Virgin - 2
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Yet again more spin from VS.
From what I understand since Open Skies LH are extremely happy that they held onto their share in BD. I would very much doubt that they would sell it to VS now. I understand VS's frustration of not being able to expand out of LHR due to slot restrictions but they really should get the message that they aren't getting BD's slots not matter who they go through!
As BD have made public, they are looking to aquire not be aquired and with the backing of LH stronger than ever, perhaps they might look at aquiring VS's 3% of the slots at LHR! Funnier things have happened!
From what I understand since Open Skies LH are extremely happy that they held onto their share in BD. I would very much doubt that they would sell it to VS now. I understand VS's frustration of not being able to expand out of LHR due to slot restrictions but they really should get the message that they aren't getting BD's slots not matter who they go through!
As BD have made public, they are looking to aquire not be aquired and with the backing of LH stronger than ever, perhaps they might look at aquiring VS's 3% of the slots at LHR! Funnier things have happened!
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Come on people, SMB will sell if the price is right. He's just turned 65 and will be thinking of winding down in the near future. Anyone who argues this point just ask yourself why he negotiated the 'put' option with Lufthansa in the first place? This is not spin from Virgin, it's actually happening in the real world we live in. Sir Dickie Branson wants bmi and will do his utmost to buy it if it becomes available. Take note that just a few weeks ago Nigel Turner was stating that bmi was not up for sale, and now his latest remarks are 'I cannot rule out SMB selling his shares'. Do you think bmi is going to take on the might of BA & the American carriers to the US. I think not! I believe he'll start a two or three token routes next spring and then sell his share to the highest bidder as the company will probably then be at peak value.
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Count, There's no doubt that SMB will sell eventually and more crucially when the price is right. The Thread topic is 'Virgin buying through LH'.
So my point is that I doubt Virgin will have the cash to give the price required. There are a lot bigger fish out there that want a slice of BD with a lot more cash than SRB. Coupled to this if you add the fact that I doubt SRB is on SMB's Christmas card list, makes it look even less likely.
So that's how I see it in the real world
So my point is that I doubt Virgin will have the cash to give the price required. There are a lot bigger fish out there that want a slice of BD with a lot more cash than SRB. Coupled to this if you add the fact that I doubt SRB is on SMB's Christmas card list, makes it look even less likely.
So that's how I see it in the real world
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It seems to me that many in the game see 'open skies' as the panacea to large profits and a re-awakenning of the longhaul product. Frankly, it will lead to more problems for the industry, as stated VG is a small outfit with perhaps 18 aircraft and BMI have 3 A330 and hardly any longhaul experience. Even if the slots are negotiable it is likely that the likes of delta, continental plus ba and vg will have to reduce fares to such a degree there will be little to earn out of the UK/USA market anyway. It will further lead to as well a decrease in on board service in an effort to cut costs, on board service that is already poor even up the front end. Finally I doubt SQ or Emirates will worry to much about traditional carriers competetiveness.
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I think the comments by HZ123 are too pessimistic.
LHR is basically full , so there is not going to be massive overnight
expansion ,Real expansion would require either a 3rd RWY or dual modal operation on the existing RWYs and that is some time away.
The expansion that will take place will be substitional , so AF/KL may reduce svces to allow DL/CO to intro svces so there will be increase in some MKTs and reduction in others ( albeit probably Shorthaul ).
Even then a significant part of this svce from the likes of DL/CO will be
transfer fom LGW to LHR so its not all additional capacity and even
the incumbents at LHR will get some benefit e.g BA can trfr IAH/DFW/ATL to LHR and AA can Trfr DFW . BA will also get addit feed from the new
svces by itself and others on to the rest of its network.
Economy fares are already very competitive and I don-t think LHR commands much of a premium over LGW , so there won-t be major
reductions here . The Premium ,particularly Businessclass, segment is
where the profits are on the NATL .Even here a significant part of the
business is tied up through large Corporate deals which already receive hefty discounts.....there may be reductions in the Rack rates published by the airlines and short-term introductory offers ( 2 for 1 etc) from the new carriers but the reduction in actual business yields will be much less significant.
On service levels , firstly I disagree that on board service particularly in F/J are poor - certainly not the case on BA/VS. BA are currently
embarked in installing a new Business class at a cost of millions and BA'S
current businessclass is already a generation ahead of some of the American carriers.
The cost of providing longhaul service in Business is very small as a proportion of the fare paid compared to shorthaul.....maybe £50 per psgr which is c 3.5 % of the fare....on shorthaul it could be £8 per psgr which could be nearly 30% of the lower fares .In short it can have a big impact on SHL costs ,but not on LHL ( certainly Premium ) costs.
We may actually see the reverse with carriers competing on service rather than cost . e.g the American carriers AA/DL/CO/UA currently charge $5
for a beer or wine in Y while these are free on VS/BA.
So far as BD and VS are concered ( incidentally VG is VLM airlines based in Antwerp ) , the reasons why SRB would like to combine is because of some of the concerns you have raised over Open Skies.
