DURHAM AIRPORT - 2
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DTVairport
I disagree with your post.
What you state as likely to happen has not happened at ANY other UK airport where the lo-cos have entered a KLM dominated market, e.g LBA, NCL, CWL or BRS, in fact it has been proven that there is room for both full service AND loco operations on such routes. I would think that a once daily WW MME-AMS flight would do just fine.
Regards
Mike
I disagree with your post.
What you state as likely to happen has not happened at ANY other UK airport where the lo-cos have entered a KLM dominated market, e.g LBA, NCL, CWL or BRS, in fact it has been proven that there is room for both full service AND loco operations on such routes. I would think that a once daily WW MME-AMS flight would do just fine.
Regards
Mike
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Originally Posted by MME4eva
what the bigwigs at WW need to realise fast is that only routes not served by either NCL or LBA but which have proved popular at other regional airports will prove popular!
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If this is true conerning baby it still leaves serveral rotations a week to be filled in the winter. Has anyone heard of what may replace the Knock if anything?
MME4eva a few things. First yes the Knock was a surprise and many didn't think it would work, but it wasn't daily.
Secondly BRS and BRU are two totally different kettles of fish. On the BRS Eastern were competing with easyjet and just couldn't compete on the route. On the BRU route they are competing with bmi and SN. Yes more competion but probably a better route to muscle in on. Also there are many in the area who have asked for the route. I have spoken to several people who would use it and I have nothing to do with the Chamber of Commerce. Just hope the route is properly advertised.
Also do you realise you have contradicted yourself as well. Prague is flown out of both NCL and LBA. I think if you say that baby should be targeting route not served out of LBA or NCL you'll be left with very few. Maybe Knock would be a good one, oh hang on tried that.
Route that are served out of both LBA and NCL can and have proved popular with baby and other users out of MME, Prague and Rome to name two.
On a different note I have noticed that there has been a lack column inches in the Northern Echo regarding easyjet and their prblems at Newcastle. I remember bmibaby being slated in the Northern Echo for trying their hardest to get people back to Jersey a few months back. Can someone explain to me why there is such a bias in he North East towards Newcastle? Are Newcastle throwing bungs the way of the papers to gain such favourable reviews?
MME4eva a few things. First yes the Knock was a surprise and many didn't think it would work, but it wasn't daily.
Secondly BRS and BRU are two totally different kettles of fish. On the BRS Eastern were competing with easyjet and just couldn't compete on the route. On the BRU route they are competing with bmi and SN. Yes more competion but probably a better route to muscle in on. Also there are many in the area who have asked for the route. I have spoken to several people who would use it and I have nothing to do with the Chamber of Commerce. Just hope the route is properly advertised.
Also do you realise you have contradicted yourself as well. Prague is flown out of both NCL and LBA. I think if you say that baby should be targeting route not served out of LBA or NCL you'll be left with very few. Maybe Knock would be a good one, oh hang on tried that.
Route that are served out of both LBA and NCL can and have proved popular with baby and other users out of MME, Prague and Rome to name two.
On a different note I have noticed that there has been a lack column inches in the Northern Echo regarding easyjet and their prblems at Newcastle. I remember bmibaby being slated in the Northern Echo for trying their hardest to get people back to Jersey a few months back. Can someone explain to me why there is such a bias in he North East towards Newcastle? Are Newcastle throwing bungs the way of the papers to gain such favourable reviews?
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Onion:- with regards to your "I have spoken to several people who would use it" comment about the Brussels route, Eastern said the exact same words about the Bristol route.
With regards to advertising, although the Bristol route was well advertised, the adverts were annoying - they were on the rear of nearly every Arriva bus and on hundreds of billboards around Darlo, including one at the Train Station. The annoying part was the "Maureen was thrilled when she heard about our new route to Bristol from Durham Tees Valley" and the image of a 1930s woman wiping a tear of joy from her eye!
With regards to advertising, although the Bristol route was well advertised, the adverts were annoying - they were on the rear of nearly every Arriva bus and on hundreds of billboards around Darlo, including one at the Train Station. The annoying part was the "Maureen was thrilled when she heard about our new route to Bristol from Durham Tees Valley" and the image of a 1930s woman wiping a tear of joy from her eye!
