DURHAM AIRPORT - 2
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Who will take over Baby routes
I think that the Peel factor will lead to a Ryanair base at Teeside.
I reckon they will do the spanish routes( nearest equivilent) at least. Would not be surprised if talks are on the agenda re this already. So in the longer term this may be a good thing, ie a more commited airline coming to the airport.
The opportunity is there for someone and I would expect a new operator in place by the time Baby pulls out.
Dont think the routes to Cork, Gatwick or Paris will be taken over in the short to medium term.
I reckon they will do the spanish routes( nearest equivilent) at least. Would not be surprised if talks are on the agenda re this already. So in the longer term this may be a good thing, ie a more commited airline coming to the airport.
The opportunity is there for someone and I would expect a new operator in place by the time Baby pulls out.
Dont think the routes to Cork, Gatwick or Paris will be taken over in the short to medium term.
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Onion, i'm not getting into a slagging match, nor am i poking fun. I apologise if any part of my post offended you, but i fail to see the part you describe as 'funny'. I can only imagine how the affected people are feeling right now and they have my best wishes.
Some facts as to why i dont think RYR will fill the void (at least with a based aircraft)
They dont fly to Palma.
MME to Alicante via REU or GRO:
Reus is approx 24M West of Barcelona, Gerona is 30M+ East of Barcelona.
"Barcelona to Alicante, you just follow the coastline. Make sure you have some money with you because the motorway is not free of charge. You should pay in between 40 to 50 Euros for the about 650 km. So it is a 6 to 7 hours trip by car." Nobody in their right mind will do that journey. Looking on the bright side they do fly to Murcia (30 miles South).
With regard to FlyBe i was thinking more of the core spanish routes, and weather they would have among the 12 ordered 195s a spare one to do MME?
My moneys on Globespan, heres hoping anyway!
Some facts as to why i dont think RYR will fill the void (at least with a based aircraft)
They dont fly to Palma.
MME to Alicante via REU or GRO:
Reus is approx 24M West of Barcelona, Gerona is 30M+ East of Barcelona.
"Barcelona to Alicante, you just follow the coastline. Make sure you have some money with you because the motorway is not free of charge. You should pay in between 40 to 50 Euros for the about 650 km. So it is a 6 to 7 hours trip by car." Nobody in their right mind will do that journey. Looking on the bright side they do fly to Murcia (30 miles South).
With regard to FlyBe i was thinking more of the core spanish routes, and weather they would have among the 12 ordered 195s a spare one to do MME?
My moneys on Globespan, heres hoping anyway!
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GSM seems to be the best bet, although, even they would be unlikely. Think the charters at MME are having a big sigh of relief however.
Jet2/EZY/FR will continue their expansion from NCL.
Jet2/EZY/FR will continue their expansion from NCL.
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This is pretty shocking news re WW. PMI, ALC and AGP are the international bread-and-butter of any smaller regional airport. I'd say it was pretty likely that another operator would step in but with NCL, LBA and DSA so close by, how likely is this?
It seems pretty foolish to squander a growing local passenger base like this, and also now means that bmi is scarcely represented in NE England. Wouldn't W rotations have been better, say in conjunction with CWL?
It seems pretty foolish to squander a growing local passenger base like this, and also now means that bmi is scarcely represented in NE England. Wouldn't W rotations have been better, say in conjunction with CWL?
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Jongeman
I totally agree with your views. It is now a very late stage indeed that MME are coming back to the table seeking a Loco service provider.
The main issue is that no matter how attractive individual routes appear, they are not able to provide consistent and high levels of service on 'w' rotations alone. Basing of aircraft for most Loco's is only likely to lead to them competing against themselves at airports that are not too distant. This is not a good business model for them for any number of reasons and I would be extremely surprised if Jet2 were tempted, who are more likely to look to seize the oportunity to develop routes out of it's current bases.
As for GSM well I wouldn't get too excited as to their potential contribution in the short term. Although they have put their 'toe in the water' with the winter TFS, they already have extensive expansion plans for growth elsewhere, and presumably there has to be a limit to the rate they can sensibly expand ie sourcing aircraft for a start.
For my money, Peel seems to have a good realtionship with Thomsonfly at DSA & maybe they may take a chance on providing a based aircraft to promote and consolidate their Spanish business.