BD have the feeder network and the slots but lack the longhaul experience ( altho they have been optg ex-MAN for a number of years and Saudi ex LHR ) ....VS have the longhaul experience , the on board product , lounges,and are known widely in the U.S.A.
The combination would also mean not splitting the British effort three ways ( BA/BD/BD ) which may be more effective against the American carriers with their US hubs.
LHR is basically full , so there is not going to be massive overnight
expansion ,Real expansion would require either a 3rd RWY or dual modal operation on the existing RWYs and that is some time away.
The expansion that will take place will be substitional , so AF/KL may reduce svces to allow DL/CO to intro svces so there will be increase in some MKTs and reduction in others ( albeit probably Shorthaul ).
Even then a significant part of this svce from the likes of DL/CO will be
transfer fom LGW to LHR so its not all additional capacity and even
the incumbents at LHR will get some benefit e.g BA can trfr IAH/DFW/ATL to LHR and AA can Trfr DFW . BA will also get addit feed from the new
svces by itself and others on to the rest of its network.
Economy fares are already very competitive and I don-t think LHR commands much of a premium over LGW , so there won-t be major
reductions here . The Premium ,particularly Businessclass, segment is
where the profits are on the NATL .Even here a significant part of the
business is tied up through large Corporate deals which already receive hefty discounts.....there may be reductions in the Rack rates published by the airlines and short-term introductory offers ( 2 for 1 etc) from the new carriers but the reduction in actual business yields will be much less significant.
On service levels , firstly I disagree that on board service particularly in F/J are poor - certainly not the case on BA/VS. BA are currently
embarked in installing a new Business class at a cost of millions and BA'S
current businessclass is already a generation ahead of some of the American carriers.
The cost of providing longhaul service in Business is very small as a proportion of the fare paid compared to shorthaul.....maybe £50 per psgr which is c 3.5 % of the fare....on shorthaul it could be £8 per psgr which could be nearly 30% of the lower fares .In short it can have a big impact on SHL costs ,but not on LHL ( certainly Premium ) costs.
We may actually see the reverse with carriers competing on service rather than cost . e.g the American carriers AA/DL/CO/UA currently charge $5
for a beer or wine in Y while these are free on VS/BA.
So far as BD and VS are concered ( incidentally VG is VLM airlines based in Antwerp ) , the reasons why SRB would like to combine is because of some of the concerns you have raised over Open Skies.
BD have the feeder network and the slots but lack the longhaul experience ( altho they have been optg ex-MAN for a number of years and Saudi ex LHR ) ....VS have the longhaul experience , the on board product , lounges,and are known widely in the U.S.A.
The combination would also mean not splitting the British effort three ways ( BA/BD/BD ) which may be more effective against the American carriers with their US hubs.
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Virgin Flying To Kingston??
Does anybody know if its true that Virgin will be flying to Kingston, Jamaica using the slots they got from Air Jamaica?
Will it be a LGW or LHR service ?
Will it be a LGW or LHR service ?
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Yes they are, should be announced next week.
However AFAIK the LHR slots will be used to move the MRU service (starting 29/10) from LGW to LHR and use an A343 on it.
KIN will be from LGW on a B744, as MBJ is now.
Poor 744 pilots won't be happy - they thought they were getting MRU
However AFAIK the LHR slots will be used to move the MRU service (starting 29/10) from LGW to LHR and use an A343 on it.
KIN will be from LGW on a B744, as MBJ is now.
Poor 744 pilots won't be happy - they thought they were getting MRU
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TTG are reporting that Virgin have purchased Air Jamica's slots at Heathrow for an undisclosed sum, and that Air Jamaica will be code-sharing on VS flights from 30 October when JM pull out of the UK.
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Read in either The Times or Daily Telebhraph this week that BA were interested in the deal but the Jamacian government wanted 2 airlines on the Kingston-LON route
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Virgin Business
Anyone got the scoop on the proposed Business only services to be offered by VS? I seem to have missed this in the press. Aircraft type, start date's and destinations.
TBE.
TBE.
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Here's a Google search on "virgin business class only":
http://www.google.com/search?source=...=Google+Search
I'd say any of the links on the first page here will answer your question, at least in terms of the currently available information...
http://www.google.com/search?source=...=Google+Search
I'd say any of the links on the first page here will answer your question, at least in terms of the currently available information...
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Virgin Atlantic cargo operations
I am trying to find information regarding VS's cargo operations. I am only aware the airline carries freight on the belly hold of their A343s, A346s and B744s. According to ICAO figures the airline carried 162,569 tonnes in 2005 and 185,170 tonnes in 2006.
What is the cargo capacity and capabilities on each of these aircraft?
Which companies and airlines do they have interline or strategic agreements with to carry freight?
I would also appreciate any further facts and figures regarding their freight and mail operations.
Thank you in advance
What is the cargo capacity and capabilities on each of these aircraft?
Which companies and airlines do they have interline or strategic agreements with to carry freight?
I would also appreciate any further facts and figures regarding their freight and mail operations.
Thank you in advance
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Do NB that Compass is 3 "separate" buildings, so it is possible that smaller companies, and maybe more than one, could quite easily "move to Compass" and this not equate to matching BA's use of the building 