ISLE OF MAN
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Well if they did, it would be disastrous for the island.
We need more than just the odd daily or 4x weekly service when Easy have an aircraft spare and we need something in between the expensive business oriented carriers with sky high base fares and the ticket seller style operators.
We need more than just the odd daily or 4x weekly service when Easy have an aircraft spare and we need something in between the expensive business oriented carriers with sky high base fares and the ticket seller style operators.
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I'm afraid 'the island' seem to be marching with their feet - too EZY.
Just talking to all my friends in IOM, although leisure, booked up a few flights well in advance for Foofball weekends etc.
Just talking to all my friends in IOM, although leisure, booked up a few flights well in advance for Foofball weekends etc.
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Of course, they'll march to EZY with their cheap fares. Then if/when Flybe do throw in the towel and EZY (sensibly) hike up the fares, they'll be complaining that they're left with very limited options and no cheap fares.
It's been said again and again, the IOM market is not big enough to support multiple carriers. Flybe strike a balance between frequency for business travellers and reasonable fares for leisure travellers who book early and take advantage of sales etc.
Flybe are a business, not a charity and may at some point cut their losses and run and that point there will be waves of "I told you so" from many people. The IOM would be left with a very limited service that will cause havoc for many businesses who rely on good links to MAN, BHX, LPL and LGW.
Gone would be the days code shares to CDG with AF and AUH (and beyond) with EY and the benefits of interlining with VS, EK and BA etc.
Need I go on?
It's been said again and again, the IOM market is not big enough to support multiple carriers. Flybe strike a balance between frequency for business travellers and reasonable fares for leisure travellers who book early and take advantage of sales etc.
Flybe are a business, not a charity and may at some point cut their losses and run and that point there will be waves of "I told you so" from many people. The IOM would be left with a very limited service that will cause havoc for many businesses who rely on good links to MAN, BHX, LPL and LGW.
Gone would be the days code shares to CDG with AF and AUH (and beyond) with EY and the benefits of interlining with VS, EK and BA etc.
Need I go on?
Last edited by JC25; 11th Dec 2012 at 17:50.
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Although IOM has a small population EZY could be more successful if they offered through flights from BFS via IOM to other destinations or greater frequency to LGW. With allocated seating this could be a realistic
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and what about the inbound passengers?
Looking at the figures since Easy launched their service I would say that has not been the case, they have merely taken traffic from the Steam Packet, BPL, LBA etc. I also doubt if there is 140 odd people daily in the southeast of England suddenly planning a visit to the IOM because of cheap fares from Easy on the LGW route.
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JC25 - Excellent post and summary of all that has been said on here before. The big question, is how close to the tipping point where BE throw in the towel are we?
GAZMO - EZY model is based around uncomplicated point to point flying. I don't think there is anywhere on their entire network where the scenario you have outlined can be found. Are they likely buck their model for the little old IOM?
Pabely - Be careful what you wish for.............
GAZMO - EZY model is based around uncomplicated point to point flying. I don't think there is anywhere on their entire network where the scenario you have outlined can be found. Are they likely buck their model for the little old IOM?
Pabely - Be careful what you wish for.............
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A quick internet search shows Easyjets average load factor at 85%. Dont know how accurate this is but i'd be suprised if they are any where near this on their IOM routes.
Any one know what it is on IOM routes?
Any one know what it is on IOM routes?
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bonatti,
IOM airport publish the figures by route and also totals by carrier, hence if we look at November we can work out the overall load factor of easyJet on the combined two IOM routes to LPL and LGW.
Total passengers carried by easyJet in November to/from IOM: 12170
Total seats flown by easyJet in November to/from IOM: 23088
Therefore overall loadfactor 52.7%
They had 20% of all capacity on the IOM with 34 weekly 319 services.
We can therefore infer that if total passengers carried on combined IOM LPL and LGW routes was 29,516, easyJet had a share of 41% of the traffic, not a bad achievement given the low frequency of the flights.
Not taking from the points made about easyJet on IOM and the longer terms effects that their low fares may have for the Island in any way.
EI-BUD
IOM airport publish the figures by route and also totals by carrier, hence if we look at November we can work out the overall load factor of easyJet on the combined two IOM routes to LPL and LGW.
Total passengers carried by easyJet in November to/from IOM: 12170
Total seats flown by easyJet in November to/from IOM: 23088
Therefore overall loadfactor 52.7%
They had 20% of all capacity on the IOM with 34 weekly 319 services.