Finally it's clearly going to get tougher out there as the oportunists look to poach those displaced passengers as can be seen from this extract off NCL's website :-
'Newcastle International has five low-cost airlines providing services to and from 30 different destinations across Europe, providing the region with an extensive choice of low-cost routes. These destinations include all of those currently operated by bmibaby from Durham Tees Valley, which are Cork, Paris, London Gatwick, Alicante, Malaga and Palma'.
Going for the jugular or what ?
I totally agree with your views. It is now a very late stage indeed that MME are coming back to the table seeking a Loco service provider.
The main issue is that no matter how attractive individual routes appear, they are not able to provide consistent and high levels of service on 'w' rotations alone. Basing of aircraft for most Loco's is only likely to lead to them competing against themselves at airports that are not too distant. This is not a good business model for them for any number of reasons and I would be extremely surprised if Jet2 were tempted, who are more likely to look to seize the oportunity to develop routes out of it's current bases.
As for GSM well I wouldn't get too excited as to their potential contribution in the short term. Although they have put their 'toe in the water' with the winter TFS, they already have extensive expansion plans for growth elsewhere, and presumably there has to be a limit to the rate they can sensibly expand ie sourcing aircraft for a start.
For my money, Peel seems to have a good realtionship with Thomsonfly at DSA & maybe they may take a chance on providing a based aircraft to promote and consolidate their Spanish business.
Finally it's clearly going to get tougher out there as the oportunists look to poach those displaced passengers as can be seen from this extract off NCL's website :-
'Newcastle International has five low-cost airlines providing services to and from 30 different destinations across Europe, providing the region with an extensive choice of low-cost routes. These destinations include all of those currently operated by bmibaby from Durham Tees Valley, which are Cork, Paris, London Gatwick, Alicante, Malaga and Palma'.
Going for the jugular or what ?
Last edited by skyman771; 14th Sep 2006 at 22:48.
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I expect Arann are not displeased at baby's move seeing that their flight from Leeds to Cork and Galway start up soon. The loss of Teesside Knock during the summer and now Teesside Cork, while not direct replacements, will undoubtedly help the new routes.
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Future Prospects
Whilst I would agree that it is rather late for the winter I would be amazed if the sunshine routes are not picked up next spring. At least there is 6 months to entice a replacement.
Thomsonfly would be my favorite.
Centre cities
Thomsonfly would be my favorite.
Centre cities
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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24 hours after the announcement I am still full of shock and anger. I am at the airport tomorrow morning, presumably the airport will have removed most of the bmibaby advertisements? If they haven't, I will personally remove them myself.
Rule out Ryanair as a replacement, after Rome they won't be launching any additional routes from here. My money is on Flyglobespan, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they announced additional routes before the end of the month!
Rule out Ryanair as a replacement, after Rome they won't be launching any additional routes from here. My money is on Flyglobespan, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they announced additional routes before the end of the month!
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Yes, Ryanair will certainly not be expanding at MME. We will only be keeping the Dublin service going. For the time being.
Flyglobespan will take over the most profitable / high volume routes from MME - namely Palma, Malaga, Alicante and Faro. Makes sense for them as they already have plans for TFS and maybe somewhere long-haul.
Flyglobespan will take over the most profitable / high volume routes from MME - namely Palma, Malaga, Alicante and Faro. Makes sense for them as they already have plans for TFS and maybe somewhere long-haul.
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Although Flyglobespan is the most likely to pick up the high volume routes (I would include Paris CDG in your list) they would most likely use the same 738 that they intend to use on the Tenerife route, and if bmibaby's reason for leaving MME is even slightly true, which I don't believe it is, how are GSM going to fill a 738???
It would be handy if they could acquire a couple of extra 736's from SAS.
It would be handy if they could acquire a couple of extra 736's from SAS.
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This whole WW thing is despicable, what the hell are they thinking? Anyway, although it is a setback, I'm sure MME will move on to even greater things from this. Lets face it, WW isn't the greatest lo-co in the market in terms of diversification is it?
I think by process of elimination, it will be either GSM or BE that will come onto the scene, of those, it'll probably be the former rather than the latter. TOM is unlikely, they don't tend to have two large bases next to each other - CWL, EMA/CVT, LTN are preferred over their traditional competitors BRS, BHX and STN. Although TOM are based at all 7, it is the first four where they have their 'mixed charter/scheduled' services. Given NCL doesn't seem to be able to sustain EZY, that one is a definate non-starter from MME. LS probably would be better suited in developing the bases they have already, BFS and NCL seem to be in line for significant expansion. Nevertheless, Jet2 might like to wrap up the northern market by taking on MME? FR, maybe, as they seem to have lost interest in NCL as well, but i'm not sure their current route structure would fit in with what MME needs, i.e. - no ALC, AGP, PMI and I can't imagine FR being keen on a domestic LGW service.
