Thomas Cook
There are some pretty naive comments on this thread. Thomas Cook is heaving under a mountain of debt. That has to be serviced ( = interest paid on it) and eventually repaid, possibly by further borrowing. The CEO and other senior managers are doing their best to ensure its survival, not just cutting jobs for the hell of it.
For any plc to survive it must retain the confidence of investors ( = the "City") and lenders ( = banks). If TC did not take these draconian measures, it would be bankrupt and every employee would lose their job. The company's core business (inclusive holidays) is in long-term decline, and diversification would be both expensive and high-risk.
I understand is has become trendy to 'bash' those earning more than yourself, but these people have direct responsibility for the livelihoods of thousands of employees, the safety of their passengers and the satisfactory fulfilment of millions of people's holidays.
For any plc to survive it must retain the confidence of investors ( = the "City") and lenders ( = banks). If TC did not take these draconian measures, it would be bankrupt and every employee would lose their job. The company's core business (inclusive holidays) is in long-term decline, and diversification would be both expensive and high-risk.
I understand is has become trendy to 'bash' those earning more than yourself, but these people have direct responsibility for the livelihoods of thousands of employees, the safety of their passengers and the satisfactory fulfilment of millions of people's holidays.
Last edited by LGS6753; 9th Oct 2012 at 17:52. Reason: formatting
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LGS
LGS,
Why should it appear naive to consider a brand new CEO accepting a multi million share issuance, as an "incentive", as anything other than an egregious slap in the face to the embattled employees?
Harriet Green has achieved nothing yet in TCG. That should be incentive enough to try and succeed.
Such share schemes have been issued to plenty of CEO's in the past, and guess what? Plenty of companies still go bust.
Naive? I don't think so.
Why should it appear naive to consider a brand new CEO accepting a multi million share issuance, as an "incentive", as anything other than an egregious slap in the face to the embattled employees?
Harriet Green has achieved nothing yet in TCG. That should be incentive enough to try and succeed.
Such share schemes have been issued to plenty of CEO's in the past, and guess what? Plenty of companies still go bust.
Naive? I don't think so.
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I don't think 430 jobs over cabin crew and (?) pilots is too much of an exaggeration.
I understand is has become trendy to 'bash' those earning more than yourself, but these people have direct responsibility for the livelihoods of thousands of employees, the safety of their passengers and the satisfactory fulfilment of millions of people's holidays.
Fresh in my mind is obviously the instance of two weeks ago where servere delays were encountered accross several bases due to a mixture of technical, crewing and weather issues. Of course it took much longer to get back on track due to crewing hours.
Could any potential issues in the future lead to longer disruption and in fact could it cost the airline more in sub leasing aircraft to recover these delays.
I also would not be suprised if we will hear of an announcement soon of Thomas Cook closing it's ticketing desks at UK airports similar to the Thomson announcement last week.
Could any potential issues in the future lead to longer disruption and in fact could it cost the airline more in sub leasing aircraft to recover these delays.
I also would not be suprised if we will hear of an announcement soon of Thomas Cook closing it's ticketing desks at UK airports similar to the Thomson announcement last week.
I'm not disagreeing that jobs do need to be cut to stem losses however those passengers affected this year may likely think again about using Thomas Cook for next year and if it happens again in 2013 due to an over cull of airline staff then they may not return to travel with them in the near future.
Annoy the customers then there will be less of them in future which will lead to less income. A correct balance needs to be found to ensure that the customer service and experience does not deteriorate as a result of these cuts.
I meant the 430 jobs is an exaggeration of the amount of jobs that will be lost directly by the removal of only 5 aircraft from the fleet.
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I suppose easyflyer if you come do think of it. It does depend on how many they employ per aircraft so to speak.
It is suprising how many extra staff they employ per aircraft in comparison to the low cost airlines.
It is suprising how many extra staff they employ per aircraft in comparison to the low cost airlines.
Quote:
I know and I said that 430 jobs probably isn't too far off. Considering one of the aircraft is a long haul 330.....that carries probably double that of a 320. With a long haul aircraft the crews operating it won't be as productive as when operating on the short haul fleet. Plus then 3 other aircraft and you probably aren't far short of that figure.
I know and I said that 430 jobs probably isn't too far off. Considering one of the aircraft is a long haul 330.....that carries probably double that of a 320. With a long haul aircraft the crews operating it won't be as productive as when operating on the short haul fleet. Plus then 3 other aircraft and you probably aren't far short of that figure.
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The long haul is a red herring. As in the other thread running in rumours it's 4 x 75's and 1 x 320 that are going
It is suprising how many extra staff they employ per aircraft in comparison to the low cost airlines.
Narrow -
Harriet Green was previously CEO at Premier Farnell, a successful plc with a market capitalisation of £600m+. She has moved to TC, a desperately-troubled group on the verge of bankruptcy, with a market cap of under £200m.
She had to be enticed to pick up this poisoned chalice, and one of the ways of doing it is to offer her a stake in the business, which is cost-free, but offers her potential gain if she is successful. It was probably accompanied by a lower salary than she would otherwise earn.
