ISLE OF MAN

[Gulf Julliet Papa]

Is it just me that's amazed how critical people are here?

Just to clarify that from an announcement at 22:00 on a Friday, Eastern have been able to find space in their schedules (flights, maintenance, crew) on TWO of their aircraft. They have arranged ground handling and passenger services at 3 airports they don't currently operate into (VLY, BHD, IOM). They have insured that the crews will have also correct documents, to allow performance and airfield familiarisation be available to crew. They have done this in a 48 hour period, over a weekend.

Just purely looking at staff cost, office workers which would usually be off at the weekend, are likely to of had to of come in. Then you have had to find a crew of pilots and cabin crew willing to spend the next week in CWL, and from NCL crew that would be willing to take longer days.

Bare in mind they have also launched these routes with zero marketing or research. Especially the IOM they are taking a risk, that is not calculated.

An airline is not a charity, if the cost of running the route to get off the island right now is £99, that seems cheap to me based on what Eastern would of had to throw at this. You will only get cheaper costs and therefore flights if you have a historically good load factor, more frequencies , or bigger aircraft. If you want that, you will have to use it....or loose it

[AirGuru]

That's one of the best replies i've seen on here in a long time GJP

Less of the slating, and more understanding on what's going on. Fairplay to T3, they've done well this weekend.

[PENNINE BOY]

IOM

Easterns J41s are all ex Manx Airlines. Time for the IOM to be in control of their own small airline again. The Island has a healthy biz jet register, just increase the levy on them and put it to running a couple of 19 seater aircraft, along with the hospital subsidy it pays for the LPL service you are nearly there!

I believe the Saab service to LCY is subsidised by a offshore internet gambling site. It could be done with out taking coffers from local projects.

PB

[VentureGo]

Today's flights IOM-BHD-IOM Cancelled! - NCL-IOM operated as schedule, then a/c remained on ground (G-MAJY)

[El Bunto]

I wouldn't be too overawed by Eastern Airway's response-time to the Citywing collapse; there were rumours back in February that they were sniffing around the IOM. Doubtless they've been laying groundwork for several weeks, either off their own bat or with gov.im facilitation.

North Flying Metro OY-NPE has ferried to Cardiff to restart the PSO service.

[LBIA]

VentureGo looks like its just the IOM-BHD-IOM cancelled. As G-MAJY is just about on finals for NCL inbound from IOM now as EZE651.

[Tinwald]

I think you're right about Eastern killing traffic.
makes you wonder why their bothering at those prices.
A lot of folks on the Belfast are commuters and regular users. Citywing weren't cheap their £29.95 fares were as rare as rocking horse poo but £100 each way - no way will it last.

[tibbs87]

Fair enough Virginblue, yes the cabins of the LET's were slightly wider, however I was more on about a better pitch of seating, the J41 has 30'' to the Let410 having approx 29''... Plus the onboard toilet on the J41, the flight assistant on the J41 and those complimentary drinks.... So the comfort level does actually surpass that of the Let410, so Mwah hahaha

[barry lloyd]

Whenever you have to cross water, the cost becomes more expensive because there are so few alternatives, ie minimal competition, so the carriers, be they by air or sea, charge what they like.

What has always amazed me about the Isle of Man is that it has never set up it's own airline (at least not since the days of Manx). With many businesses and wealthy people on the island, and with its lower tax regime than the UK, it seems odd to me that there is no established Manx-based airline. The island suffers a lot from low visibility at all times of the year, but at least if aircraft are based there, they can usually get off the island and by the time they are due to return, the visibility would usually have improved.

[lfc84]

utter nonsense

[Letsflycwl]

Originally Posted by El Bunto

I wouldn't be too overawed by Eastern Airway's response-time to the Citywing collapse; there were rumours back in February that they were sniffing around the IOM. Doubtless they've been laying groundwork for several weeks, either off their own bat or with gov.im facilitation.

North Flying Metro OY-NPE has ferried to Cardiff to restart the PSO service.

The North Flying Metro has been parked up all day and the 2 flights to VLY today were on J41 G-MAJG which appears to be remaining at CWL now.

As said above the speed that Eastern jumped into rescue these services has to be commended. Less than 48 hours to source aircraft & crew, arrange handling and all other things associated with this is pretty good indeed and I'm sure the passengers will prefer the J41 and service to that of the Metro or LET

[barry lloyd]

utter nonsense

To what are you referring lfc84?

[Barling Magna]

utter nonsense

Wins the prize for the least useful post on the forum.

[virginblue]

LCY, MAN and LPL are operated with IOM-based aircraft, as were all Citywing destinations. Don't see how this would change with a Manx-based airline other than maybe LGW being operated from IOM rather than LGW.

[barry lloyd]

LCY, MAN and LPL are operated with IOM-based aircraft, as were all Citywing destinations. Don't see how this would change with a Manx-based airline other than maybe LGW being operated from IOM rather than LGW.

