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Flybe - 3 (Including the FlyBe/BACon merger)

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Flybe - 3 (Including the FlyBe/BACon merger)

Old 4th Nov 2006, 22:36
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Flybe - 3 (Including the FlyBe/BACon merger)

The sale of Connect wasnt a complete surprise... Connect were underperforming, racking up £6 million in debt this year alone (£20 million last year). The fact that flybe stepped in was unexpected however.

Its not just staff at BAConnect that this affects. BA Mainline staff based at EDI GLA ABZ and MAN now face the prospect of having NO job once the takeover is complete (MAR 2007).

In line with Mainline policy, 'outsourcing' is the name of the game. NCL as well as CDG and various other stations around the world have proved that this is the way to go, having no staff of their own, but a handling agent sometimes in uniform, sometimes not, looking after the complete ground operation.

EDI-LCY AVRO operations will be retained by Mainline BUT - will be hived off into yet another 'subsiduary' yet to be named. Whats the chances of it being called 'Royal Bank of Scotland Airways'? This new outfit will operate as did GO, on its own and will be handled independantly. That leaves LHR and LGW (which has only been given around 18 months to make money of face the chop). Lets not forgret Loganair. They will almost certainly opt for cheaper handling too at EDI GLA and ABZ independant of Mainline. Mainline will not retain staff, equipement, accommodation and resources just for LHR and LGW services.

Although we have not been officially told (that letter is supposed to arrive on Christmas Eve) its not brain science to work out the final outcome. The staff at EDI (and the other regional stations) can hold their heads high knowing that we put in a shift and a half despite the shi* we have had to put up with in recent times with respect to lack of staff, equipement, managerial direction, support and investment

Does Mr Wonka really think that LHR T5 is the answer to all his problems?
(Should have stuck it out at the Chocolate Factory) I Think that its a disaster waiting to happen. Why? Because the minute LHR has a problem, be it weather, terror threat, stricken aircraft on a runway etc, thats when it will turn to a pile of you know what. You can have as many runways and lavish terminals as you like, but remember the sky can only hold a certain amount of aircraft at any one time. IE Give routes to the regions who are more than capable. Why cant passengers fly from LHR-EDI for example then over the pond? GREED...

Merry Christmas Willie and the rest of your Oooompah Looompahs
Hope your fine from raking in illegal fuel surcharges doesnt put a damper on your festivities! Mind you you could well be eating turkey with bubba in a 6x6 concrete box with iron bars for curtains - what a thought eh!

PS - Sir Michael Bishop will be out on the lash this weekend! All the best to
you, especially since you see a need to base another two EMB145s in
EDI to pick up the pieces from the shambles BA has created...



Continuation of: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...232674&page=17

Last edited by tristar500; 4th Nov 2006 at 23:16.
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Old 4th Nov 2006, 22:50
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Sorry to interupt.

I think you'll find Tristar that LGW is already back in profit.

Back to the thread.
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Old 4th Nov 2006, 22:57
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WeLieInTheShadows,

Sorry but according to a senior manager at a hastily arranged breifing yesterday on our future in the regions (or lack of one) LGW has been given 18 months to improve. Iam only passing on what we were told... Nothing personal.

Last edited by tristar500; 4th Nov 2006 at 23:08.
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Old 4th Nov 2006, 23:19
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Ok Tristar i do feel sorry for any job losses in ground handling but the EDI ground handling is awful !! somebody on this forum said that BACON accounts for over 50% of the work at EDI but in reality you are only interested if the aircraft comes from LHR or LGW . BACON arrivals wait ages for GPUs pushback crews arrive when they feel like it, maybe if the ground handlers were more efficient there then you would keep the jobs BACON has always been seen as the poor mans BA when it comes to ground services at EDI.
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 00:53
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6112690.stm
Concerns have been raised in the Highlands over plans by British Airways to sell its loss-making regional airline BA Connect to rival Flybe.
The transfer will sever BA's cross border links with the Highlands, and 22 Inverness Airport jobs could be lost.
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 09:14
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LGW do have a couple of years to perform better than they do in very difficult circumstances viz clapped out 737's that get more complaints from punters than any other a/c in the fleet. Our friends in the regions left as BA may well soon find themselves working for Globeground as they at this time are BA's prefered GHA. LGW may breath a little easier for the momnet as they saw themselves with Bacon. I would suggest that the JFK from MAN will cease next year as it cannot be operated with enough profit if FC & CC have to be Hotacd and allowanced the day before the flight.

That said I wish all the best and as some threaders have said at least some of you now know the direction that you are going.
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 09:16
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Originally Posted by marlowe View Post
Ok Tristar i do feel sorry for any job losses in ground handling but the EDI ground handling is awful !! somebody on this forum said that BACON accounts for over 50% of the work at EDI but in reality you are only interested if the aircraft comes from LHR or LGW . BACON arrivals wait ages for GPUs pushback crews arrive when they feel like it, maybe if the ground handlers were more efficient there then you would keep the jobs BACON has always been seen as the poor mans BA when it comes to ground services at EDI.
Marlowe, yes the ground handling isnt up to much but dont blame the ground staff on the front line - we are there, trained and ready but our hands are tied by management down south and to an extent Connect management too. We are understaffed, the equipement wouldnt qualify for a museum and the investment as a whole is non-existant. It has been run-down over the past few years, more so since the management change at Waterworld (Waterside) last year.