Issuing shares is no guarantee that a company won't go bust, but when it does, the holder of the shares gets nothing.
Sounds eminently sensible to me.
Harriet Green was previously CEO at Premier Farnell, a successful plc with a market capitalisation of £600m+. She has moved to TC, a desperately-troubled group on the verge of bankruptcy, with a market cap of under £200m.
She had to be enticed to pick up this poisoned chalice, and one of the ways of doing it is to offer her a stake in the business, which is cost-free, but offers her potential gain if she is successful. It was probably accompanied by a lower salary than she would otherwise earn.
Issuing shares is no guarantee that a company won't go bust, but when it does, the holder of the shares gets nothing.
Sounds eminently sensible to me.
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LGS6753 talks total sense. It was very difficult indeed for Thomas Cook to find anyone prepared to risk taking on what was an organisation on the point of collapse.
You have to remember these sort of people totally commit to the businesses they run. I used to work for such organisations and they literally live and breath the problems 24/7. It's a thankless task and live-changing for some because of the pressure.
From someone who had been out of work several times in the past I fully understand the problems of the 430 people who will lose their jobs. It could have easily have been the whole workforce only 3 or 4 months ago, so some perspective is needed by everyone to save the business.
You have to remember these sort of people totally commit to the businesses they run. I used to work for such organisations and they literally live and breath the problems 24/7. It's a thankless task and live-changing for some because of the pressure.
From someone who had been out of work several times in the past I fully understand the problems of the 430 people who will lose their jobs. It could have easily have been the whole workforce only 3 or 4 months ago, so some perspective is needed by everyone to save the business.
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LGS
I don't need you to tell me about the City, how it works, or share options.
I was a City trader for a few years, before I realised it was a crappy job - I then traded it for a crappier job in aviation.
Apart from your reference to Premier Farnell, everything else you mention is pure supposition.
How do you know she had to "be enticed to take up the poisoned chalice", or that " It was probably accompanied by a lower salary than she would otherwise earn"?
You are just guessing mate. Unless you're on the remuneration committee, or board of TCG, you just cannot have access to the details.
I was a City trader for a few years, before I realised it was a crappy job - I then traded it for a crappier job in aviation.
Apart from your reference to Premier Farnell, everything else you mention is pure supposition.
How do you know she had to "be enticed to take up the poisoned chalice", or that " It was probably accompanied by a lower salary than she would otherwise earn"?
You are just guessing mate. Unless you're on the remuneration committee, or board of TCG, you just cannot have access to the details.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
You have to remember these sort of people totally commit to the businesses they run. I used to work for such organisations and they literally live and breath the problems 24/7. It's a thankless task and live-changing for some because of the pressure.
What package would you want to take on TCG with £1 billion debt......and business model that's being continuously chipped away at by the LCC's? Would you leave a secure job to take it on without appropriate "compensation"? I doubt she's come "cheap".A4
Narrow -
Of course it is, because I'm not in the upper echelons of TC. But I'm not far wrong in my supposition, as you will be able to judge when the next TC annual report is published.
Apart from your reference to Premier Farnell, everything else you mention is pure supposition.
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LGS?
I really think you are having a laugh. You don't need to be a genius to realise that the TCG results are going to be poor.
Why do you think the shares are sub 20p? Because it is doing well?
The company has been mismanaged to within an ace of survival, it is going to be a long way back for them.
Harriet Green will do a better job at not ruining the company than her predecessors. It would be impossible not to.
The Elephant in the room for ALL businesses is this when it comes to "incentivising" management: Does it work? Does it really only encourage excess risk taking, or target fixation on one parameter?
Quite frankly, more incentive packages have not been successes than ones which have been.
Whilst jobs are being cut, excessive CEO pay and packages should be cut. It sets a rotten precedent.
Why do you think the shares are sub 20p? Because it is doing well?
The company has been mismanaged to within an ace of survival, it is going to be a long way back for them.
Harriet Green will do a better job at not ruining the company than her predecessors. It would be impossible not to.
The Elephant in the room for ALL businesses is this when it comes to "incentivising" management: Does it work? Does it really only encourage excess risk taking, or target fixation on one parameter?
Quite frankly, more incentive packages have not been successes than ones which have been.
Whilst jobs are being cut, excessive CEO pay and packages should be cut. It sets a rotten precedent.
Narrow -
I agree with all that you say. But who will be the first to cut executive pay?
I think that question should remain rhetorical, as we're allowing this thread to drift a bit....
I agree with all that you say. But who will be the first to cut executive pay?
I think that question should remain rhetorical, as we're allowing this thread to drift a bit....
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Good to see the TCX share price staging a recovery, but wait, new CEO Harriet Green was lucky enough to buy 500000 shares last week at just 23p. This positivism encouraged other directors to take a punt, several wading in to rid their back pockets of troublesome loose change just before Christmas.
Hope they are still focused on running the business and not just looking after themselves.
Trebles all round in the boardroom.
Apologies to Private Eye
Hope they are still focused on running the business and not just looking after themselves.
Trebles all round in the boardroom.
Apologies to Private Eye
Last edited by MANTHRUST; 13th Dec 2012 at 21:57.