ISLE OF MAN
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Location: Isle of Man
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How fragile is the IOM network at present?
I think that, despite the healthy increase in passengers numbers this year, the overall IOM network is in a bit of a hole. There is a lack of stability, and little genuine commitment, from most carriers at the present, and further changes seem likely :-
easyjet - providing a lot of seats to LPL and LGW, and some great fares, if you are well organised and able to plan ahead. But only actually coming herewhen it suits them! It’s not just the gaping hole and poor timings in the summer schedule to LGW, but the timings on LPL and BRS are all over the place, changing from day to day, and month to month. They have demonstrated a willingness to remove capacity, they have no ties to the IOM, and could take everything away, at the drop of a hat, if it suited them to do so.
FlyBe - although IOM should be prime territory for BE, it seems to have been reduced to a backwater, in their thinking, and planning, with most flying now outsourced, and I think, all of it outsourced by next summer. I have heard mention of the CEO’s dislike for the Island elsewhere, and this prejudice, may well be a driver. Presumably for the reduced network to remain viable, both Stobart and FlyBe now need to make money from it. This must make it more vulnerable. We are also exposed to Stobart finding more productive use for their ATR’s and taking them away, at some future point. Or maybe, the current arrangement is a precursor to the whole network being handed to Stobart?
Aer Lingus - despite the long term stability of the Dublin schedule and relatively high fares, which suggest this is a good route commercially, all flying now outsourced to an ancient (25 year old) Latvian registered ATR. I'll say no more!
Citywing - ploughing on with their niche routes, despite some competition, but not really a ‘proper airline’ in many passengers’ eyes and offering only a tiny amount of capacity, in the overall scheme of things. They have shown, in the past, that, perhaps understandably, have no desire to scale up, to fill gaps that might emerge elsewhere.
British Airways – probably the only tiny bright spot right now; fighting back on frequency, fares and capacity to LCY, and bringing some of their own, high quality, metal to the party. But they are really only a niche player too, in an IOM context, and their LCY centric model means they have no interest in other routes. Unlikely to be a part of a solution if FlyBe or easyJet contract further.
I am not sure what the answer is. The IOMG rejected the idea of any form of licensing, even in a ‘light touch’ form, but my sense is that, for a variety of reasons, the whole network is looking pretty fragile and uncertain, at this point in time.
Where will we be in another 12/18 months?
What can/should the authorities be doing to demonstrate some awareness of the position? Some visible action, to bring more certainty, and stability, would surely be a good thing for passenger and business confidence?
easyjet - providing a lot of seats to LPL and LGW, and some great fares, if you are well organised and able to plan ahead. But only actually coming herewhen it suits them! It’s not just the gaping hole and poor timings in the summer schedule to LGW, but the timings on LPL and BRS are all over the place, changing from day to day, and month to month. They have demonstrated a willingness to remove capacity, they have no ties to the IOM, and could take everything away, at the drop of a hat, if it suited them to do so.
FlyBe - although IOM should be prime territory for BE, it seems to have been reduced to a backwater, in their thinking, and planning, with most flying now outsourced, and I think, all of it outsourced by next summer. I have heard mention of the CEO’s dislike for the Island elsewhere, and this prejudice, may well be a driver. Presumably for the reduced network to remain viable, both Stobart and FlyBe now need to make money from it. This must make it more vulnerable. We are also exposed to Stobart finding more productive use for their ATR’s and taking them away, at some future point. Or maybe, the current arrangement is a precursor to the whole network being handed to Stobart?
Aer Lingus - despite the long term stability of the Dublin schedule and relatively high fares, which suggest this is a good route commercially, all flying now outsourced to an ancient (25 year old) Latvian registered ATR. I'll say no more!
Citywing - ploughing on with their niche routes, despite some competition, but not really a ‘proper airline’ in many passengers’ eyes and offering only a tiny amount of capacity, in the overall scheme of things. They have shown, in the past, that, perhaps understandably, have no desire to scale up, to fill gaps that might emerge elsewhere.
British Airways – probably the only tiny bright spot right now; fighting back on frequency, fares and capacity to LCY, and bringing some of their own, high quality, metal to the party. But they are really only a niche player too, in an IOM context, and their LCY centric model means they have no interest in other routes. Unlikely to be a part of a solution if FlyBe or easyJet contract further.
I am not sure what the answer is. The IOMG rejected the idea of any form of licensing, even in a ‘light touch’ form, but my sense is that, for a variety of reasons, the whole network is looking pretty fragile and uncertain, at this point in time.
Where will we be in another 12/18 months?
What can/should the authorities be doing to demonstrate some awareness of the position? Some visible action, to bring more certainty, and stability, would surely be a good thing for passenger and business confidence?
Last edited by Tonyq; 10th Dec 2015 at 15:08.
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How fragile is the IOM network at present?
