Carlisle
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I would have thought there would be good demand for travel to Carlisle from the London Southend area, I know many friends and family who would love to explore the greater lake district area but are put off by the approx 6 hour drive and cost of fuel (a car hire facility would be needed at Carlisle would be required)
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A lot of the controvosy seems to be being generated by consultants, a lot of the initial objections around noise came after a "consultant" started spreading scare stories about the size of aircraft that would use the airport, a patent bit of misdirection as the runway was never going to be long enough to handle them.
It is fair to say that passenger services have been tried and failed before and the competition from rail is huge, as is the competition from a number of larger airports all within 2 hours of Carlisle (OK slightly longer for folk out on the West Coast).
Whilst I do wish them success, I think Aer Arran only has through ticketing with Aer Lingus, so the Dublin connection makes sense, any other routes for connections could be risky.
Interestingly I was in the area today and Kirkbride (an unlicensed field) seemed busier than Carlisle!
It is fair to say that passenger services have been tried and failed before and the competition from rail is huge, as is the competition from a number of larger airports all within 2 hours of Carlisle (OK slightly longer for folk out on the West Coast).
Whilst I do wish them success, I think Aer Arran only has through ticketing with Aer Lingus, so the Dublin connection makes sense, any other routes for connections could be risky.
Interestingly I was in the area today and Kirkbride (an unlicensed field) seemed busier than Carlisle!
Last edited by west lakes; 13th Jun 2012 at 20:20.
Two different sets of 'consultants' - the first numpty was actually a disgruntled former Stobart's discard, the latest report is from a firm advising the Council.
For what it's worth, I agree with the recent report - Stobart's are using the airport to get permission for a road haulage centre and their aviation plans look optimistic, especially with no ILS, etc.
For what it's worth, I agree with the recent report - Stobart's are using the airport to get permission for a road haulage centre and their aviation plans look optimistic, especially with no ILS, etc.
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I don't know why they are continuing to persue this as it has taken so long and so much £s already its just a standing joke now. Stobarts should just sell up and cut there losses.
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These are interesting though and add to the story somewhat.
January | 2012 | Solway Aviation Museum
News & Star | News | Stobart Group's pledge to aviation museum at Carlisle Airport.
Though not publicised Carlisle does pay host to a number of military flights and activities, it is also used by SAR helicopters for fuel.
January | 2012 | Solway Aviation Museum
News & Star | News | Stobart Group's pledge to aviation museum at Carlisle Airport.
Though not publicised Carlisle does pay host to a number of military flights and activities, it is also used by SAR helicopters for fuel.
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vulcanised
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Interesting that, from that report, no consideration appears to have been given to pax wishing to travel into Carlisle.
Is it that unnatractive?
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Interesting that, from that report, no consideration appears to have been given to pax wishing to travel into Carlisle.
Is it that unnatractive?
Plus it has the road system and standard of maintenance thereof which would make a third world countries look good..
The main police station is still housed in a shop in the town centre after the floods several years ago..
They had a beautiful old town centre of lanes they procrastinated over rebuilding for so long it partially fell down itself, resulting in the rest getting demolished..
They built a swimming pool a couple of feet short of a competition size meaning it could never hold proper competitions..
They built a multi function leisure centre, that is smaller ( and just about useless for any major events ) than some of the outskirts areas of other Cities have..
Disaster of a bridge to the Castle
The Council has never spent money where it needs to and when they do spend it the make an utter cock up of it... They are so narrow minded they cannot see the benefits the airport would bring to the region, I always felt sorry for the past owners of the Airport, most have wanted to improve it, but working with the Council one always felt they would do better entering a one legged ass kicking competition..
Don't get me wrong, the City has some beautiful buildings, Old courts, Cathedral, Castle etc, the rest is underdeveloped and downright shoddy..
Ohh and I come from Carlisle.
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Nutloose - when were you last in Carlisle? The police have a new station at Durranhill (...and they had to be accommodated temporarily in the city centre because the floods ruined the original station). Plus the fire brigade now has two new stations. A new bypass has now opened providing better access from West Cumbria to the M6 (without the need to travel through the city centre). Also the bypass shortens the time people from the west of the city will need to get to the airport as it ends at the Kingstown junction which means it is just then a 10 min drive along the A69 to reach the airport.
Also the Sands Centre does an ok job at attracting acts now (years ago it seemed to have been built to solely house Daniel O'Donnell concerts but the growing student population has started to attract many comedians, Lee Evans, Sarah Millican, etc.). Plus the town centre is a lot better than many I've seen.
I was born in Cumbria, grew up in Carlisle and still go back frequently. I really want to see the airport developed from something more than it is just now.
I must admit I struggle to believe a route with that frequency to SEN will work because of the frequency and journey time of the train to London. A link to a major hub is needed for both incoming and outgoing passengers. There are a lot of SMEs based at the old 14MU which is now a large industrial estate (which is also on the bypass) and I know of some companies there that are dealing with businesses overseas and could do with a link to a hub. Once daily on a prop would probably be sufficient. The council would probably need to step in to assist with marketing initially though as past attempts at linking London have often suffered from a lack of publicity.
