IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK

[sawtooth]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/team-to-look-at-developing-knock-airport-3369062.html


Wouldn't break out the Bollinger just yet, the language is cautious, and these studies can become a way to kick the can, like the last study on the business park which was met with silence. But the fact the management are speaking positively about it is good.

The big gain I see here (if followed through) is the Government accepting IWAK is a strategic piece of infrastructure, and that they have an important role in supporting it as a community owned public trust, not a "private company" as Varadkar had been arguing.

That alone should remove some pressure in that any business looking to develop with the airport will now have confidence it has a secure future. Like the aircraft dismantling company who had recently taken over the B hangar.

[EI-A330-300]

From 26 April STN increase from 7 to 9 weekly. Fri and Sun flights added.

Fri
08.00-09.30-09.55-11.20
16.00-17.30-17.55-19.20

Sun
10.15-11.45-12.10-13.35
14.45-16.15-16.40-18.05

Not bad timings at least its better than the current ones.

[sawtooth]

Excellent news and interesting timing. Finally some flexibility for London visitors and Irish commuters. Hopefully they can build on this into the future to facilitate business returns and later flight times.

LTN/LGW head to head most days.

FRI
NOC-STN 09:55
NOC-LTN 12:45
NOC-LGW 12:45
NOC-STN 17:55

FRI
STN-NOC 08:00
LGW-NOC 10:40
LTN-NOC 10:55
STN-NOC 16:00

SUN
NOC-STN 12:10
NOC-LTN 12:45
NOC-LGW 12:45
NOC-STN 16:40

SUN
STN-NOC 10:15
LGW-NOC 10:40
LTN-NOC 10:55
STN-NOC 14:45

...

I see FlyBE are flying south for the Summer also (SNN-GLA W/F/S).

[FRatSTN]

Anybody know if East Midlands is going to get a Tuesday service?

From my analysis, there's currently a big gap in the EMA schedule for one aircraft between the 12:55 arrival from WMI until the 17:00 departure to ALC.

The total time to do the rotation EMA-NOC-EMA (including turnaround time in NOC) is 2 hrs 50 mins. With a turnaround time of 25 mins (usual time) and 50 mins (usual crew change time), that makes a total of 4 hrs 05 mins which fits perfectly between the WMI arrival (12:55) and ALC departure (17:00) at exactly 4 hrs 05 mins.

If true, flight times would be:

EMA 13:20 - NOC 14:35
NOC 15:00 - EMA 16:10

or...

EMA 13:45 - NOC 15:00
NOC 15:25 - EMA 16:35

...depending on whether they do the 50 minute turnaround in EMA before or after a NOC rotation.

This is just pure speculation, I have no idea whether it will happen or not. But if anybody hears anything then I would imagine it's true since the schedule seems adapted for it.

However there isn't any space for a Friday service and to me it's seems a bit odd to fly every day except a Friday but no service on Tuesday and Friday makes more sense for some reason.

[Kinocker]

Good to get the extra London flights, although the timings still aren't great they're certainly an improvement on what was available previously. London routes have generally had the highest load percentages in recent years despite the awful timings, so hopefully this will lead to passengers using the route who previously had to use or chose another airport and will encourage the airport management to look at increasing the opening hours to allow better timings on London flights.

[EI-A330-300]

From 2 June for the peak summer months FR add a second weekly flight to AGP.

[sawtooth]

Anyone who thought the recently announced joint "study" was anything more than a classic stalling tactic would be worried by the reports coming out of local papers...

- Little movement in weeks since meeting
- No report team appointed
- Varadkar bringing up supposed state aid rules in interview
- Varadkar brining in consultants, public tender to take several months
- Taoiseach worried about perception of bias if he intervenes
- Internal row in Taoiseach's party as own colleagues don't trust him
- Airport chairman concedes HHN/BVA lost due to lack of promotion, SNN bailout "did not help"

Knock Airport loses two continental routes

Connaught Telegraph - The unanswered question: How can Knock Airport survive when state is funding a plan to increase Shannon Passanger numbers to 2.5 million at its expense

[Kinocker]

It is ridiculous to be honest. What is Kenny afraid of exactly? He is Taoiseach at a time when there is essentially no opposition to the Government, he can pretty much do what he likes. I'm not suggesting that he should go around building monuments to himself in the west of Ireland or anything, but sensible decisions in the interest of balanced regional development need to be taken e.g. faster improvements to the N5 and investment in Knock Airport.

Any sense of bias can simply be responded to as the balancing out of the bias against the region shown by the previous government for 14 years - lets face it, anything that is the opposite of their work will generally amount to an improvement. Noonan didn't give a toss about bias when he saw to the bailing out of Shannon, it is time for Kenny to represent his constituents in a similar fashion.

[Jamie2k9]

- Varadkar bringing up state air rules in interview

Whats the problem with that?

- Taoiseach worried about perception of bias if he intervenes

So he should be, there has being some stroke politics in recent weeks from Mayo area when it comes down to transport.