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DTVAirport I think the problem with the Bristol was yes people wanted to fly the route, remember a few years back that there were about two or three charters a day between Filton and MME, they just couldn't justify the cost of the flight compared to flying out of Newcastle. I think BRU stands a better chance of working than the BRS ever did. Regarding the advertising of the BRS I never noticed any, maybe because I walk around half asleep, maybe because the advertising just didn't work.
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Two or three CHARTERS per DAY?!! Wow! I thought Filton was a BAe Systems manufacturing facility which didn't accept commercial flights though? Who operated the flights and what equipment did they use?
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Can't remember the company that operated the aircraft callsign was Prestige. The equipment was Navajos. started three rotations a day but then went down to two. Sometimes the rotations were doubled up either with another Navajo or a Cessna 404. I think they were operating for Hutchinson Telecom. They operated for months if not years, not really sure.
Filton as far as I know, aren't allowed schedule services.
Filton as far as I know, aren't allowed schedule services.
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From www.airlinecodes.co.uk
ICAO Call Sign: Prestige
IATA Code: None
ICAO Code: EGL
Known As: Capital Trading Aviation
Full Name: Capital Trading Aviation Ltd
Country: United Kingdom
Website: None
Ring any bells?
ICAO Call Sign: Prestige
IATA Code: None
ICAO Code: EGL
Known As: Capital Trading Aviation
Full Name: Capital Trading Aviation Ltd
Country: United Kingdom
Website: None
Ring any bells?
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Originally Posted by onion
... On the BRU route they are competing with bmi and SN. Yes more competion but probably a better route to muscle in on...
I myself was very surprised to hear such a route announced, especially twice daily (even if it is only a small aircraft)! With the prices Eastern charge they will only be flying business passengers
I wish them well, but hold my breath. If ever I need to render myself in Durham it will probably be with BMI to Leeds or SN Brussels to Newcastle, because they will most likely be the cheapest option...
Brunel to Concorde
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Re DTVAirport's and onion's allusions to Filton and the BRU route from MME,
Filton is owned by Bae but is much more than a factory field.
It styles itself as Bristol Filton Airport (I'd better not give the web link because of PPRuNe's advertising policy) but a Google search will soon find it for anyone interested.
It receives all sorts of aircraft from 747s to private single-engined machines (and could accept the A 380), and refurbishes, repairs, stores, provides taxi and similar services as well as a timetabled scheduled programme on weekdays, but the latter is mainly in connection with aerospace activities. It will also operate Bristol's night mail flights this winter because the BRS runway is being closed for re-surfacing each night.
It is also used for some diversions when BRS is fog-bound but this is limited and usually restricted to the smaller turbo props.
As for the BRU market, it is not a big one.
CAA stats for June show that apart from LHR with nearly 70,000 pax, MAN with 15,000-plus and BHX with 14,000-plus, every other UK airport with a BRU route fared modestly, and June 's figures are not untypical.
LCY had 6,534 and LGW had 5282.
The smaller regional airports (sorry EDI!) that reported for June show BRS with 5720, EDI with 3766, LBA with 2858, SOU with 1738 and CWL with 509.
It would be interesting to see the sort of figures a MME-BRU route would pull in and whether they would make money for Eastern.
The pulled MME-BRS route achieved these monthly figures in the first months of this year, respectively 799, 895, 902 and 658. As a comparison the easyJet NCL-BRS carries between 20,000 and 22,000 most months.
Presumably Eastern would look for larger loads than their defunct MME-BRS on a MME-BRU route.
Filton is owned by Bae but is much more than a factory field.
It styles itself as Bristol Filton Airport (I'd better not give the web link because of PPRuNe's advertising policy) but a Google search will soon find it for anyone interested.
It receives all sorts of aircraft from 747s to private single-engined machines (and could accept the A 380), and refurbishes, repairs, stores, provides taxi and similar services as well as a timetabled scheduled programme on weekdays, but the latter is mainly in connection with aerospace activities. It will also operate Bristol's night mail flights this winter because the BRS runway is being closed for re-surfacing each night.
It is also used for some diversions when BRS is fog-bound but this is limited and usually restricted to the smaller turbo props.
As for the BRU market, it is not a big one.