The delays incurred by tech Connect aircraft and lack of Connect crews didnt help the cause either remember...
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 10:13
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Planter
this may well just have p1$$ed on baby,s parade concerning the planned expansion at BHX and aiming to be the largest operator out of there,will they still be able to negotiate the deals with the airport?
Most people around here thought Bacon would just disappear.
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 10:30
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Jer/lgw

Has anyone heard definitively if JER LGW is being retained by BA as part of Fortress London strategy (737 route) or going to FlyBe with BAcon
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 10:46
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Fred
JER LGW is to stay with the Southern Fortress.
Regards
Thumper
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 13:46
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JER LGW is to stay with the Southern Fortress.
[engaging cynical mode]Too many directors and friends living there to cut this service.
[cynical off]

I doubt that anyone can foretell where this is going. BA want to get rid of all the old regional routes that they originally had to take on when they bought the airlines to get their LHR slots.

As has been said, outsourcing is still a strong flavour of the accountants and they will cut anything that will boost the calculations for their bonus.

Oh, I see that I am still in cynical mode. It's just that I have been involved in UK commerce for nearly 30 years and it's difficult to have any other view.
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 14:22
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I'm pretty sure LGW-JER more than pays its way. Its the only "domestic" service with a Club Class offerring, and that is for a reason. Lots of O&D into London and a surprising amount of connecting pax through onto the LHR and LGW networks. I know a few people who connect through LGW to FCO from JER in Club on a very regular basis.
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Old 5th Nov 2006, 17:25
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Will GB Airways also go back to being London-centric or can we expect them to maintain their presence at Manchester and the regions?
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Old 7th Nov 2006, 14:18
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I hate to pour a little rain on the parade but can flybe afford to do what is being talked about here? As far as i can se it, we are talking of more than doubling the size of the fleet. The plan seems not just to take on the bacon fleet but to replace it and perhaps retrain all of the crews. This is a massive task for any company to take on and it will take huge ammounts of cash. I have seen much smaller ventures cause the failure of companies in the past.
I would put my money on flybe increasing it's size by about 25%, cherry picking what it wants, then pulling the plug on the rest.
The best thing in the deal for flybe is not the crews, it is the fact that they have wiped out the competition.

BALLSOUT
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Old 7th Nov 2006, 15:46
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Ballsout the umbrellas are at the ready.

However as I understand it we are NOT taking any of the bacon fleet they remain with BA until they are replaced by flybe airframes and at which point BA will dispose them.
We are not purchasing any additional aircraft to support this expansion, the 60ish Q400ís and 20ish E195ís are already on order or option and have been for some time.
One of the major reasons for taking bacon is so we have something to do with all these ordered aircraft and to have enough pilots to fly them.
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Old 7th Nov 2006, 15:48
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goldeneye
This really did come out of no where. Did not see it coming. BA did not give Connect a chance its not even a year old yet and there offloading it to BE.
I doubt it was out of the blue at all. BACon was created in order that it could be sold off. It means that this decision was taken a year ago. At that time they would only have had a list of possible customers but they created the 'vehicle' as they are often called, so that they could send it on it's way as soon as a buyer was found.

Some of the a/c will go back and, even at a high cost, this can be offset against the savings and so they free up their asset register and the maintenance overhead.

Also, by transferring the company not the staff they postpone many of the problems to be solved by FlyBe at a later stage. As has been said, after 18 months, "Very sorry boys and girls ..." and then go for the PLC which will make a killing and BA will get 15% of it. All in all - a smart looking plan for BA.
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Old 7th Nov 2006, 16:56
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It will be interesting to see what model the LCY - RJ operation follows. The options could be:
  • A wholly owned subsidury of BA with a new AOC AKA Bacon;
  • The RJs are taken back into BAs AOC and wet leased back to a BAR type of operation.
  • The RJs are taken back into BAs AOC and operated
Even more interesting is who will lead this new venture with its blank sheet of paper for success. The top team from BAcon or some new young blood from Waterside?
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Old 7th Nov 2006, 23:31
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My money is on by the time T5 is up & running at LHR:
Gib air will no longer be a BA franchise.
Any other fringe franchise also disenfranchised, so to speak.
BA LGW will go , long haul to LHR, short/med haul probably offered to Gib Air ( a la Flybe)
BA in effect becomes BOAC ( or London Airways) operating long haul with euro & regional connecting flights to long haul from T5.

I have no factual information for the above, but seems to me, a very plausable WW plan.

Last edited by Mr A Tis; 7th Nov 2006 at 23:42.
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Old 8th Nov 2006, 00:32
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Just had a browse at Flybe regional press releases and no commitment has been made to Bristol whatsoever.I think a lot of spin is going on and Flybe will cherry pick the most profitable routes and a lot of regions will be dumped,ie Highlands and Islands etc.Bmi regional(if they play their cards right)could come out of this the overall winner here.As for Flybe being Northern Irelands leading low fares airline,well I and 3.8 million passengers per annum so far,dont think so...

Last edited by the former gk; 8th Nov 2006 at 00:35. Reason: repeated a sentence
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Old 8th Nov 2006, 19:56
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Quick question - who exactly will be flying the RJ's out of EDI, LCY, etc? Heard a good rumour all the existing drivers would be going and that it would be put into the "big BA" pot for their pilots to bid in strict seniority order...Anyone heard this or heard differently???
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