Also the Sands Centre does an ok job at attracting acts now (years ago it seemed to have been built to solely house Daniel O'Donnell concerts but the growing student population has started to attract many comedians, Lee Evans, Sarah Millican, etc.). Plus the town centre is a lot better than many I've seen.
I was born in Cumbria, grew up in Carlisle and still go back frequently. I really want to see the airport developed from something more than it is just now.
I must admit I struggle to believe a route with that frequency to SEN will work because of the frequency and journey time of the train to London. A link to a major hub is needed for both incoming and outgoing passengers. There are a lot of SMEs based at the old 14MU which is now a large industrial estate (which is also on the bypass) and I know of some companies there that are dealing with businesses overseas and could do with a link to a hub. Once daily on a prop would probably be sufficient. The council would probably need to step in to assist with marketing initially though as past attempts at linking London have often suffered from a lack of publicity.
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I heard recently that the "modern" fire tenders have been relocated, that there is little fire cover so that public transport flights can probably no longer be handled!
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Carlisle Airport could serve not only Cumbria and The Lake District, but also Dumfries and Galloway. Although North West England no longer has a regional development agency, Scotland certainly does, and it would be interesting to know whether supporting regional development in South West Scotland could extend to promoting inward investment and businesses using Carlisle Airport as a gateway to D&G.
Instead of a link to the South East of England, I would have thought that a link to Manchester Airport would provide better transit options.
Instead of a link to the South East of England, I would have thought that a link to Manchester Airport would provide better transit options.
Reality Check
sorry to invade your forum from DTV...however we are all in the same boat(in my opinion) If DTV with a pop.of 3 million(inc area) can not succeed there is no chance that Carlisle with circa 200K pop.can?
The dice is weighted against us.We have NCL and Leeds doing well..you have unfortunately not a lot.Plenty of connections from Newcastle,Manchester and Scotland.
I fear the days of the smaller airports are numbered.
Take what you can..have the logistics Stobbarts propose with the jobs and be thankful! Probably more jobs anyway in the long run?
hope its not too controversial...
The dice is weighted against us.We have NCL and Leeds doing well..you have unfortunately not a lot.Plenty of connections from Newcastle,Manchester and Scotland.
I fear the days of the smaller airports are numbered.
Take what you can..have the logistics Stobbarts propose with the jobs and be thankful! Probably more jobs anyway in the long run?
hope its not too controversial...
The chance that CAX has got is that Stobart's want to build a road haulage depot on the site, but they will only get planning permission from the LA as part of a scheme to develop the airport (and that is looking dodgy).
At DTVA, there is already an operational airport and there is plenty of scope for development. I'm sure Peel would love to have a successful airport there as it will make their life easier with the LA's, but unfortunately it's losing too much money while the property development market is tanking.
At DTVA, there is already an operational airport and there is plenty of scope for development. I'm sure Peel would love to have a successful airport there as it will make their life easier with the LA's, but unfortunately it's losing too much money while the property development market is tanking.
comparisons
SWCB yes but look at sheffield coventry plymouth(?) et all.. much bigger potential than carlisle..what happened there?
DTV is an operational airport but i feel days are numbered there as well with the infrastructure wrecked.Massive investment needed over and above..
at least carlisle does have a chance with some jobs and that is better than non today? the area is struggling big time.100 jobs(guess) would be better than a very small struggling regional airport (75 jobs guess) which probably would need some investment from the local authorities/
DTV is an operational airport but i feel days are numbered there as well with the infrastructure wrecked.Massive investment needed over and above..
at least carlisle does have a chance with some jobs and that is better than non today? the area is struggling big time.100 jobs(guess) would be better than a very small struggling regional airport (75 jobs guess) which probably would need some investment from the local authorities/
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depends what you call a success. I cannot imagine Carlisle ever expects to be as big as DTV , however there is scope for it to be a niche local regional airport plus cargo, all of which could be profitable. Cant see a Scottish regional development fund getting involved however....
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Never
Never say never as that was the view of SEN - it would never happen ! Well it has.
It is not so much the start as the prospects, it took LCY 20 years to become profitable and in that time who knows how much has been written off.
The issue is the routes and a/c to operate them profitably. Most regional types of aircraft are to small to make adequate return unless enjoying government support within the EU.
It is not so much the start as the prospects, it took LCY 20 years to become profitable and in that time who knows how much has been written off.
The issue is the routes and a/c to operate them profitably. Most regional types of aircraft are to small to make adequate return unless enjoying government support within the EU.
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Yes, all those years of praying for a single scheduled service to Amsterdam or Paris from SEN to add to the solitary summer Saturday schedule to Jersey....and now there are 66,000 passengers flying from SEN in May alone. Amazing, and I still have to pinch myself to believe it is happening, especially in such grim times as these.
But compared to Carlisle SEN does have the advantage of London on its doorstep (or 50 minutes away by train).........
But compared to Carlisle SEN does have the advantage of London on its doorstep (or 50 minutes away by train).........