I think you've hit it in one Tonyq. Since the last time BA decided to stop service to LCY and were eventually convinced through financial incentives to come back I personally have been a bit nervous about stability of the services we have on hand and the resultant impact on local business. I'm almost surprised Flybe are still around and easyJet will, as you say, pull up anchor very quickly if it suits their purposes. In truth, BA provide the only 'real' airline services if one wants to go further than simply point A to point B on a single ticket. Contrast that with what is available in Jersey, for example.
I think one very real problem is the lack of government involvement; as though this essential part of our infrastructure is wholly unimportant. I have seen numerous airport owners decline to allow competition in where it is clear existing services would be cannibalised. That the IOM Government can't do the same on what is essentially a national rather than simply an airport basis is deplorable. That, at least, would give carriers some sense of comfort as to whether it is worthwhile to invest a pot full of money developing routes for a population of 80,000 without the likelihood of some predator carrier coming in to steal the investment.
I think one very real problem is the lack of government involvement; as though this essential part of our infrastructure is wholly unimportant. I have seen numerous airport owners decline to allow competition in where it is clear existing services would be cannibalised. That the IOM Government can't do the same on what is essentially a national rather than simply an airport basis is deplorable. That, at least, would give carriers some sense of comfort as to whether it is worthwhile to invest a pot full of money developing routes for a population of 80,000 without the likelihood of some predator carrier coming in to steal the investment.
Paxing All Over The World
Thread Starter
lfc84
Terry Liddiard, TravelWatch’s spokesman on air services, said EasyJet should recognise its ‘responsibilities to the community in maintaining a “lifeline” service’.
PAXboy
Shed-on-a-Pole
Oh dear. Mr Liddiard should know better.
[Yorkshire accent] When I were a lad ... etc.
The mantra was: The company look after their staff; the staff look after the customer; the customer looks after the company.
In the past 30 years that has all gone out of the window and the ONLY thing that drives big companies now is the share price and the bonus for the boys at the top.
'Shareholder value' has no link to customer value and satisfaction.
Terry Liddiard, TravelWatch’s spokesman on air services, said EasyJet should recognise its ‘responsibilities to the community in maintaining a “lifeline” service’.
PAXboy
I do not know Mr Liddiard but I suggest he has not noticed that purely commercial carriers don't have responsibilities to any other than their shareholders.
He knows. Terry Liddiard is the former CEO of Manx Airlines!
[Yorkshire accent] When I were a lad ... etc.
The mantra was: The company look after their staff; the staff look after the customer; the customer looks after the company.
In the past 30 years that has all gone out of the window and the ONLY thing that drives big companies now is the share price and the bonus for the boys at the top.
'Shareholder value' has no link to customer value and satisfaction.
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Its great news that BACF have increased the number of direct flights to London to up to four a day over the winter and in S16 will move to up to 5 a day with the jet entering service on one of the rotations. This shows real commitment and offers the island a fantastic regular well timed service direct to the heart of London. I have long said how convenient this route is. It is now up to everybody to support the continued success of this route and use it.
Worth letting people know about it and how easy it is to interchange at the London end and that it takes no more than 45 mins from landing to be in central London! I travelled several times over Christmas and it also took less than 5 minutes to clear security on the way back to the Isle of Man. And the fares are very reasonable if booked in advance.
Lets keep the service going!
Worth letting people know about it and how easy it is to interchange at the London end and that it takes no more than 45 mins from landing to be in central London! I travelled several times over Christmas and it also took less than 5 minutes to clear security on the way back to the Isle of Man. And the fares are very reasonable if booked in advance.
Lets keep the service going!
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Stobart ATR tail scrape 22 Dec 2015
The Ronaldsway forum seems to be very quiet about this event:
Stobart Air Avions de Transport Regional ATR-72-212A on behalf of Flybe, registration EI-REM performing flight BE-821 from Manchester,EN to Isle of Man (UK) with 70 people on board, landed on Ronaldsway Airport's runway 26, however, the tail contacted the runway surface.
The AAIB are investigating and the event is rated as "serious".
Be interesting to see the AAIB report.
The French BEA are also on the case.
Stobart Air Avions de Transport Regional ATR-72-212A on behalf of Flybe, registration EI-REM performing flight BE-821 from Manchester,EN to Isle of Man (UK) with 70 people on board, landed on Ronaldsway Airport's runway 26, however, the tail contacted the runway surface.
The AAIB are investigating and the event is rated as "serious".
Be interesting to see the AAIB report.
The French BEA are also on the case.
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IOMX - Yes, the selectively enhanced BACF schedule does show some commitment to the IOM, in contrast to EZY, who show very little commitment in the Summer months, when their lifting capacity is most needed.
Also, BACF seem to have changed their fare mix, and there are now many more entry level fares (£49 each way) which makes this a more attractive option, for the leisure market, if heading for London itself. I have got 6/7 round trips booked, and will soon, say farewell to the EZY 'midnight express' to Gatwick.