- Airport chairman concedes HHN/BVA lost due to lack of promotion, SNN bailout "did not help"

Of course the management of NOC have to blame someone for routes closures, only reason BGY and GRO are staying is because most of traffic is Irish. Ryanair were practically giveing seats away for free on the routes and people still don't want them. Its not that people don't know about the routes. Millions of people log onto FR website every week and would clearly see there routes.

The simple problems is Knock, people haven't a clue where the airport is located or anything about it. A better name is needed as Ireland West Airport Knock or Knock means nothing to a non Irish person and I wouldn't book a flight to Knock as there is such a lack of information as the airports in the middle of nowhere. If airport was closer to Westport and called Westport it would have a place on the map as tourists go there and know the name, like everybody knows Shannon. A better name is needed is routes are to be secured.

Lack of promotion:
Ireland West Airport Knock

Ireland West Airport Knock

Ireland West Airport Knock

Of course SNN is the reason why these routes failed if NOC management would grow up and just realize lots of money was spend to promote these services but they failed but no they have to blame someone because they failed. Would be great if airport management could tell me why Lufthansa service didn't fail with these lack of promotion. If NOC was given a few more million to advertise these routes the out come would of being the same. I also don't see the ADF going down well with tourists, showing up to the airport and being told pay to leave on a flight. Could be wrong but LH collected the fee for the airport. It's ridiculous that tourists get not notice about the fee and are expected to just pay it. News of that will spread once they return home.

NOC will always be an airport for sun services and UK flights. I know people won't accept this but its where the airports future lies.

[ryan2000]

Call it what you will but it'll always be known as Knock Airport to Irish People. It's existence is all down to the marvellous vision and foresight of one man. Having said that his hope that it would attract pilgrims to visit Knock Shrine never really materialised.

I agree that it needs to be marketted in a different way in other countries and Ireland West sounds about the best name.

[sawtooth]

Name

Sorry Jamie I disagree on the name. Knock means nothing to anyone outside Ireland, and it had negative connotations for air travellers within Ireland other than locals (small, politics, bad roads, weather, religious history, years of negative media etc). There is no major city or global name nearby, Galway isn't a runner, and they tried Connaught, Horan, Knock. Last thing it needs is another name change!

I think IWAK was a masterstroke in positioning and very forward looking (what could be clearer "Ireland > West > Airport"). It turned a vice (rural location) into a virtue (central axis in large W/NW region). The re-brand was the beginning of the airports growth phase and the device off which their marketing strategy has developed. I'd say "knock" was only kept to appease the locals. It also gives surrounding counties buy-in as "their" local airport.

The "West of Ireland" is the repetitional brand associated with tourism, rugged scenery, traditional culture, ancestry, Irish hospitality. The name puts the airport on the map as the gateway to that region and stamped their ambition to fulfil their mandated role as an economic and tourism driver of the West.

FG Politics
As to your other replies, it's not that any one of those points aren't valid, but taken together show the Government are still stalling on the issue despite the report smokescreen, that was my point.

HHN/BVA
Everyone knew these were a big ask (especially starting with a 738 mid depression) and dependant on generating inbound demand (at a time when national reputation was in the mud in Germany). MOL warned they would only work with support. All the talk from Tourism Ireland, Minister, Taoiseach, stake holders at the time of launch was about putting resources in place to promote in those markets, integrated plans.

IWAK say Tourism Ireland wouldn't set targets, didn't start marketing until halfway through the season. The airport secured their own €1+ million marketing fund from local county councils. All too late though, FR happy to keep SNN/NOC guessing this year while the bailout debate goes on.

[CelticRambler]

You can put too much emphasis on a name. Would any outsider know where "JFK" or "Charles de Gaulle" airports are if they didn't already know? If it's in Knock, call it Knock and Google Maps will do the rest. In my catchment of geographically challenged travellers "Ireland West" means Cork and Kerry, so without help, they translate that into Shannon.

[ryan2000]

Hahn seems to be working for Kerry. It's operating there for over a decade now. Germans traditionally travelled to the West on Charters to Shannon operated on behalf of DER Tours. Up to 12 flights would arrive every Saturday's for many years and most of the tourists headed for what is now very much the Knock catchment area. Surprised it didn't work.

[Jamie2k9]

I agree that it needs to be marketed in a different way in other countries and Ireland West sounds about the best name.

Agree the name is not suited to the region it covers as it dosn't cover the whole West.

There is no major city or global name nearby, Galway isn't a runner, and they tried Connaught, Horan, Knock. Last thing it needs is another name change!

Well going through so many names does it no favors for people outside of Ireland. Ireland West needs to be dropped and just left Kncok. A number of destinations that are served from NOC have Connaught-Knock displayed at there airports. So the name IWAK is a jock as no airport apart form NOC itself use it.

HHN/BVA
Everyone knew these were a big ask (especially starting with a 738 mid depression) and Dependant on generating inbound demand (at a time when national reputation was in the mud in Germany). MOL warned they would only work with support. All the talk from Tourism Ireland, Minister, Taoiseach, stake holders at the time of launch was about putting resources in place to promote in those markets, integrated plans.

