Manchester - 3
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manchester, England
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Momentary Lapse - much of what you say is right, however I can tell you that back in 1991 MAplc actually opposed the introduction of multiple handling agents rather than instigate it. It was the Monopolies & Mergers Committee which forced this following representations to the Thatcher/Major government. MA made a case for retaining a monoploy due to fears of ramp congestion caused by duplication of equipment - and look what happened!
Moving on from MLs points to the general debate now: I just don't see how the present economics within the industry are sustainable. The low-cost culture generates so little revenue for airports - how on earth are they to invest in infrastructure? Terminals are one thing - you can put up a shed and make pax carry their own bags, but the airfield is different. The CAA has no 'low cost' requirements - you can't have a cardboard runway and LEGO Fire trucks - airfield infrastructure requires multi-millions to build and more millions to maintain whether it's for easyjet or Lufthansa, the licensing requirements are the same. This money has to come from somewhere. LPL and BLK are alright at the moment because these airfields were underutilised, but wait till their airfields are worn out and need re-building like MAN. Will the business case stack up to re-invest?
Moving on from MLs points to the general debate now: I just don't see how the present economics within the industry are sustainable. The low-cost culture generates so little revenue for airports - how on earth are they to invest in infrastructure? Terminals are one thing - you can put up a shed and make pax carry their own bags, but the airfield is different. The CAA has no 'low cost' requirements - you can't have a cardboard runway and LEGO Fire trucks - airfield infrastructure requires multi-millions to build and more millions to maintain whether it's for easyjet or Lufthansa, the licensing requirements are the same. This money has to come from somewhere. LPL and BLK are alright at the moment because these airfields were underutilised, but wait till their airfields are worn out and need re-building like MAN. Will the business case stack up to re-invest?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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LPL is not alright at the moment or they wouldn't be embarking on a major reconstruction of the runway in October. This has been required for the last two years so they can handle 4 engined aircraft again (B747, A340etc) as the outer edge of the runway was breaking up. True money plays a big part in timing of the maintenance but MAplc should have thought of that before they embarked on a 2nd runway they didn't need, after all Gatwick manages quite well with 1 runway and more passengers. Perhaps the management should be changed!
Last edited by lplsprog; 23rd Sep 2006 at 11:51.
Join Date: May 2003
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The reason I understand is due to the mix of traffic i:e EMB145 then B747 or reverse which Gatwick or Stansted do not get to the same extreme as Manchester
Stansted has a traffic pattern which is longer than Manchester with the first rush of departures at 05.00 and not finishing until around midnight
and Gatwick has more aicraft at a constant size
G-I-B
Stansted has a traffic pattern which is longer than Manchester with the first rush of departures at 05.00 and not finishing until around midnight
and Gatwick has more aicraft at a constant size
G-I-B
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Manchester
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Bravo Jet2! After baby snubbed MAN yesterday in favour of expansion in BHX, it's good to see that at least one of our LCC's are commited to the cause. And with TOM also announcing 11 new routes, it has been a good week for MAN. I think LS and TOM will lead the way now in terms of future commitment to the airport, with ZB up there as well no doubt. Now then, how about this long-haul expansion we've long been promised...
Yes, good news from Jet2. Welcome competition for Monarch on the BCN, where we once had 3 operators (ZB,IB & WW), interesting to see they have also picked another ex baby route Paris CDG & a BMI Regional route -Toulouse.
Still waiting for someone to pick-up the Lisbon route, which we lost after many years of service by the excellent Portugalia. Maybe this is one for ZB, as they do this route from LGW.
Still waiting for someone to pick-up the Lisbon route, which we lost after many years of service by the excellent Portugalia. Maybe this is one for ZB, as they do this route from LGW.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: England
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Manchester's got one: Runway 2 is falling to bits already at the starter end cos it's built from talcum powder and meringue nests. The bit that needs rebuilding is the bit where all the taxiways cross each other 
on the way to the threshold. Pity they didn't pay cardboard prices for it though...
