UKIA

[Lite]

Surely the 767-200 is an unsuitable aircraft for the airline anyway? The aircraft are ex-United, so were designed for the UK domestic market rather than longhaul operations, meaning most destinations in Asia are going to necessitate a stop somewhere in the Middle East. Not sure about flights to the USA and Canada, which have been rumoured to be future destinations. Any idea if the 757 would have been better, especially given loads? Maybe even an A300?

[MHG]

I would also expect them looking for different a/c now (having in mind the problems that MAXJET had with the 762 - and that contributed to them going belly-up ...)

[Captain Caveman]

I really do not know how a new start up can suddenly just decide to revamp and leave a B762 on the ground with the associated lease / maint costs, crew costs (for those still on the books) and head office overhead with no income. I presume they are paying for the 2nd unit also at the mo which is in the hangar in the Middle East ?

For a couple of months I would put that at 250,000 - 500k at least ? All seems a little strange to me? or a hell of a lot of double discount sofa's they must be selling in Jan.............

[adamkhan]

I have an important question..Does anyone know how many flights were actually cancelled from the time they started to the time they decided to take a break?......Also does anyone know if there are any underwriters that are providing airline failure insurance for UKIA! honest im not joking you never know some DRAGON may want to invest any flights may start up again!. + any figures on load etc... ***Why is there nothing on any newspaper about this suspension and does anyone know if pottential pax got their money back and what about the poor people stranded i think these issues are very important for the affected*** Thanx everyone

[VS-LHRCSA]

I would say that the reason they haven't made the papers is due to the fact that they weren't the most visible airline in the first place.

Your average joe in the street won't know who they are. The market they were set up to serve barely does.

As it is now, I'm not sure this would be an operation that investors would be interested in. Asset-wise, they have two (is it?) reactivated desert airframes that were not designed for long-haul. They would have been sitting around for years waiting for a D check. Apart from Corsair, I can't think of any airline that has successfully reactivated an aircraft from long term storage - without reliability issues. I'm thinking of Air Atlanta here.

The aircraft interiors have not been touched and have an onboard configuration that has been twice superseded. With a refit, they could possibly be useful for charters but with only one pair of overwing exits and the necessary floor reinforcements, it would be doubtful that enough seats could be added to actually make money.

The actual concept and market is pretty sound and with the right kind of aircraft, has the potential to do well. I'm thinking of a high-ish density 767 or A330 here. I can't see too much premium traffic being generated. Perhaps they should look at what First Choice and Thomas Cook are doing.

[SAM-EMA]

This is what UKIA advice passengers (from their website):

Passengers claiming refunds are requested to fill the Refunds Form and submit it to the nearest UKIA Travel Agent or UKIA's Head Office.

SAM-EMA

[jurgenthegerman]

Adamkhan

Adamkhan, lots of questions, if you want to know the answers why not contact them direct ! Their contact details are on their website.

[EastMids]

I'm not sure many folks really have a clue what they're talking about here. Sure the a/c has had MX issues, but nothing that has cancelled a flight - OK, one op was 24 hours late, but that could happen to any airline from time to time with the AOG spares needed a few hours away, and I believe part of that delay was down to crew hours in that by the time the a/c was servicable the crew could not operate. IIRC one round trip was cancelled when they had the financial issues a few weeks ago, and one op was cancelled due low loads the following week, but isn't that about all? The 762 UKIA have been using seems to be capable of managing EMA-SHJ-ISB quite well, and the relaxed schedule they've run so far has plenty of down time at EMA for defect rectification (which would have been more of a concern had the a/c been operating 24/7). At the prices they're charging, is interior refurbishment or the latest IFE really an issue? And, in terms of passenger numbers, things seem to have been on the up - some loads have been low but the launch came at fairly short notice, the cancelled Christmas day flight was booked full as was the return, and the next few flights had they been operated were full too. Where's the failed business model in all of that?

There are some specific reasons why UKIA are not operating at present, but they aren't related to the business model. Whether UKIA can resolve their issues and resume ops after a break of several weeks remains to be seen, but as long as they treat their staff fairly and are responding to a market demand (which increasingly seems to be the case) then I have no axe to grind with them.

[adamkhan]

woow...Eastmids just slow down take a deep breath, i have no axe to grind with them either..(just pointing out the facts) you sound like you are from UKIA!! maybe you are@ however I dont know of an airline that just suspends its services in the middle of peak season, cax a couple of tuesday flights as very low load and tells its customers to come back on friday, has no stopover on itinerary or eticket, no one knows how long they going to be stranded in Sharjah and some dont even know they going via sharjah- averge 8 hours and about 17hours till they reach islamabad, late departing late arriving most if not all flights, they might aswell go round western hemisphere. AS far as im concerened most of the comments on this forum are talking about operational issues and poor management i would say that is related to business model somewhat wouldnt YOU? The question now is not what they are going to do its what have they done...Lol no disrespect to anyone but I think this is a total disaster. I think it could be the end but hey what do i know. And by th e way EastMids most people on this forum do know what they talking about most is from research stats and facts.