We can therefore infer that if total passengers carried on combined IOM LPL and LGW routes was 29,516, easyJet had a share of 41% of the traffic, not a bad achievement given the low frequency of the flights.
Not taking from the points made about easyJet on IOM and the longer terms effects that their low fares may have for the Island in any way.
EI-BUD
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Tonyq - I honesty don't know how close to the tipping pint things on IOM are for BE. It could well be that the routes are still profitable or at least paying their way. But in the context of the airline more generally making losses and looking to cut costs wherever possible, I'd say the IOM routes are quite vulnerable right now. Flybe are not in a position to maintain service on unprofitable routes in the hope that things will pick up soon.
However, another part of my thinks that BE may play it strategically and take losses on IOM in the hope that EZY will back off first and the revenue will start flowing back in again. If BE show signs of rolling over when under pressure, it may give a big green light to EZY to move in on other lucrative routes that so far have been off EZY's radar.
Truth is no one knows other than those at the top of the commercial department in BE. I hope they don't give in as there are a lot of hard working and loyal staff on the IOM who would be devastated to find themselves without a job.
On a sentimemtal note, a good number of the crew based at IOM with BE have many years of continuous service going back to Manx Airlines days. They've trawled those routes for decades serving the locals and its sad that those very locals they take pleasure in serving are so quick to abandon them for the orange bus.
However, another part of my thinks that BE may play it strategically and take losses on IOM in the hope that EZY will back off first and the revenue will start flowing back in again. If BE show signs of rolling over when under pressure, it may give a big green light to EZY to move in on other lucrative routes that so far have been off EZY's radar.
Truth is no one knows other than those at the top of the commercial department in BE. I hope they don't give in as there are a lot of hard working and loyal staff on the IOM who would be devastated to find themselves without a job.
On a sentimemtal note, a good number of the crew based at IOM with BE have many years of continuous service going back to Manx Airlines days. They've trawled those routes for decades serving the locals and its sad that those very locals they take pleasure in serving are so quick to abandon them for the orange bus.
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JC25,
Do you feel that they have not seen a green light already making an attack on many BE markets?
How many routes have easyJet entered that effect important markets for BE?
Belfast Birmingham (easyJet carried 14k reports say in the local media)
Belfast Manchester
Services Ex LGW
Now starting routes to NQY that will infringe on LGW numbers?
Quite a few other routes taking serious competition, e.g. Belfast City LGW by Aer Lingus and rumours of more EI routes ex BHD on BE network.
Given that BE are reportedly losing big bucks, I feel that a cull of underperforming routes are coming and EZY know who to pitch their battles against.
EI-BUD
it may give a big green light to EZY to move in on other lucrative routes that so far have been off EZY's radar
How many routes have easyJet entered that effect important markets for BE?
Belfast Birmingham (easyJet carried 14k reports say in the local media)
Belfast Manchester
Services Ex LGW
Now starting routes to NQY that will infringe on LGW numbers?
Quite a few other routes taking serious competition, e.g. Belfast City LGW by Aer Lingus and rumours of more EI routes ex BHD on BE network.
Given that BE are reportedly losing big bucks, I feel that a cull of underperforming routes are coming and EZY know who to pitch their battles against.
EI-BUD
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EI-BUD - I think there's one or two errors in your calculations.
EZY operated 19 LGW rotations and 44 LPL rotations in November giving a total seat count of 19656, and a L/F of 62%. Well below the network average.
Through further analysis it is possible to work out that the average load on LPL is 95 pax (61%) and LGW 100 (64%).
JC25 - agree, that we don't know what the BE numbers look like and what their strategy is, especially when they are battling EZY on other fronts too.
Bearing in mind that in their recent financials they stated that they wanted to reduce supplier costs by £2 per seat in the next year, I'd guess their commercial people will be having a fairly robust conversation regarding charges with the AD. Her strategy of opening the doors to EZY and shooting her mouth off about the Airport's high cost base has given the guys from Exeter a few cards to play.
EZY operated 19 LGW rotations and 44 LPL rotations in November giving a total seat count of 19656, and a L/F of 62%. Well below the network average.
Through further analysis it is possible to work out that the average load on LPL is 95 pax (61%) and LGW 100 (64%).
JC25 - agree, that we don't know what the BE numbers look like and what their strategy is, especially when they are battling EZY on other fronts too.
Bearing in mind that in their recent financials they stated that they wanted to reduce supplier costs by £2 per seat in the next year, I'd guess their commercial people will be having a fairly robust conversation regarding charges with the AD. Her strategy of opening the doors to EZY and shooting her mouth off about the Airport's high cost base has given the guys from Exeter a few cards to play.
