Carlisle
You do get excited don't you PF? With respect (and I actually mean that) I think you're going rather over the top now and your responses have gone some way beyond reasoned debate so I won't bother to counter your tirade.
Thanks for your support HZ123. As always it's much appreciated.
As I say, let's see what really happens shall we now we've all had our say?
Thanks for your support HZ123. As always it's much appreciated.
As I say, let's see what really happens shall we now we've all had our say?
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This thread is supposed to be concentrating on CAX but 'you know who' has turned it around to concentrate on SEN, 2 AMS rotations per day out of SEN but only 1 per day out of CAX and this is, or was, supposed to be an airline dedicated to offering the catchment area of CAX services from their local airport!
Here's a schedule:
0700 CAX AMS CAX 1100
1215 CAX AMS CAX 1615
1730 CAX AMS CAX 2130
And operate them on a codeshare agreement with a certain Dutch operator!
Here's a schedule:
0700 CAX AMS CAX 1100
1215 CAX AMS CAX 1615
1730 CAX AMS CAX 2130
And operate them on a codeshare agreement with a certain Dutch operator!
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PF
KLM are the only regional operator from UK regional airports who have a codeshare agreement with anyone in AMS, i.e themselves and KLM are not going to operate from CAX when the local catchment area is more than adequately served from Newcatle.
Even if another operator was persauded to operate to AMS from CAX, they wouldn't get any interline agreement and KLM would destroy them by lowering fares - they've done it with Flybe and a few others.
By the way, Easyjet, Ryanair et al, require a runway with a LDA, ASDA, TORA of at least 1950m - which is why you'll never see them in CAX.
KLM are the only regional operator from UK regional airports who have a codeshare agreement with anyone in AMS, i.e themselves and KLM are not going to operate from CAX when the local catchment area is more than adequately served from Newcatle.
Even if another operator was persauded to operate to AMS from CAX, they wouldn't get any interline agreement and KLM would destroy them by lowering fares - they've done it with Flybe and a few others.
By the way, Easyjet, Ryanair et al, require a runway with a LDA, ASDA, TORA of at least 1950m - which is why you'll never see them in CAX.
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SWBKCB,
KLM operate to/from LPL?
goatface,
One doesn't establish these things until one enquires! Air UK had a codeshare with KLM long before they became 100% owned by KLM, Northwest and, I think, United have codeshares with KLM, Lithuanian, Maersk, Malev, Ukraine Intl etc. all have codeshares with them.
The danger might be that were a CAX operator been seen to be treading on the toes of such an operator then that operator might make life difficult for them, such as a UK operator (I've already mentioned in this post) did to a LBA based G1 & SD360 operator that put their noses out of joint back in the 80's, but by suggesting a codeshare is making a statement that 'we' want to work with you and not in opposition to you.
If a pax wants to travel, long distance, from NCL then they have a networks choice, aside from KLM, of the national carriers of France, Belgium, UAE, Germany, Scandinavia, the worlds favourite (not in my book they ain't) airline but if a CAX based operator went in to a codeshare solely with one operator then, long distance, that one operator would have sole monopoly of CAX to increase revenues, not on the UK to AMS or wherever route, but on the connecting routes out of their hub whether that hub be AMS, FRA, CPH, BRU, CDG or wherever.
I don't believe, on price, a CAX operator could compete, there's only so many pax whose ultimate destination is one of those close continent airports already mentioned, without such a codeshare agreement!
KLM operate to/from LPL?
goatface,
One doesn't establish these things until one enquires! Air UK had a codeshare with KLM long before they became 100% owned by KLM, Northwest and, I think, United have codeshares with KLM, Lithuanian, Maersk, Malev, Ukraine Intl etc. all have codeshares with them.
The danger might be that were a CAX operator been seen to be treading on the toes of such an operator then that operator might make life difficult for them, such as a UK operator (I've already mentioned in this post) did to a LBA based G1 & SD360 operator that put their noses out of joint back in the 80's, but by suggesting a codeshare is making a statement that 'we' want to work with you and not in opposition to you.
If a pax wants to travel, long distance, from NCL then they have a networks choice, aside from KLM, of the national carriers of France, Belgium, UAE, Germany, Scandinavia, the worlds favourite (not in my book they ain't) airline but if a CAX based operator went in to a codeshare solely with one operator then, long distance, that one operator would have sole monopoly of CAX to increase revenues, not on the UK to AMS or wherever route, but on the connecting routes out of their hub whether that hub be AMS, FRA, CPH, BRU, CDG or wherever.
I don't believe, on price, a CAX operator could compete, there's only so many pax whose ultimate destination is one of those close continent airports already mentioned, without such a codeshare agreement!
