ISLE OF MAN

[Tonyq]

I doubt there are many people from the 'business community' using EZY. Certainly don't seem to many of them interspersed with the 'Primark Brigade' when I've watched the 'Pully Bus' decanting it's punters.

[pabely]

I counted only 18 on the IOM - LTN today, not suprised it's days are numbered.

[Tinwald]

fellas, let's not get too sentimental. flybe are getting a dose of the medicine they've been quite happy to dole out to others.

I dont remember to many tears being shed on these pages when the euromanxies went down with 70 job losses.

True some of the flybe crews have been here along time but many of them have lead charmed lives compared to the chaos that's gone through the airline business on the mainland and around the world.

Chickens home to roost or the real world cathcing up with Fraggle - take your pick but when the oranges are offering a return to gatwick for the blues oneway bit, there is and will be no contest, yessir

[Capt. Horrendous]

Tinwald, unlike the current 'battle', Flybe fought like for like with EMX in that they both had similar sized planes based on the Island. The current situation is most definitely not the same. Now, if EZY were to base aircraft here and offer a similar frequency of services as the island based operators, there would be no argument.

[Hansol]

EZY are not interested in doing anything serious on the island. The current services are merely filling slots in their schedule. If a better use for the aircraft came along they would be gone in a shot. The Islands population and its governmant have never been interested in having a stable secure air service. They have always encouraged price wars which will always lead to what we have now. That said business travel is down, money is tight and we will inevitably end up with a service that fits the market. Unfortunately we are getting close to the point where it is probably uneconomical to run the levels of service we have seen in the past.
I think the service from Flybe has been good, far better then the good ole Manx airlines days which everyone seems to long for through rose tinted glasses. Euromanx was poorly run and had to go. I hope the guys at Manx2 can hang on.
In the end there is always the boat. Now thats the way to do a deal with the Manx government

[kapton]

Capt Horrendous. There was no battle between Flybe, and Euromanx. Flybe used its superior financial position to undercut Euromanx for 4 months, prior to launching services on Euromanx's prime routes of Manchester and Liverpool. Flybe knew the vulnerability of Euromanx's situation, and set out to drive it out of business. The rest is history. The unforeseen circumstance of this was that Euromanx operated the only business connection to London. Forget Gatwick, it is not a business connection to London, just as Kiddlington is not, and never will be a London airport. Once Euromanx had gone, the island lost its only convenient connection to the financial capital of Europe. What a signal to send to the general business community. Effectively, the Isle of Man was turning off its own life-support machine. Do you really think Flybe cared? No. It now had the opportunity to conduct nothing but a shakedown on its monopoly routes. Trust me, I know. Having flown on Flybe for business(paid for by myself), and leisure.
Hansol. The rose-tinted spectacle times you speak of during Manx Airlines times. Although they may not have been perfect. Maybe people hark back to the times when Manx Airlines employed about a 1000 people locally. Or, who every year took on local school leavers as engineering apprenticees. Or, maybe they wish they could arrive at the check-in desk early and be transferred to a more convenient flight, free of charge. Or, maybe it's the fact that what is now a hotel used to be Manx Airlines, administration department. As for Euromanx, who are you to say they needed to go? Yes the boss didn't know an aeroplane from a paper plane. But do you think waking up in the morning to no job, and no pay was fun? And, "needed to go"?
I truly hope that the island is able to accommodate both Flybe, and EasyJet, but going on the history of the last few years, some sort of reduction of choice of routes of the island seems likely. The Summer timetables will be a good barometer of the state of aviation on the island.

[Hansol]

And who was it that sold out Manx Airlines? When the money was offered for the Heathrow slot, the deal was done and there was very little thought given to the employees. Efficient airlines prosper, generally the ones that are loved the most are in reality lousey businesses and end up going the way of lousey businesses. History is littered with wonderful airlines we all enjoyed working for! Wake up! its the toughest business on the planet and only the best survive.
Punctuality at Manx was awful, the ATP was awful, customer service was awful, ticket prices were high....hence it no longer exists.

[lfc84]

Originally Posted by kapton

Or, maybe they wish they could arrive at the check-in desk early and be transferred to a more convenient flight, free of charge.

easyjet definitely offer this, and perhaps manx2/citiwing

[Capt. Horrendous]

Kapton, I think you missed my point slightly. When Flybe and EMX went head to head they were in direct competition, both had planes and crews based here, and flew similar routes. The one with the bigger pockets won, that's what tends to happen and is one of the privileges of living in a capitalist society.

In the main, Flybe offered a direct replacement to the services offered by EMX - with the obvious exception of LCY. The viability of the LCY route warrants a thread of it's own, but history has shown that it's been a bit of a struggle to make it viable. British European, VLM and Aer Aran couldn't make it work, who knows whether EMX were making money on it. Maybe BACF using an Eastern Airways Saab can - time will tell.

Easyjet, should they make Flybe's tenure on the Island unviable, will never be able to offer the range and frequency of services currently available . There would be two flights per day at the most to the main destinations. Foggy days will see their aircraft divert back to base in the UK to carry on their lines of work elsewhere. Locally based aircraft would be more minded to hold for an improvement for a longer period and would always return to the Island following and diversion. Since the runway extension at Ronaldsway the landing minima have increased, weather diversions are much more likely.