I hope that it does well for them.
Also, BACF seem to have changed their fare mix, and there are now many more entry level fares (£49 each way) which makes this a more attractive option, for the leisure market, if heading for London itself. I have got 6/7 round trips booked, and will soon, say farewell to the EZY 'midnight express' to Gatwick.
I hope that it does well for them.
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Tony fella, a fireman bringing caviour in his packed lunch is usually enough to make the front page of the Examiner. Not a mumble about this tailscrape down the Albie. Bad news suppression I reckon.
Good writeup you made about the air services a few weeks ago
Good writeup you made about the air services a few weeks ago
'In the past 30 years that has all gone out of the window and the ONLY thing that drives big companies now is the share price and the bonus for the boys at the top'
Yes and the companies who sustain and increase their share value and remain in business, are those who look after the customers!! Good customer service at the right price will keep the customers coming and will attract new customers. In the hard times, the customers will continue to offer their support. Show no care for the customers and they will show no loyalty to you!!
The IOM air services over many years demonstrate this principle very clearly!!
Yes and the companies who sustain and increase their share value and remain in business, are those who look after the customers!! Good customer service at the right price will keep the customers coming and will attract new customers. In the hard times, the customers will continue to offer their support. Show no care for the customers and they will show no loyalty to you!!
The IOM air services over many years demonstrate this principle very clearly!!
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"Loss of use of the promontory"
Any one got any idea what this report of an exchange in Tynwald was about? Seems to suggest that the multimillion pound construction of the promontory and runway extension might now be vulnerable in some way? Another extension is needed?
No plans for futher Ronaldsway runway extension
Oh and I see that both radar heads are still turning so I guess the CAA have yet to sign off on that project...
No plans for futher Ronaldsway runway extension
Oh and I see that both radar heads are still turning so I guess the CAA have yet to sign off on that project...
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lfc84 cheers for that although the link you provided was broken but it did point me in the right direction. After trawling through what I can only say was mostly drivel I found the question
The full exchange is here Runway Question
I still can't see what prompted the question and the answer is somewhat patronising but I guess that's how our MHKs work...
Nothing to worry about then.
Whether easyJet Airbus aircraft will be able to fly to and from the Isle of Man in the event of the extension to the runway being closed?
I still can't see what prompted the question and the answer is somewhat patronising but I guess that's how our MHKs work...
Nothing to worry about then.
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VLM on MAN - IOM in March
Went through Ronaldsway this morning and was told that VLM will be operating some MAN - IOM sectors from March.
Anyone know why and how all of this fits in with the Stobart takeover of all flights later on?
Rapidly becoming a heritage aircraft route..... and with reduced capacity although on some timings it won't be a problem.
Anyone know why and how all of this fits in with the Stobart takeover of all flights later on?
Rapidly becoming a heritage aircraft route..... and with reduced capacity although on some timings it won't be a problem.
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VLM
Not a very helpful item on the Flybe website (see link below).
Also some very odd Q&As.. especially about firearms. Not sure why these are singled out for VLM flights.
The VLM thread on Pprune estimates that VLM will only have 2 Fokker 50s spare, so they may simply be covering the odd flight as already scheduled, not adding new ones.
No obvious sign on the Flybe booking website of anything to be operated by VLM to IOM.
Anyone spotted anything?
http://flybe.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/963
Also some very odd Q&As.. especially about firearms. Not sure why these are singled out for VLM flights.
The VLM thread on Pprune estimates that VLM will only have 2 Fokker 50s spare, so they may simply be covering the odd flight as already scheduled, not adding new ones.
No obvious sign on the Flybe booking website of anything to be operated by VLM to IOM.
Anyone spotted anything?
http://flybe.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/963
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Quote:
Who came up with the FAQ's
Q: Are firearms allowed to be carried in my hold bag?
A: No, firearms cannot be carried on VLM-operated flights.
Anybody would think Flybe allow firearms on their aircraft freely....
You can take a firearm on board a flybe aircraft as you can not access the holds in flight. Whilst on a VLM aircraft they can be hence the ban.
Who came up with the FAQ's
Q: Are firearms allowed to be carried in my hold bag?
A: No, firearms cannot be carried on VLM-operated flights.
Anybody would think Flybe allow firearms on their aircraft freely....
You can take a firearm on board a flybe aircraft as you can not access the holds in flight. Whilst on a VLM aircraft they can be hence the ban.
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fjencl's reply about accessing the hold on VLM's Fokkers also explains why Stobart Air doesn't allow firearms either due to the forward hold on the ATRs.
However breaking through the forward door and finding your bag in the 25 minutes from Manchester to Ronaldsway is another matter..!
However breaking through the forward door and finding your bag in the 25 minutes from Manchester to Ronaldsway is another matter..!