A good call could be ZB, a bit more upmarket than the lo-cos, but probably the North Yorkshire area is a bit more upmarket than the T&W area, I wouldn't be surprised to see ZB doing ALC, BCN, AGP and PMI.
BE at the moment don't have (enough) suitable a/c to operate the longer sectors, which returns us to GSM. If they get hold of a couple more B736s, I would think this would be a no-brainer.
I know in the short term it may not seem like it, but the real loser out of all of this will be WW. I'm sure when prospective airlines see the terminal plans or the finished product, they'll be delighted to service the airport. Here's hoping there will not be too many, if any employment casualties. Good luck all concerned.
I think by process of elimination, it will be either GSM or BE that will come onto the scene, of those, it'll probably be the former rather than the latter. TOM is unlikely, they don't tend to have two large bases next to each other - CWL, EMA/CVT, LTN are preferred over their traditional competitors BRS, BHX and STN. Although TOM are based at all 7, it is the first four where they have their 'mixed charter/scheduled' services. Given NCL doesn't seem to be able to sustain EZY, that one is a definate non-starter from MME. LS probably would be better suited in developing the bases they have already, BFS and NCL seem to be in line for significant expansion. Nevertheless, Jet2 might like to wrap up the northern market by taking on MME? FR, maybe, as they seem to have lost interest in NCL as well, but i'm not sure their current route structure would fit in with what MME needs, i.e. - no ALC, AGP, PMI and I can't imagine FR being keen on a domestic LGW service.
A good call could be ZB, a bit more upmarket than the lo-cos, but probably the North Yorkshire area is a bit more upmarket than the T&W area, I wouldn't be surprised to see ZB doing ALC, BCN, AGP and PMI.
BE at the moment don't have (enough) suitable a/c to operate the longer sectors, which returns us to GSM. If they get hold of a couple more B736s, I would think this would be a no-brainer.
I know in the short term it may not seem like it, but the real loser out of all of this will be WW. I'm sure when prospective airlines see the terminal plans or the finished product, they'll be delighted to service the airport. Here's hoping there will not be too many, if any employment casualties. Good luck all concerned.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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I'm genuinely surprised that the bmi group didn't have more faith in MME, considering that it was British Midland who operated the airport's first flight under British Midland to London, there has always been a good relationship between the airport & the airline. However, bmibaby has been heavily underfunded, which has not allowed them to keep up with the rapid expansion at other northern airports by rival low-cost airlines. Simply, the chopping of routes & schedules to try to keep up with the competition meant there was little confidence by consumers in the airline. I think the bmi brand will be tarnished by this move, and feel very sad for the staff who will be laid off or relocated as a result of the announcement, as well as those at aviance who will be affected.
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Are DTVA entirely blameless here (new frontage started January and meant to be finished for the summer season, road signs still directing you to Teesside Airport, new Belfast service floated in the press in April and still no announcement). What's happening with the planning approval for the major re-development?
Can't help thinking that Peel see the site more for it's real estate value than its aeronautical.
Can't help thinking that Peel see the site more for it's real estate value than its aeronautical.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Well today it has been revealed that bmibaby went against the advice that the airport gave them numerous times (apparently) which they obviously are allowed to do as it is their business. However, some of this advice allegedly included the airport telling them to do 2x daily to LGW, and also 2x daily BFS with smaller aircraft, not a 1x daily with a 733!
Apparently the airport are already in talks with other airlines to fill the gaps, so what becomes of that we will have to wait and see! I do think that the LGW + CDG routes are perhaps perfect for an operator like Flybe, and the spanish routes I believe are more suited to Jet2 or Flyglobespan.
mmeteesside
Apparently the airport are already in talks with other airlines to fill the gaps, so what becomes of that we will have to wait and see! I do think that the LGW + CDG routes are perhaps perfect for an operator like Flybe, and the spanish routes I believe are more suited to Jet2 or Flyglobespan.
mmeteesside
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well soem wise words said already which i echo...24hrs later and im still seething with the arrogance of WW. Ok Ok its business and they have to make money so no sentimentality re:long standing association with DTV but they have well and truely left MME up 
creek without a paddle!never have i heard of an airline simply uping sticks completely from a base in such a way!