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Hi Tonyq;
Sorry for mistake, I was taking typical rotations per day and adding them for Nov. Did the frequency increase at some point during November as I understand
LGW is 1-34567 (6 per week) and LPL Daily with 2 on days 1--45-7 (11 per week), 1 on days -23--6-?
EI-BUD
Sorry for mistake, I was taking typical rotations per day and adding them for Nov. Did the frequency increase at some point during November as I understand
LGW is 1-34567 (6 per week) and LPL Daily with 2 on days 1--45-7 (11 per week), 1 on days -23--6-?
EI-BUD
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The general pattern is LGW 1--45-7, LPL is daily with a second flight 1---5-7.
There were some extra flights in October and over half-term and there will be more at Xmas.
There are also some reductions ahead, in January. In fact there will be a few 'EZY-free' days at Ronaldsway in mid-Jan.
There were some extra flights in October and over half-term and there will be more at Xmas.
There are also some reductions ahead, in January. In fact there will be a few 'EZY-free' days at Ronaldsway in mid-Jan.
Last edited by Tonyq; 11th Dec 2012 at 23:12.
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Tonyq.....once EZY start ordering more aircraft we could see a smaller aircraft enter the fleet. BE will be very afraid then all over their network, although it won't be for a few years yet!
As far as causing havoc to businesses in the IOM, I think you will find most businesses in the UK use EZY & RYR anyhow throughout Europe. Gone are the days of Amex Gold accounts & business class. It is a very lean outfit which survives and BE are bleeding at the moment.
As far as causing havoc to businesses in the IOM, I think you will find most businesses in the UK use EZY & RYR anyhow throughout Europe. Gone are the days of Amex Gold accounts & business class. It is a very lean outfit which survives and BE are bleeding at the moment.
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once EZY start ordering more aircraft we could see a smaller aircraft enter the fleet
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EZY only do one rotation to LGW a day, lunch time. So example, business man / woman wants to have an early meeting, they have to travel the day before, have their meeting then Travel back the next day. 3 day trip or fly with BA to london City. Now what is the cheapest ticket?
We need the frequency of Flybe and not the occasional cheap ticket with EZY. Flybe are cheap if you book in advance. It annoys me on the island that people only look short term, not long term. As soon as the economy picks up EZY will be off, then who will service the island?
The island needs regulating, just like the ferry. Gurnsey do it and it works well there. Refer to the 'blue skies' debate where these questions are being asked.
One last point, Flybe are based on the island. The only airline to be fully crewed from here(Manx2 is a ticket airline, not Manx), so how many jobs will be lost if they pull out? 60ish? No longer paying tax and contributing to society. A very sad loss.
Islanders, please wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late!
We need the frequency of Flybe and not the occasional cheap ticket with EZY. Flybe are cheap if you book in advance. It annoys me on the island that people only look short term, not long term. As soon as the economy picks up EZY will be off, then who will service the island?
The island needs regulating, just like the ferry. Gurnsey do it and it works well there. Refer to the 'blue skies' debate where these questions are being asked.
One last point, Flybe are based on the island. The only airline to be fully crewed from here(Manx2 is a ticket airline, not Manx), so how many jobs will be lost if they pull out? 60ish? No longer paying tax and contributing to society. A very sad loss.
Islanders, please wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late!
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sdryh Those of us who are of an age to remember how grim the air services to and from the island were pre Manx Airlines (the eighties version, not the earlier one!); those of us with business interests requiring off island travel or onto island trips by clients/advisors; those of us who want to interline our travel beyond the UK; those of us who want to be comfortable that we "customers" will be supported in the event of technical or weather delays; those of us who understand the expression you get what you pay for; those of us who travel frequently for whatever reason and like to be greeted as an individual, sometimes by name - we smelt the coffee years ago when easyJet operations from LPL were first mooted.
But we are a voice crying aloud in the aviation wilderness. We can only hope that there is a huge economic upturn for the island (unlikely) to support all three London bound airlines.
I did boat and train as a youngster, and, more recently when the ash cloud arrived. It takes forever. God forbid we return to those days, or even to the days of Cambrian's London via Liverpool service. But it could happen!!
But we are a voice crying aloud in the aviation wilderness. We can only hope that there is a huge economic upturn for the island (unlikely) to support all three London bound airlines.
I did boat and train as a youngster, and, more recently when the ash cloud arrived. It takes forever. God forbid we return to those days, or even to the days of Cambrian's London via Liverpool service. But it could happen!!