[VS-LHRCSA]

Yeah, I have no axe to grind either. I've always hoped they would do well. My point is, the aircraft - as it is now - is not suitable for making money. It may be able to do the route, I didn't say it couldn't but frankly no airline should ever rely on a "relaxed schedule" to justify it's aircraft choice. An aircraft needs to fly to make money.

You said yourself, "at the prices they are charging..." which I'll agree, the fares are low. From a revenue management point of view, you simply cannot have a low density, thirsty aircraft AND low yields. It is purely unsustainable.

That said, I really do hope it works out for them.

[richterscale10]

Well - looks like they are not making enough money - even to pay their staff this December !!

[copper1]

My point of view is this, when you talk of management don't you mean the directors, these people have no experience of running and airline, they specialise in furniture. The people who they employed to run the airline, well respected within the airline industry, have not been listened to and have been suspended because they maintained the legal requirements and stuck up for their crew.

[Little Blue]

Well, I know of one crew member that's been paid !!! Now, what about the rest?!!! Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[richterscale10]

What - on time !!!!!!!?????

[EastMids]

Eastmids just slow down take a deep breath, i have no axe to grind with them either..(just pointing out the facts) you sound like you are from UKIA!!

OK, sorry! And no I'm not from UKIA. But the maintenance state of the aeroplane, the suitability of the aeroplane to operate the route, the interior of the aeroplane, the fares, the loads... People are looking for reasons why UKIA won't (didn't?) make it. My point is not that they have a perfect business model, but that these aren't the reason why the airline isn't operating right now.

[mike21]

UKIA has suspended its flights and then the Bhutto issue I think its best if UKIA gets their house in order before they re-start operations.
As some of the people they employed were sacked and booted out of their previous jobs (who would think they would be given Jobs again!). From my experience the market they wish to serve is huge and the service is good, they only need to re-structure their house and get moving.

Its good the Directors are not from Aviation background because they will run it like a Business and not be emotionally involved.

Hey UKIA good luck, we all need jobs and support Airlines that are providing those jobs...... in this ever so hard industry.

I wish UKIA change the a/c as well now they have the time to do so!

[Fried_Chicken]

I wish UKIA change the a/c as well now they have the time to do so!

The problem is, what else can they get at relatively short notice to replace the B762's with?

A lot of the A300/A310's are being bought for conversion to freighters so probably few decent (pax) airframes on the market for sale/lease
There aren't too many used A330's on the market & the cost of buying new is probably out of the question.

As for Boeing 757's, there are a few in store around the world although I don't think many of these are ER variants & again, one of the large US freight movers are trying to get their hands on as many 752's as they can for conversion to freighters to replace the older 727's.

As for B763 & B772, probably the same issues as with the A330.

Dc10 - too old & unreliable whilst the MD11 is another aircraft being sourced for conversion to freighers.

I'm sure Ilyushin will do them a nice deal on a couple of IL96's with western engines & avionics

FC

[richterscale10]

Wow Mike21 - you do have such an intimate knowledge of the back of house - maybe you live there!!
'Tis true - we do all need jobs - but only with viable outfits that offer some security and yes I agree that the market is out there. Just needs the right 'nonce' to tap it - eh?

[alangirvan]

Would the MaxJet 767-200ERs offer any better reliability? They are almost as old as the UKIA planes, but they would cut out the tech stop at SHJ.


Perhaps this market is not for a UK based carrier. A mini-Emirates based at Sharjah, using smaller wide bodies, flying to EMA, Leeds, Doncaster and hubbing at SHJ with flights to several cities in India/Pakistan will always do better than an airline flying from one UK port to one Pakistan city.

[boredcounter]

Mike21

'Its good the Directors are not from Aviation background because they will run it like a Business and not be emotionally involved.'

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Big boys toys springs to mind. Were the founders somewhat p'd off with the PIA situation?

' I wish UKIA change the a/c as well now they have the time to do so!'

And waste even more money lodging a deposit to lease a better aircraft for the route structure?


IF YOU WISH TO MAKE A SMALL FORTUNE IN AVIATION, FIRST TAKE A LARGE FORTUNE!


UKIA, are doomed to fail, most UK aviation people, I believe have been replaced by 'locals'.

Bored