I have it on good authority that, alongside MME's agreement that they will not let any other jet operator on a MME-London route, WW were given next to peanuts landing charges and also the guarantee that no other LOCO would be allowed to base at the airport. Their thanks?treat DTV and the flying public of the Tees Valley with contempt!
Im booked on an AGP in October and part of me wants to boycott and not fly with them but obviously they would only win finacially if i was to not go.
Withr regards to future plans, AGP PMI and ALC will no doubt be picked up by someone. My guess? TOM surely must be looking seriously at DTV given that they are a known brand follwing the last two summer seasons flying programme as well as the fact that DSA doesnt really cross over with MME' catchment area which is why I feel LS would not be interested given they have NCL and LBA bases already.
I guess time will tell but as another poster says...overnight we've slipped down the league alongside HUY and NWI just when we were on the up-the phrase 'putting your eggs in one basket' springs to mind!
creek without a paddle!never have i heard of an airline simply uping sticks completely from a base in such a way!I have it on good authority that, alongside MME's agreement that they will not let any other jet operator on a MME-London route, WW were given next to peanuts landing charges and also the guarantee that no other LOCO would be allowed to base at the airport. Their thanks?treat DTV and the flying public of the Tees Valley with contempt!
Im booked on an AGP in October and part of me wants to boycott and not fly with them but obviously they would only win finacially if i was to not go.
Withr regards to future plans, AGP PMI and ALC will no doubt be picked up by someone. My guess? TOM surely must be looking seriously at DTV given that they are a known brand follwing the last two summer seasons flying programme as well as the fact that DSA doesnt really cross over with MME' catchment area which is why I feel LS would not be interested given they have NCL and LBA bases already.
I guess time will tell but as another poster says...overnight we've slipped down the league alongside HUY and NWI just when we were on the up-the phrase 'putting your eggs in one basket' springs to mind!
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To be honest I'm not suprised at this move, it probably has something to do with the whole name change farce. The name changeover from a PR point of view has been implimented in the worst way possible. A substantial amount of travel agents and tour ops are still selling flights and holidays from 'Teesside' airport and the other lot 'DTV' airport. Airport signs are wrong and up until a few weeks ago some advertising material was still showing the airport as Teesside. It's just confusing the punters - I bet the average pax doesn't know what the airport is called anymore. It's been a mess, they should have just kept the name the same to avoid all this confusion and trouble.
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Airport name
I must admit that an airport named after the nearest major city, in my opinion, is better than an area.
Isnt that why they changed East Midlands to Nottingham East midlands.
Ask my misses where Munich is and its no problem. On the other hand call it Bavarian International and that is a different story.
Centre cities
Isnt that why they changed East Midlands to Nottingham East midlands.
Ask my misses where Munich is and its no problem. On the other hand call it Bavarian International and that is a different story.
Centre cities
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I think that the Peel factor will lead to a Ryanair base at Teeside.
I reckon they will do the spanish routes( nearest equivilent) at least. Would not be surprised if talks are on the agenda re this already. So in the longer term this may be a good thing, ie a more commited airline coming to the airport.
The opportunity is there for someone and I would expect a new operator in place by the time Baby pulls out.
Dont think the routes to Cork, Gatwick or Paris will be taken over in the short to medium term.
I reckon they will do the spanish routes( nearest equivilent) at least. Would not be surprised if talks are on the agenda re this already. So in the longer term this may be a good thing, ie a more commited airline coming to the airport.
The opportunity is there for someone and I would expect a new operator in place by the time Baby pulls out.
Dont think the routes to Cork, Gatwick or Paris will be taken over in the short to medium term.
James
Fit like min?
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Doubt it'll be MON, didn't Tim Jeans say that they were cutting back to their main core airports (from memory LGW, LTN, BHX, MAN). This was why they withdrew from BLK. Only "non-core" scheduled route will be AGP-ABZ, & even that may be in doubt if GSM muscle in.
Back to DTV. I still say Jet2 would be the main airline to fill the void left by Baby. GSM could also help, noting that they are to fly TFS-MME this winter.
Back to DTV. I still say Jet2 would be the main airline to fill the void left by Baby. GSM could also help, noting that they are to fly TFS-MME this winter.