DURHAM AIRPORT - 3
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Ridiculous it may be, but presumably is the result of low forecasts in short / medium term revenue forcing cuts down to the 'bare bone'. The downside of such a risky policy is in lack of cover in critical areas when unforseen absence occours. DTV's forecast pax no.'s for this winter are presumably totally miserable following the withdrawal of BMI Baby, whilst awaiting the arival of GSM based aircraft in 07.
Peel it would seem have 'taken a view', which does not appear to involve subsidising short term losses, presumably as they are finding it difficult to foresee longer term gains in their current forecasts.
Peel it would seem have 'taken a view', which does not appear to involve subsidising short term losses, presumably as they are finding it difficult to foresee longer term gains in their current forecasts.
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Toadpool
Very well, but then what do you consider to be the 'problem?', to me it's the lack of growth / under achievment coupled with diabolical marketing & some hysterical press coverage. I'm not here to suggest the reasons for all of this but any issues with ATC certainly did not cause the problem. As with the 'Chicken & the Egg' what came first the problems with ATC or MME/DTV's performance ?
Very well, but then what do you consider to be the 'problem?', to me it's the lack of growth / under achievment coupled with diabolical marketing & some hysterical press coverage. I'm not here to suggest the reasons for all of this but any issues with ATC certainly did not cause the problem. As with the 'Chicken & the Egg' what came first the problems with ATC or MME/DTV's performance ?
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Skyman,
I'm not in a position, nor am I qualified to answer your questions.
All I do know is that a shortage of staff in ATC at DTVA has been predicted for some time. There seems to have been little action to prevent it.
I'm not in a position, nor am I qualified to answer your questions.
All I do know is that a shortage of staff in ATC at DTVA has been predicted for some time. There seems to have been little action to prevent it.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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For anyone interested, there is now a comprehensive document (76 pages) that apparently recommends approval of DTVA’s proposed terminal and site expansion plans available on Stockton Borough Council’s website.
Hopefully this will take you to the relevant page:-
http://www.egenda.stockton.gov.uk/ak...=public&arc=71
Scroll down this page until you reach the DTVA planning application which has a link to a document entitled ‘Final Joint Report’. The Planning Committee are due to meet tomorrow, Wednesday 6th December, and will hopefully ratify the recommendations.
From a quick skim through, all the expansion proposals for the terminal, additional stands, parallel taxiway, freight village, etc. are being put to Councillors to approve after two years of waiting. As you might expect, there are numerous conditions to be complied with, one being a quota system of points allocated in order to restrict the number of flights allowed to operate between 23.00 and 07.00 because of noise implications. Interesting to note the possible uses envisaged for one area of the new development, including aircraft painting, engine maintenance, aircraft interior work, etc. but I’m not going to hold my breath awaiting an announcement of who, if anyone, is likely to take these facilities up, or when.
However, I’m sure we can expect some sort of local media spin and airport press release frenzy either Wednesday evening or Thursday morning once the Planning Committee have made their decision known publicly.
Hopefully this will take you to the relevant page:-
http://www.egenda.stockton.gov.uk/ak...=public&arc=71
Scroll down this page until you reach the DTVA planning application which has a link to a document entitled ‘Final Joint Report’. The Planning Committee are due to meet tomorrow, Wednesday 6th December, and will hopefully ratify the recommendations.
From a quick skim through, all the expansion proposals for the terminal, additional stands, parallel taxiway, freight village, etc. are being put to Councillors to approve after two years of waiting. As you might expect, there are numerous conditions to be complied with, one being a quota system of points allocated in order to restrict the number of flights allowed to operate between 23.00 and 07.00 because of noise implications. Interesting to note the possible uses envisaged for one area of the new development, including aircraft painting, engine maintenance, aircraft interior work, etc. but I’m not going to hold my breath awaiting an announcement of who, if anyone, is likely to take these facilities up, or when.
However, I’m sure we can expect some sort of local media spin and airport press release frenzy either Wednesday evening or Thursday morning once the Planning Committee have made their decision known publicly.
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A point of note on the planning application it is stated : 'Based on current projections the new terminal and associated aviation development will be required in 2007 when the present terminal reaches its capacity, based on current rates of growth.' ... interesting !, but are short term growth projections achievable?, & also a lot of talk about 3 Million capacity & development covering what will effectively be an eight year period to 2015. Sounds good!? 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Stockton have approved the plans, looks like Darlington will do the same, see article on Northern Echo website.
What's interesting about the article is it says the airport bosses are in negotiations with Network Rail to make Dinsdale Station the main airport rail link, isn't Dinsdale Station in Middleton St George or Middleton One Row? I think I saw it on my way to the airport just this morning, if this is the case, it's a bit of an insult when the airport has its own station!
Also, it mentions getting a 'permanent bus routes', and as much as I would like to see more bus routes, what is the Sky Express and the Arriva services 20 and 74???
Regards.
What's interesting about the article is it says the airport bosses are in negotiations with Network Rail to make Dinsdale Station the main airport rail link, isn't Dinsdale Station in Middleton St George or Middleton One Row? I think I saw it on my way to the airport just this morning, if this is the case, it's a bit of an insult when the airport has its own station!