IWAK say Tourism Ireland wouldn't set targets, didn't start marketing until halfway through the season. The airport secured their own €1+ million marketing fund from local county councils. All too late though, FR happy to keep SNN/NOC guessing this year while the bailout debate goes on.

Don't agree about out reputation being in the mud as your average person is not going to base a decision on weather or not to go to Ireland because we bailed them out etc. When HHN was at SNN it was a fairly weak route to but it did better than NOC. For some strange reason HHN works from KIR. I would go say its also a very marginal route from DUB to. BVA on the other hand should of work without much marketing. It had LF of over 90% when it was the only link to Paris from SNN. I don't see these routes will be going to SNN, although SNN are looking at a Paris connection but it won't be with FR.

You can put too much emphasis on a name. Would any outsider know where "JFK" or "Charles de Gaulle" airports are if they didn't already know? If it's in Knock, call it Knock and Google Maps will do the rest. In my catchment of geographically challenged travelers "Ireland West" means Cork and Kerry, so without help, they translate that into Shannon

We're talking about a small regional airport and not two of the busiest airports in the world. A big difference know them and its easier by the fact those cities have 3 or 4 airports.

Lack of urban area near NOC doesn't favor it as most people coming here will base themselves in a city for many reasons such as transport, good accommodation, easy to get information etc.

[Mayfly1]

Good to see the extra Saturday rotations added for June/July on Alicante for summer 13 bringing it back to 3/week, and despite loss of routes pax etc it looks like pax numbers will be close to 2012 levels, well done to the team at IWAK for maintaining focus on the business

[CelticRambler]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

We're talking about a small regional airport and not two of the busiest airports in the world. A big difference know them and its easier by the fact those cities have 3 or 4 airports.

Lack of urban area near NOC doesn't favor it as most people coming here will base themselves in a city for many reasons such as transport, good accommodation, easy to get information etc.

Anyone planning a trip to the west of Ireland is most certainly not thinking of basing themselves in a city, so the lack of urban area should work in Knock's favour. If it doesn't, maybe that's because the airport management are trying (like so many other regional airports) to be the next Schipol/Frankfurt/CdG/Heathrow, instead of promoting the facility as the very best point of entry for "empty space" tourism and business. Chasing after a seventies-style, legacy-airline, big-city business traveller is a waste of time.

And charging people to leave through the airside doors shows a definite lack of commercial realism (or too much time spent at the O'Leary school of economics).

[Knock63]

How else are they supposed to survive? Any pertinent reply would be beneficial. Maybe you think there's gold in the hills the airports built on.
I've NO problem contributing to the brilliant service the folk at IWAK provide, raise it to €15 or maybe €20 I say.

[takingoff]

When you look at 'Taxes/Fees' just above 'Total Price' in the select phase when booking on Ryanair you will notice that the taxes and fees are actually €10 cheaper at Knock Airport in comparison to Dublin airport. The €10 you pay at Knock evens the total taxes/fees you pay over all, making it the same total cost as Dublin. In the end you are not paying anymore in fee/taxes. I know charging €10 at the gate isn’t ideal but you simply aren’t paying anymore.

Besides you save on car parking costs at Knock. Parking literally 2 minutes away from the terminal when compared to the more expensive short term parking beside Dublin airport.

The airport is governed by a trust where all profits are re-invested in the Airport. I have no link to, or family employed by, the airport, but after a fair few years living in the UK see it as a god send for getting home. Wish more people would get behind the airport instead of constantly criticising a facility that is there to service the community.

[Jamie2k9]

And charging people to leave through the airside doors shows a definite lack of commercial realism (or too much time spent at the O'Leary school of economics).

Indeed it should be included in the airports charges as its very miss leading to passengers and they have a cheek marketing it as an development fee when in fact its a fee to cover operations which should be payed by the airlines and passengers pay the airlines. Its doing no favors to people outside Ireland. One thing is certain airlines are making extra profits by not taking it so its the passenger that loosing out in the end.

Besides you save on car parking costs at Knock. Parking literally 2 minutes away from the terminal when compared to the more expensive short term parking beside Dublin airport.

Parking is cheaper at Dublin, a few people complaining about it on the FB page but the great staff at NOC have nothing better to be doing but posting digs to the DAA or SNN.

[iwak]

On a positive note we have extra Malaga and alicante services over peak summer and flybe have added an extra sat service for summer timetable on Manchester route.

I think the aer lingus lgw departure time is too early at 12.45 the existing 16 50 departure time is better for weekend travel .

All in all I think we may see a slight increase in pax this summer thanks to extra services on London routes which will be well supported unlike euro routes last summer.

we need jet service on man route to bring back pax numbers which were had in the past.

Looking forward to seeing badly needed new ei regional atr 72 600s when they enter service in may.hopefully it will be. Regular on bhx route.