Thanks for the comments re MA resisting multiple handlers. I bow to your knowledge. I do remember that when the handlers were jostling for the original 3 or 4 handler contracts, some of MA's Board members (who'd never been out of Gtr Manchester before because their whippets would miss them and they'd have no-one else to run their pie shops) went out to exotic places at the expense of one of the prospective handlers, who then went on to mysteriously win one of the contracts despite having no experience of working at MAN. And several Board members were also given genuine Rolex watches. At that time, MA should have implemented equipment licensing to limit apron congestion.
MA doesn't need a second runway for more movements, because it hasn't got enough space for more apron, taxiway or terminals to serve it properly. What they need is bigger a/c per movement (like LGW) and a better spread across the day's peaks and troughs. Then one runway would be sufficient, like LGW.
on the way to the threshold. Pity they didn't pay cardboard prices for it though...Thanks for the comments re MA resisting multiple handlers. I bow to your knowledge. I do remember that when the handlers were jostling for the original 3 or 4 handler contracts, some of MA's Board members (who'd never been out of Gtr Manchester before because their whippets would miss them and they'd have no-one else to run their pie shops) went out to exotic places at the expense of one of the prospective handlers, who then went on to mysteriously win one of the contracts despite having no experience of working at MAN. And several Board members were also given genuine Rolex watches. At that time, MA should have implemented equipment licensing to limit apron congestion.
MA doesn't need a second runway for more movements, because it hasn't got enough space for more apron, taxiway or terminals to serve it properly. What they need is bigger a/c per movement (like LGW) and a better spread across the day's peaks and troughs. Then one runway would be sufficient, like LGW.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: manchester
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From Jet 2 press release
'The low cost revolution at Manchester has only just started, today marks the beginning of the end for high fares to European cities and Jet2 is leading the way - there are many more destinations to come, so keep visiting Jet2!'
Sounds promising! Surely Jet2 has more scheduled destinations than any other airline now at MAN? 23 routes compared to BACONS 17
'The low cost revolution at Manchester has only just started, today marks the beginning of the end for high fares to European cities and Jet2 is leading the way - there are many more destinations to come, so keep visiting Jet2!'
Sounds promising! Surely Jet2 has more scheduled destinations than any other airline now at MAN? 23 routes compared to BACONS 17
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hong Kong
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Jet2 have been my carrier of choice on the AGP-MAN route for a while but I'm sorry to see that they've ditched the afternoon MAN-AGP for the winter. They won't be seeing me for a bit. 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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06:45 is nob all good to me I'm afraid, nor is the ZB winter schedule. Having said that, I went off ZB some time ago. Being told that charging for scoff was because of customer demand, the endless p.a.s telling us what not to do next flight and if I hear that the rip off exchange rate is based on the bank buying rate with no added commission one more time - I'll scream. Seat pitch seems to have shrunk too, doubt I'm still growing at my age.
Back to ID90s for a couple of months. Never know, I might get to like it.
Back to ID90s for a couple of months. Never know, I might get to like it.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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I'll agree with that spud.....ZB had to get to the level of WW and LS to compete effectively, without worrying too much about the people who are prepared to pay for just a little bit of 'service'.
There's no way LS could continue an afternoon service through winter. AGP demand is there all year round, but it tails off between November and March especially.
There's no way LS could continue an afternoon service through winter. AGP demand is there all year round, but it tails off between November and March especially.
I agree with spud re the very annoying Monarch PAs, constant can't do this, that or the other, buy this, buy that & then the constant scratch cards sales PAs, it just goes on and on and on and on, far worse than anyone else. Give us a break Monarch, or some peace & quiet during our flight.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester
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Momentary Lapse -
I've been off your case for quite a while to give you a chance to reform, but your constant moaning and sniping about all things Manchester has once again become just too tiresome to ignore. Do you ever have a good word to say for the place or the people who strive to make it the success that it is? Yes, 12th busiest in Europe and over 22.5 million passengers per year does constitute success. The place isn't perfect - we all know that, but it compares very well with the many other airports which I visit. Perhaps MAplc upset you in some way ... did they sack you or pass you over for promotion? Whatever it is, you have the right to post only negative comments if you wish, but if you post incorrect material I will challenge you.
