sounds eminently sensible to me.
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Old 10th Oct 2012, 09:12
  #1368 (permalink)  
 
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LGS6753 talks total sense. It was very difficult indeed for Thomas Cook to find anyone prepared to risk taking on what was an organisation on the point of collapse.

You have to remember these sort of people totally commit to the businesses they run. I used to work for such organisations and they literally live and breath the problems 24/7. It's a thankless task and live-changing for some because of the pressure.

From someone who had been out of work several times in the past I fully understand the problems of the 430 people who will lose their jobs. It could have easily have been the whole workforce only 3 or 4 months ago, so some perspective is needed by everyone to save the business.
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Old 10th Oct 2012, 12:40
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LGS

I don't need you to tell me about the City, how it works, or share options.

I was a City trader for a few years, before I realised it was a crappy job - I then traded it for a crappier job in aviation.

Apart from your reference to Premier Farnell, everything else you mention is pure supposition.

How do you know she had to "be enticed to take up the poisoned chalice", or that " It was probably accompanied by a lower salary than she would otherwise earn"?

You are just guessing mate. Unless you're on the remuneration committee, or board of TCG, you just cannot have access to the details.
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Old 10th Oct 2012, 13:49
  #1370 (permalink)  
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You have to remember these sort of people totally commit to the businesses they run. I used to work for such organisations and they literally live and breath the problems 24/7. It's a thankless task and live-changing for some because of the pressure.
I'm not privy to Greens remuneration package but if I was earning possibly >x00k / annum with perhaps a 200% bonus and x00,000 shares options..... I'd be pretty "committed" What package would you want to take on TCG with 1 billion debt......and business model that's being continuously chipped away at by the LCC's? Would you leave a secure job to take it on without appropriate "compensation"? I doubt she's come "cheap".

A4
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Old 10th Oct 2012, 15:53
  #1371 (permalink)  
 
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Narrow -

Apart from your reference to Premier Farnell, everything else you mention is pure supposition.
Of course it is, because I'm not in the upper echelons of TC. But I'm not far wrong in my supposition, as you will be able to judge when the next TC annual report is published.
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Old 11th Oct 2012, 09:23
  #1372 (permalink)  
 
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LGS?

I really think you are having a laugh. You don't need to be a genius to realise that the TCG results are going to be poor.

Why do you think the shares are sub 20p? Because it is doing well?

The company has been mismanaged to within an ace of survival, it is going to be a long way back for them.

Harriet Green will do a better job at not ruining the company than her predecessors. It would be impossible not to.

The Elephant in the room for ALL businesses is this when it comes to "incentivising" management: Does it work? Does it really only encourage excess risk taking, or target fixation on one parameter?

Quite frankly, more incentive packages have not been successes than ones which have been.

Whilst jobs are being cut, excessive CEO pay and packages should be cut. It sets a rotten precedent.
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Old 11th Oct 2012, 14:23
  #1373 (permalink)  
 
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Narrow -

I agree with all that you say. But who will be the first to cut executive pay?

I think that question should remain rhetorical, as we're allowing this thread to drift a bit....
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 09:25
  #1374 (permalink)  
 
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does anyone know what a/c will be based at STN for next summer?
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 09:43
  #1375 (permalink)  
 
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1 A320 for STN S13
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 13:25
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Thanks, I did think it would be, the A321 a short lived idea!
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Old 15th Nov 2012, 09:38
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With all the chopping and changing does anyone know how many and what aircraft types are being based where in the UK for S13?
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Old 7th Dec 2012, 11:13
  #1378 (permalink)  
 
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Good to see the TCX share price staging a recovery, but wait, new CEO Harriet Green was lucky enough to buy 500000 shares last week at just 23p. This positivism encouraged other directors to take a punt, several wading in to rid their back pockets of troublesome loose change just before Christmas.
Hope they are still focused on running the business and not just looking after themselves.
Trebles all round in the boardroom.
Apologies to Private Eye

Last edited by MANTHRUST; 13th Dec 2012 at 21:57.
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Old 4th Jan 2013, 23:30
  #1379 (permalink)  
 
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Is CRPH going to be scrapped?
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Old 5th Jan 2013, 10:46
  #1380 (permalink)  
 
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Thats the plan, was sadly sitting on the apron at MAN in December awaiting its final fate. Not a moment too soon either.
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