True, but what is needed is a properly-structured, reliable Manx-based airline.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Why? If they can be crewed by bases on mainland/NI and nightstop then why do they need a Manx based airline? It didn't work before. It hasn't worked in recent history.

I only hope Eastern make a success out of it and someone else tries Glasgow before Citywing have a chance to come back from the dead. Again.

[barry lloyd]

It did work before with Manx. There were other reasons why they ceased to exist.
I too hope Eastern make a go of it, but history rather weighs against that.

[EI-BUD]

A Manx Airline

It did work before with Manx. There were other reasons why they ceased to exist.
I too hope Eastern make a go of it, but history rather weighs against that.

Yes it did work for Manx once upon a time, 1980s, 1990s. At that time IOM was significantly more well subscribed as a tourist destination. It had Manx flying a flagship London Heathrow route, with a leisure offering to Luton and a selection of other UK routes, it also had a handful of other routes not to/ from the Island (pre the days of BA express) which helped its commercials. There was limited to no competition. The world today is a radically different one. The IOM tourist industry has declined, the key routes are served by low cost carriers, and the established Flybe/ Stobart has it sewn up. There is no business case for an IOM airline that competes in the same space as easyJet or even Flybe. EasyJet's arrival on the Island had a profound effect on the level of demand for other carriers and the level of fares that can be collected.

Citywing commercially stacked up and had points of difference, small aircraft with ability to serve thin markets, that otherwise would not operate, it had exemption from APD which gives it a competitive advantage, and it also has fully outsourced model, bringing an airline operation in house with such small scale, would mean that the overhead could not be sustained.

I would not concur that the Island can sustain its own airline.

However, I do feel that the Island should be treated similarly to Island Communities off Scotland, where an Air Discount Scheme is in place. This would make travel more affordable for IOM residents and as a result potentially drive demand, enabling the viability of services to some marginal points on the map. E.g. Glasgow, Edinburgh, Leeds etc.

[01475]

The lessons I take from this are:

- There are a number of routes and airports in the British Isles that could be served by a respectable operator of small planes
- Such an operator cannot exist on the back of one base; not an isolated island with a population of 100k; and not Gloucester, Blackpool, Anglesey, Oxford, Cambridge, Shoreham, Waterford, or any of the other places from which this operator could operate alone
- Such an operator probably cannot competitively exist on the basis of purely operating small planes as the administrative requirements of operating a respectable airline of any size, and as the missing economies of scale are too great
- The operator would have to be a national operator that already had bases in a number of airports around the UK, that operated a mixed fleet of various sizes, and that could offer connections and being a part of a greater marketing presence.
- The only operator that could do it would be something suspiciously similar to an old British Airways
- It will never happen, and therefore this chapter of aviation (and the airports it would otherwise have supported) will close.

[Harry Wayfarers]

There are a number of routes and airports in the British Isles that could be served by a respectable operator of small planes

Exactly and that is why reproduction of, otherwise soon to become extinct, such types as DHC6, Do228 and Do328 have recommenced.

Going back some 6 years a (rich) friend of mine was thinking of starting a 'puddle jumper' airline with a fleet of perhaps Do228's & Do328's, at that time there were petition(s) to keep Plymouth Airport open so that's how he became involved and interested.

But besides Loganair, Iscles of Scilly Skybus and LyddAir there are no 'puddle jumper' operators remaining whilst there are IOM routes suitable for such types, apparently Gloucester was successful, Belfast and Glasgow, Blackpool and, from what I've been reading, if such an operator can undercut the extortionate fares that Eastern want for a 20 minute flight to Belfast then they'd be on to a winner!

But an IOM based operator probably wouldn't work nor would it likely utilise more than perhaps two aircraft, when were friend and I were looking at it our plan was to base such an operator in Wales (Cardiff) for the government handouts.

But there are plenty of other airports out there where 'puddle jumper' services would likely work and all could be achieved by operating 'W' pattens from a main operating base or two:

Gloucester/Channel Islands (summer only) has been going since DC3's operated the route.

Channel Islands/Oxford (summer only) may work.

Waterford, ATR's & Fokkers proved to provide excessive capacity but a route or few available there for a puddle jumper.

Kerry ... Pretty much ditto as I understand it.

Belfast to Cork seemed to be viable in the past.

Cardiff are trying to develop a route network but not so many routes can fill a Q400 or similar.

Newquay ditto

And if they were to reopen Plymouth Airport then a number of routes to be served from there.

The list goes on.

In the old days business routes were operated, at least, morning and evening whilst leisure routes filled up the gap(s) in between, these days "We have a business route but you need to travel at 6am but only on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays"

That's no good and in time someone may come to realise that it's not all about "Let's squeeze as many bums on seats in as short a time as possible to satisfy the accountants"