PF, yep - do keep up (and while I'm being picky, they don't operate those larger Embraer things into NCL either - it's the Fokker things as well as B737's)
Media Centre*|*Press Releases*|*KLM returns to Liverpool after 70 years and opens up the World to Liverpool Passengers
Media Centre*|*Press Releases*|*KLM returns to Liverpool after 70 years and opens up the World to Liverpool Passengers
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SWBKCB,
Accepted that I didn't keep up with things regarding LPL, my local and convenient airport being BHX, but you might keep up with things also that those Fokker things, as much as I love travelling by them, in KLM's eyes, are fokked beyond their economically viable lives and are being phased out in favour of some Brazilian built thingies
Accepted that I didn't keep up with things regarding LPL, my local and convenient airport being BHX, but you might keep up with things also that those Fokker things, as much as I love travelling by them, in KLM's eyes, are fokked beyond their economically viable lives and are being phased out in favour of some Brazilian built thingies
Typically misleading headline, but bit of an update from the new airport director
News & Star | News | Business | Passenger flights from Carlisle Airport to Paris by 2011
News & Star | News | Business | Passenger flights from Carlisle Airport to Paris by 2011
For who? Still think Stobarts are after a new site for their HQ, and anything they make out of the airport side will be a bonus.
Any service to Southend will be sold as London, and that's first on the list of suggested destinations.
Any service to Southend will be sold as London, and that's first on the list of suggested destinations.
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Missing The Plot
All the talk of small domestic routes from CAX is hiding the fact that a developed airport in Cumbria could attract inbound traffic from Eastern Europe, and Germany in a tourist capacity for the lake district..... we fly for holidays to the likes of JSI/JTR/KGS, these airports have no local population using them and seem to survive! Does anybody else think that Stobarts and Cumbria County Council have been a little bit blinkered in planning for the future of the site?
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I believe that the proposed development will work. It is not over ambitious and I believe will deliver an airport capable of expansion in meaningful terms of pax & cargo figures, albeit initially supported by the co located cargo transport hub facility. It may take some time and clever management to balance the bottom lines of the companies involved but the ES team in place have the expertise to succeed. The new Airport Director AJ is an exceptional individual with the experience and skills to make real development of the airport happen given the support of the ES Group.
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The problem with any flights to London/Southend is that it will be competing with the train, which is so damn quick now (average time around 3 hrs 20 mins or so), would there really be much time saving, if any, by flying into SEN and catching a train from there into London?
Don't forget there is still a High Court judgement pending over the Judicial Review application appeal by a local farmer. The appeal was held at the start of this month and the judgement reserved to a later date.
A judgement in his favour could spoil all their plans as I'm sure they won't modernise the airport itself unless they can build the new HQ there.
A judgement in his favour could spoil all their plans as I'm sure they won't modernise the airport itself unless they can build the new HQ there.
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Looks like the farmer's case is thrown out (not before time):
Farmer loses Carlisle Airport fight : Carlisle Airport News Stories
Farmer loses Carlisle Airport fight : Carlisle Airport News Stories
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think he might have had a case , from what I've seen at the airport . looks more like a death by a 1000 cuts for the place . things surely haven't improved as yet in any direction , and we cant blame mr gordon brown for holding up all the development . you will know stobarts intent for the airport when you see how thick they make the runway . if its just a cosmetic slither of tar hiding the multitude of sins of the old one , i think you can safely say the place would be doomed . they have to have improved the runway before they can start on the warehouse . part of the planing consent . if a good thick runway goes down with all good drains etc you will be able to assume that the airport plans to remain open . failing that it my well be Worth putting a good runway in to fool people as the financial rewards when the ware house is up far outweigh the cost of the runway . i do want stobart to keep his business in cumbria and would just like some honest clarification on the matter . 
wildbillkelso
As far as I'm aware, Mr Brown is still fighting on and has applied to have his case heard by the Court of Appeal. If that is so, it's hardly surprising nothing had yet happened on the ground is it? No owner is going to go ahead and carry out the Section 106 Agreement improvements when hanging over his head is the possibility, however remote, that the whole planning consent could be nullified by the Courts.
The delay in anything tangible happening is entirely down to Mr Brown's actions and not to any delaying tactics on the part of Stobarts.
I hope this meets your demand for "some honest clarification on the matter".
As far as I'm aware, Mr Brown is still fighting on and has applied to have his case heard by the Court of Appeal. If that is so, it's hardly surprising nothing had yet happened on the ground is it? No owner is going to go ahead and carry out the Section 106 Agreement improvements when hanging over his head is the possibility, however remote, that the whole planning consent could be nullified by the Courts.
The delay in anything tangible happening is entirely down to Mr Brown's actions and not to any delaying tactics on the part of Stobarts.
I hope this meets your demand for "some honest clarification on the matter".