Also, it mentions getting a 'permanent bus routes', and as much as I would like to see more bus routes, what is the Sky Express and the Arriva services 20 and 74???
Regards.
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I think we will have to wait a while yet to see if the planning consent turns into bricks and mortar development. Some of us are old enough to recall the Gazette headlines trumpeting 11000 new jobs when Moorfield Semley submitted a similar planning application for an airport related development on the Southside, and of course the skeleton of the ill fated hotel scheme is still rusting away by the side of the defunct railway halt. My guess is that the new owners are pinning their hopes for a quick return on the proposed office business park at Middleton St George to release some real money for future investment. The problem with good old Teesside is that it has suffered far too much from hype and spin in recent years, a glance at the live departures /arrivals board on the airports website tells the real story (yes I know its winter and Globespan have yet to commence serious operations)And you can't expect Peel Holdings to pay for ATCOs when there ain't any aeroplanes!
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Carbheathot agree with most of what you say but you are wrong about the ATCO situation. MME is seriously understaffed in this department, they are actually below the level of the CAA guidelines. The problem is that incomparison to other units that have a similar work load, which is actually higher than many think due to the amount of traffic in the Vale of York, the staff are paid upto £15,000 less than their colleagues at other units. Yes the problem was there before Peel took over but Peel have not acted to rectify this situation. Next time you get the chance just compare the three airports in Peels portfolio for comparison wages.
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Thirty years ago people were having the same discussion about the future of Tees-side Airport. The conclusion being that despite best efforts the airport was constrained by too many stakeholders with the County boundary running through the airport.
As long as there are hidden faces with hidden agendas voting on someone elses business it will be the same in thirty years time!
Great Airport, Great People, and Great part of the World.
I learnt to fly there and it's a shame it hasn't really moved on.
Binder
As long as there are hidden faces with hidden agendas voting on someone elses business it will be the same in thirty years time!
Great Airport, Great People, and Great part of the World.
I learnt to fly there and it's a shame it hasn't really moved on.
Binder
Anyone know why DTVA is in the Air Scotland booking engine? HUY is also, but you cant bring up a list of destinations you just get redirected? Expected anouncement?
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Well Darlington Council yesterday approved the plans for the airport, which means that both councils have approved the plans. Don't know when building work is due to start but I would imagine they'll want something finished for the summer.
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Passenger Numbers for November 2006
Awful month in November, overall passengers was 34450, down 36.8%, understandable with Baby pulling out I guess.
All of the other routes took a dive too
ABZ 3273 61.3%
AMS 9494 65.9%
BRU 597 23.4%
DUB 5152 64.9%
LHR 9278 35%
(based on fully A319's, 3x daily up til 12th (2 on a Sat) then from 13th 4x daily (2 on Sat) til the end of the month)
TFS 325 43% (I've based this on just 189 seats each week for MME - half a 738 both ways as it's shared with GLA)
The TFS and BRU didn't do too badly for their first months, but LHR is shocking! Just got to hope they don't pull it completely.
mmeteesside
Awful month in November, overall passengers was 34450, down 36.8%, understandable with Baby pulling out I guess.
All of the other routes took a dive too
ABZ 3273 61.3%
AMS 9494 65.9%
BRU 597 23.4%
DUB 5152 64.9%
LHR 9278 35%
(based on fully A319's, 3x daily up til 12th (2 on a Sat) then from 13th 4x daily (2 on Sat) til the end of the month)TFS 325 43% (I've based this on just 189 seats each week for MME - half a 738 both ways as it's shared with GLA)
The TFS and BRU didn't do too badly for their first months, but LHR is shocking! Just got to hope they don't pull it completely.
mmeteesside
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mmeteesside
I understand that the additional LHR was just to fill a slot, surely it would have been better sending it elsewhere - i.e. INV where they have reduced the service or were they hoping all the ex Baby LGW customers would just automatically shift over to LHR
However the scary part from the CAA figs is LHR is down 3964 journeys to 9278 from 13242 last year - with an extra service!
And to add to the headache LGW had 3263 journeys last year.
A total drop of 7227 to London alone.
I understand that the additional LHR was just to fill a slot, surely it would have been better sending it elsewhere - i.e. INV where they have reduced the service or were they hoping all the ex Baby LGW customers would just automatically shift over to LHR
However the scary part from the CAA figs is LHR is down 3964 journeys to 9278 from 13242 last year - with an extra service!
And to add to the headache LGW had 3263 journeys last year.
A total drop of 7227 to London alone.
Last edited by chrism20; 17th Dec 2006 at 20:53. Reason: typo
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ATC staffing has been beset by problems outwith simply not having enough staff on the books;
1. Of three controllers which were recruited over the last three years 2 left before validation, 1 failed to validate.
2. For approximately the last 4 years there has been at least 1 member of staff off on maternity leave at any one time.
3. Aerodrome rated controllers have been put through radar courses necessitating 3 months non-operational employment at a time.
4. 1 controller on longish term sick.
5. Training: Due to a lack of OJTI's the backlog of non-valid radar controllers and not receiving training was up to 5 at one point. Plus, due to the above reasons, were required to fill the aerodrome seat rather than receiving radar training.
The employer is not without fault, however to imply it is simply a lack of staff is disingenious.