CAA stats for June show that apart from LHR with nearly 70,000 pax, MAN with 15,000-plus and BHX with 14,000-plus, every other UK airport with a BRU route fared modestly, and June 's figures are not untypical.
LCY had 6,534 and LGW had 5282.
The smaller regional airports (sorry EDI!) that reported for June show BRS with 5720, EDI with 3766, LBA with 2858, SOU with 1738 and CWL with 509.
It would be interesting to see the sort of figures a MME-BRU route would pull in and whether they would make money for Eastern.
The pulled MME-BRS route achieved these monthly figures in the first months of this year, respectively 799, 895, 902 and 658. As a comparison the easyJet NCL-BRS carries between 20,000 and 22,000 most months.
Presumably Eastern would look for larger loads than their defunct MME-BRS on a MME-BRU route.
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Allusion : casual remark, hint, indirect reference, innuendo, mention, suggestion
Merchant regarding Filton, BRS and BRU.
I will actually take from your post here to support my argument and actually question Eastern.
If we take the four figures posted by you, (799, 895, 902 and 658), and forget about the last one which was probably due to the fact that the service had gone down from three to two rotations a day. These figure suggest to me that the route was actually growing. Ok not very fast and Eastern probably decided that the aircraft was better utilised on another route.
There were people there wanting to use the route as proved by you above, but I did say that the competion at NCL was probably just too much for Eastern.
Regarding Filton, there was a service between Filton and MME and I only said as far as I know Filton aren't allowed scheduled services. I'm not an expert.
Now with regard to the BRU service. Yes the market maybe small but isn't that why Eastern has announced a service with just two rotations a day with a 29 seater aircraft. Don't forget that there will be people using both the LBA and the NCL services to BRU that would prefer to fly from MME. On top these there will be currently people using the Heathrow service out of MME to get to BRU.
I will actually take from your post here to support my argument and actually question Eastern.
If we take the four figures posted by you, (799, 895, 902 and 658), and forget about the last one which was probably due to the fact that the service had gone down from three to two rotations a day. These figure suggest to me that the route was actually growing. Ok not very fast and Eastern probably decided that the aircraft was better utilised on another route.
There were people there wanting to use the route as proved by you above, but I did say that the competion at NCL was probably just too much for Eastern.
Regarding Filton, there was a service between Filton and MME and I only said as far as I know Filton aren't allowed scheduled services. I'm not an expert.
Now with regard to the BRU service. Yes the market maybe small but isn't that why Eastern has announced a service with just two rotations a day with a 29 seater aircraft. Don't forget that there will be people using both the LBA and the NCL services to BRU that would prefer to fly from MME. On top these there will be currently people using the Heathrow service out of MME to get to BRU.
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onion
The MME-BRS figures I quoted were taken from the CAA published route stats and as of course the Eastern service was the only one on the route the totals must relate to them (all the pax shown were in the scheduled column- there were no charters).
I have no knowledge about a Filton-Teesside service and am interested to learn that there was one in the past.
In fact, around 1996 Bae wanted to turn Filton into a city airport, There were many objectors including, unsurprisingly BRS, and a public enquiry was held. Following this the relevant government minister (Selwyn Gummer) turned down the application.
It is a source of regret to many that the city council did not opt for Filton instead of Lulsgate when they moved from the old Whitchurch airport in the mid 1950s. They could have done so but would have been tenants of the aeroplance company. Filton has so many physical attributes that Lulsgate doesn't have.
My knowledge of the Northeast market is practically non-existent so again I am interested to read your take on the likely scenario of a MME-BRU service.
Sabena and now SNBrussels have operated BRS-BRU for many years (most of the year it is a 3 times a day 146/ARJ route with a token weekend service).
Average monthly loads are rarely much above 50%, sometimes less, and one does wonder how profitable it is. As the Belgian carrier keeps persisting with it one must assume they are satisfied.
I shall watch any developments on a MME-BRU service with great interest.
The MME-BRS figures I quoted were taken from the CAA published route stats and as of course the Eastern service was the only one on the route the totals must relate to them (all the pax shown were in the scheduled column- there were no charters).
I have no knowledge about a Filton-Teesside service and am interested to learn that there was one in the past.