[EI-BUD]

I think the service from Flybe has been good, far better then the good ole Manx airlines days which everyone seems to long for through rose tinted glasses

Hansol,
I feel that it is hard to make a fair comparsion between Flybe of today and Manx Airlines of their time. Custom was different then and it has taken the last decade and the impact of low cost airlines and consolidation to bring the industry to where it is. Airlines now put such a focus on on time performance and making the operations as lean as possible. Custom and practice is quite different now, and costs have declined. Cost has a role to play in any comparison, I feel.

I used to fly frequently to visit relations on DUB IOM BLK, sometimes on 146 for some parts of the trip and often Shorts 360. I found Manx to be a good little airlines.

The company with the deepest pockets will prevail. I cant see EasyJet retreating from any BE route, and they will hold out on LGW until they can move BE and given BEs challenges at the moment, we will see just how long they sit this one out. Loser will be the IOM economy in terms of jobs, however, if easyjet can stimulate extra traffic that will have an upside, but to date the figures show a ripple effect across all airlines, with Manx2 feeling pain and BEs challenges well documented. The question is does or will easyJets presence on the IOM stimulate traffic overall in a market that is in decline?

I would imagine if BE axed IOM EZY could step LGW to x 3 daily...

[manx crab]

easyjet definitely offer this, and perhaps manx2/citiwing

Yes, Easyjet do, and its very sensible move and Flybe should offer it, however, its not much use when there is only one flight per day or every other day.

If you look at the summer schedule to Lpl, two flights a day only on Sat/Sun, must have something better for the aircraft to do in the week.

[pabely]

This is one of my big turn-off's about BE. Been International via MAN or LGW with approx 6 hour stop-over built in. Arrive on time or early, find a BE flight going in the next 2 hours, approach BE desk to transfer ticket, of course sir but that will cost you £250! (then on one occation they cancel my orginal flight after the earlier one has gone). I know they want to extract more money from me but I avoid booking with them if I can, so they loose out in the end anyhow!

[tarnehat]

EasyJet and Manx2 both have the free early transfer, and they also both have a rescue fee, to save buying a new ticket if you miss the flight. Always helps if a meeting runs short or long!

FlyBe do not, and it's a real pain ... how can people say FlyBe has better customer service when they do stuff like this?

[AirLCY]

EI-BUD

How do you think Easy will do 3 daily if BE stop? BE do 4 daily with half the capacity on each aircraft, not forgetting they weren't even 3/4 full before Easyjet. Therefore max is likely to be 2 daily with a poor schedule as peak slots will be used at LGW for more lucrative routes.

As I've said before IOM may regret Easyjet's arrival longer term, great cheap fares in the short term though.

[Tinwald]

kapton,fella, far better put and eloqwently put than me. My mate down the Albie says the euromanxies were easily holding their own on the manchester route and london city was a good and profitable service. behind the scenes money funny business was probably more to blame for the reds ending but flybe coming onto liverpool was the death blow and about that there can be no arguement.

But all history. Just made a trip with the oranges down last sunday and must have been nudging 90 on board and back today with well over 50. Those blue aircraft must be feeling pretty empty. If the so-called business people on fraggle want their early and late flight I'm sure the blues will oblige and leave the afternoon run to the oranges. My mate says that aviation abwhores a vacum so if the blues upped and went, you can bet your shirt someone would fill the space, yessir

[manx crab]

Tinwald, its not just business people that want high frequency services. If I am on a leisure trip I don't want to have to waste 2 days getting there and back and I want to do it at a reasonable fare if I am prepared to book early and be flexible and Flybe do this at the moment.

Euromanx would never have survived because it was a financial basket case, Flybe may have put the last nail in the coffin but the coffin was of its own making. And it cost the taxpayer a lot of money.

[Rivet Joint]

Sou route

It seems that the Sou-Iom route has good loads with the airport themselves even quoting its absence as a main factor in figures being down. With BE now having bigger fish to fry I wonder if Eastern or even Manx2 will try it? Surely it
Makes more sense for Manx2 than Oxford?

[tarnehat]

It seems that the Sou-Iom route has good loads with the airport themselves even quoting its absence as a main factor in figures being down. With BE now having bigger fish to fry I wonder if Eastern or even Manx2 will try it?

I e-mailed Aer Arann, Eastern and Manx2 when FlyBe pulled off originally to suggest it. Manx2 got back to me and said they didn't have any plans for it as Oxford was about an hour away straight down the road. But with that gone, who knows - wouldn't bet on it though, not until fuel prices come down or APD disappears.

With flights so cheap to Gatwick with Easyjet, not enough people would be willing to pay what Eastern would charge for it either.

[Rivet Joint]

Thanks for the info Tarnehat.

I think BE will have their hands busy elsewhere and Eastern maybe not the right fit leaving Manx2 free to give it a go. No offence to Oxford but the Sou route has far more pedigree and surely on Manx's smaller planes it would create good yeilds. Worth a shot.

[Hansol]

Manx 2 don't have any planes. The company that were providing them had their AOC pulled because of financial problems. Lets hope the new Manx 2 have a reliable source of equipment for the new year....Feb could be a tough month.