So Manchester doesn't need a second runway, eh? Please tell us then exactly how Manchester should accommodate upto 800 daily movements on one runway (demand as per this Summer), many of which require peak morning and peak evening slots to conform with the business day? The answer is that the need for Manchester's second runway was proven beyond doubt a long time ago, and is answered again every weekday. Go and look. Your sneering remarks serve only to sap the last of your credibility. And what's all this whippets and pies nonsense in your most recent contribution? It sounds like a form of racist stereotyping to me.
Sometimes, if you have nothing good to say it is better to say nothing.
Meanwhile, after a fortnight of good news for MAN courtesy of Thomsonfly, Jet2.com, VLM and BMI Regional here's another gem. According to 'Travel Trade Gazette' [22 Sept edition], Flyglobespan is to operate a daily MAN - Toronto (Hamilton) service from May 2007 using 183-seat B757 equipment.
Would you care to join me in congratulating the Manchester Airport team for securing these fantastic new schedules at such a difficult time for the aviation industry in general? Should I hold my breath?
Cheers, SHED.
I've been off your case for quite a while to give you a chance to reform, but your constant moaning and sniping about all things Manchester has once again become just too tiresome to ignore. Do you ever have a good word to say for the place or the people who strive to make it the success that it is? Yes, 12th busiest in Europe and over 22.5 million passengers per year does constitute success. The place isn't perfect - we all know that, but it compares very well with the many other airports which I visit. Perhaps MAplc upset you in some way ... did they sack you or pass you over for promotion? Whatever it is, you have the right to post only negative comments if you wish, but if you post incorrect material I will challenge you.
So Manchester doesn't need a second runway, eh? Please tell us then exactly how Manchester should accommodate upto 800 daily movements on one runway (demand as per this Summer), many of which require peak morning and peak evening slots to conform with the business day? The answer is that the need for Manchester's second runway was proven beyond doubt a long time ago, and is answered again every weekday. Go and look. Your sneering remarks serve only to sap the last of your credibility. And what's all this whippets and pies nonsense in your most recent contribution? It sounds like a form of racist stereotyping to me.
Sometimes, if you have nothing good to say it is better to say nothing.
Meanwhile, after a fortnight of good news for MAN courtesy of Thomsonfly, Jet2.com, VLM and BMI Regional here's another gem. According to 'Travel Trade Gazette' [22 Sept edition], Flyglobespan is to operate a daily MAN - Toronto (Hamilton) service from May 2007 using 183-seat B757 equipment.
Would you care to join me in congratulating the Manchester Airport team for securing these fantastic new schedules at such a difficult time for the aviation industry in general? Should I hold my breath?
Cheers, SHED.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: England
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Hi Shed. Nice to hear from you.
I'm not going to bother answering your comments in detail because we've done it all before.
My views are my views and neither you nor anyone else is entitled to call them incorrect.
I am not a racist, and I call on you to withdraw that serious allegation.
I'm not going to bother answering your comments in detail because we've done it all before.
My views are my views and neither you nor anyone else is entitled to call them incorrect.
I am not a racist, and I call on you to withdraw that serious allegation.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Spud, I think one of the flights is a bit later, think it maybe at the weekend, think its about a 1030ish departure.
Next year the AGP is on the 757 in the morning, bit nicer than the 737 i think
Next year the AGP is on the 757 in the morning, bit nicer than the 737 i think
Join Date: May 2003
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Good job we have got 2 runways as it would be fun with runway closure of 24R for 2 or 3 weeks we have at present overnight whilst it gets its cleaning and overhaul as there must be at least 20 movements after the closure time
I`m sure that the airlines would love to go back to the long holds there used to be in the morning and evening when there was only one runway which was quite often 30-40 minutes and just think of all the fuel used and burnt
The Bollin valley and surrounds now look wonderful with it being managed by the wardens and a pleasure to walk through
G-I-B
I`m sure that the airlines would love to go back to the long holds there used to be in the morning and evening when there was only one runway which was quite often 30-40 minutes and just think of all the fuel used and burnt
The Bollin valley and surrounds now look wonderful with it being managed by the wardens and a pleasure to walk through
G-I-B
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Join Date: Oct 2001
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