In fact, around 1996 Bae wanted to turn Filton into a city airport, There were many objectors including, unsurprisingly BRS, and a public enquiry was held. Following this the relevant government minister (Selwyn Gummer) turned down the application.
It is a source of regret to many that the city council did not opt for Filton instead of Lulsgate when they moved from the old Whitchurch airport in the mid 1950s. They could have done so but would have been tenants of the aeroplance company. Filton has so many physical attributes that Lulsgate doesn't have.
My knowledge of the Northeast market is practically non-existent so again I am interested to read your take on the likely scenario of a MME-BRU service.
Sabena and now SNBrussels have operated BRS-BRU for many years (most of the year it is a 3 times a day 146/ARJ route with a token weekend service).
Average monthly loads are rarely much above 50%, sometimes less, and one does wonder how profitable it is. As the Belgian carrier keeps persisting with it one must assume they are satisfied.
I shall watch any developments on a MME-BRU service with great interest.
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Yes the Filton-Teesside ran I think for Hutchinson Telecom who are based in Darlington. I think it had alot to do with the setting up of their 3rd generation mobile phone arm 3G. Yes all the pax between MME and BRS were scheduled. Just interesting to see that there was a general trend upwards apart from the last month.
"In fact, around 1996 Bae wanted to turn Filton into a city airport, There were many objectors including, unsurprisingly BRS, and a public enquiry was held. Following this the relevant government minister (Selwyn Gummer) turned down the application." Maybe this is what I had heard and interpreted as not being allowed scheduled services, can't remember.
Regarding the BRU I don't think its just BRS running at what seems to be a low load factor on the route. LBA for example has 11 rotations a week (I think) run by an emb 145, it maybe a 135. I think with Brussels being one of the centres for the European Parliament fares must be quite high, either that or the routes are heavily subsidised.
"In fact, around 1996 Bae wanted to turn Filton into a city airport, There were many objectors including, unsurprisingly BRS, and a public enquiry was held. Following this the relevant government minister (Selwyn Gummer) turned down the application." Maybe this is what I had heard and interpreted as not being allowed scheduled services, can't remember.
Regarding the BRU I don't think its just BRS running at what seems to be a low load factor on the route. LBA for example has 11 rotations a week (I think) run by an emb 145, it maybe a 135. I think with Brussels being one of the centres for the European Parliament fares must be quite high, either that or the routes are heavily subsidised.
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I understand the traffic for the Sunderland Air Show will be arriving tomorrow (28-07-06)? If so could someone tell me what, but more importantly when it will be arriving and where the best place to view them is?
I've got a day off work tomorrow so myself and my Grandparents are thinking about going down to watch.
I've got a day off work tomorrow so myself and my Grandparents are thinking about going down to watch.
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Looks like some school kids project if you ask me. I would'nt think this is any more realistic than the reports of Singapore Airlines starting daily nonstop service from Singapore to the Isle of Man!
Regards
Mike
Regards
Mike
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aeulad I also have my doubts regarding this latest rumour as I take anything related to Manston with a pinch of salt!
on a serious note, much like with the boro and their recent lack of real transfer activity, MME does need to attract a more steady stream of new operators and destinations. I know very little can be taken for granted in the industry but obviously the likes of bmibaby, easyjet, ryanair announcing new routes fills you with more optimism than some unknown operator starting out!
I am sure Hugh Lang and his team are working flat out in a fiercely competetive marker but on the back of losing Ciampino and BRS in the recent past, despite being softened by the announcement of the weekly TFS and BRU, MME deserves more of the bigger boys like FlyBE or Wizz Air taking a calculated risk as has happened at DSA.
on a serious note, much like with the boro and their recent lack of real transfer activity, MME does need to attract a more steady stream of new operators and destinations. I know very little can be taken for granted in the industry but obviously the likes of bmibaby, easyjet, ryanair announcing new routes fills you with more optimism than some unknown operator starting out!
I am sure Hugh Lang and his team are working flat out in a fiercely competetive marker but on the back of losing Ciampino and BRS in the recent past, despite being softened by the announcement of the weekly TFS and BRU, MME deserves more of the bigger boys like FlyBE or Wizz Air taking a calculated risk as has happened at DSA.