BMI
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Bet they can't wait to get rid of the A321s.
These are only regulars I think on LHR - BHD but that route should be investigated for State Aid.
Why?
Because HUGE amounts of the C Class passengers and LOTS of the Y passengers on that route are civil servants going on useless diversity and social inclusion meetings in London, whose flights are funded by taxpayers.
These are only regulars I think on LHR - BHD but that route should be investigated for State Aid.
Why?
Because HUGE amounts of the C Class passengers and LOTS of the Y passengers on that route are civil servants going on useless diversity and social inclusion meetings in London, whose flights are funded by taxpayers.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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VHF,
Indeed you are correct, most bmi flights in (and out) of BHD these days are A321s (If they are taking off from 22, I can see & hear them from the office).
I can understand bmi wanting rid of them, as the 321s are probably some of the oldest aircraft in the fleet (guess), but any flights I have been on BHD-LHR-BHD have always been well filled (of course this wasn't always the case when BA were flying).
Seems that a fall-back to A320/319 will limit bmi's passenger load out of City as they probably won't want to give up any more slots at LHR to increase frequencies for the a.m. and p.m peaks.
Do any other UK city-pairs see full aircraft at peak times, even with a 321? I guess BA compete on most of the others so it is harder to estimate a true peak load?
BTW, the C-class cabin (which I have been known to use from time to time :-) never seems excessively big... most of the bus is Y. (And I am not a CS)
Regards,
Shuttlebus
Indeed you are correct, most bmi flights in (and out) of BHD these days are A321s (If they are taking off from 22, I can see & hear them from the office).
I can understand bmi wanting rid of them, as the 321s are probably some of the oldest aircraft in the fleet (guess), but any flights I have been on BHD-LHR-BHD have always been well filled (of course this wasn't always the case when BA were flying).
Seems that a fall-back to A320/319 will limit bmi's passenger load out of City as they probably won't want to give up any more slots at LHR to increase frequencies for the a.m. and p.m peaks.
Do any other UK city-pairs see full aircraft at peak times, even with a 321? I guess BA compete on most of the others so it is harder to estimate a true peak load?
BTW, the C-class cabin (which I have been known to use from time to time :-) never seems excessively big... most of the bus is Y. (And I am not a CS)
Regards,
Shuttlebus
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bmi in Major Crisis!
I love this airline I want them to be among the best but the crisis at bmi is increasing at a rate of knots!
They've already lost lot's of passengers and the ones they still have are continuously turning their backs on them. bmi's load factor for January was a pathetic 53% and it's all because of the service changes.
The only way to turn bmi around is for them to return to the old ways (how difficult would that be?) and even then it would take some damn good advertising to get their customers to return!
If bmi stay as they are now it won't be too long before they go and join Sabena in the great airport in the sky!
They've already lost lot's of passengers and the ones they still have are continuously turning their backs on them. bmi's load factor for January was a pathetic 53% and it's all because of the service changes.
The only way to turn bmi around is for them to return to the old ways (how difficult would that be?) and even then it would take some damn good advertising to get their customers to return!
If bmi stay as they are now it won't be too long before they go and join Sabena in the great airport in the sky!
This happens in any business environment. Companies come, companies go. Some get led onwards and upwards by dynamic personalities, some fall into the hands of the most amazing klutzes who do the most ridiculous things and lose all the heritage. It happens.
Now what example was I looking for. Ah yes, BMI.
Now what example was I looking for. Ah yes, BMI.
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Yes, they certainly seem to be a candidate for the "New Coke" award for making a complete pig's ear of the company.
I can see that they've made mistakes; that can happen to any company, but what I find most amazing is that they seem to have lost any sense of vision or awareness of where they are and where they are going; MB doesn't seem to be involved any more and while they may be waiting for new long haul routes, the soonest day could be introduced from LHR is next November; can the current situation be allowed to continue for that long?
One can't help wondering how the current freefall is affecting company morale; the idea that the company's management seems very limp and unresponsive to the microburst into the which it has flown the company can't do much for confidence or security.
Is MB going to take action to resolve it? Is he still interested in and committed to the company? If so, why doesn't he get some decent management in and turn the company around; there is absolutely no excuse for a company with the kind of assets and advantages bmi has (LHR slots in particular) to be doing so incredibly badly.
I can see that they've made mistakes; that can happen to any company, but what I find most amazing is that they seem to have lost any sense of vision or awareness of where they are and where they are going; MB doesn't seem to be involved any more and while they may be waiting for new long haul routes, the soonest day could be introduced from LHR is next November; can the current situation be allowed to continue for that long?
One can't help wondering how the current freefall is affecting company morale; the idea that the company's management seems very limp and unresponsive to the microburst into the which it has flown the company can't do much for confidence or security.
Is MB going to take action to resolve it? Is he still interested in and committed to the company? If so, why doesn't he get some decent management in and turn the company around; there is absolutely no excuse for a company with the kind of assets and advantages bmi has (LHR slots in particular) to be doing so incredibly badly.
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I don't think Sir Michael will be too concerned. If Open Skies happens he'll be able to auction off the LHR slots for a fortune. If not he supposedly has an option to sell to Lufthansa (at a value much higher than the current value of the company).
I think he just wants to keep it ticking along until he can cash out.
And bvgger the staff and customers in the meantime
I think he just wants to keep it ticking along until he can cash out.
And bvgger the staff and customers in the meantime
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Trying to book a BMI long haul flight by telephone is not exactly the easiest experience in the world, they dont seem to know what days certain flights opperate. From a first point of contact with potential customers that is very poor indeed.
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question for all you airline economists
to those on this thread who seem to think they have the answers, rather than criticise incessantly, answer the following:-
the old short haul model at Heathrow, although popular was losing money month on month and the situation was getting worse by the day. The low cost carriers with their low cost bases and who started with clean sheets of paper were having an enourmous effect not only on bmi but BA too. Something HAD to be done to cut costs - FACT.
The only way was to cut out the loss making aspects i.e. business products including hugely expensive airport lounges, catering contracts. Although regrettable, there was no option.
So, to those who bleat on about how bmi has lost direction and bring back business class etc, - what is the solution when operating out of such a high cost airport such as LHR?
the old short haul model at Heathrow, although popular was losing money month on month and the situation was getting worse by the day. The low cost carriers with their low cost bases and who started with clean sheets of paper were having an enourmous effect not only on bmi but BA too. Something HAD to be done to cut costs - FACT.
The only way was to cut out the loss making aspects i.e. business products including hugely expensive airport lounges, catering contracts. Although regrettable, there was no option.
So, to those who bleat on about how bmi has lost direction and bring back business class etc, - what is the solution when operating out of such a high cost airport such as LHR?
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in reply to teifiboy, the answer is to get bums on seats by rewarding loyalty to your frequent flyers, offering a superior service and product to your competiter. If I had a choice now, between british midland's "diamond service", and BA's service on the same route, I'd choose midland without thinking of the price because of the amazing product it was. It seems the bmi is now getting ready to sell up!! after all, bish should have retired last year, and he's gota go sometime. looking at the figures as they are bish would have sacked Nigel long time ago, but he hasnt!! seems loke he's had enough!!! (now that he has a new toy boy!!)
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BMI
So sad to see such a once great airline declining ! The management are the only ones to blame. In reply to flyme69 I think the answer is to get bums on seats by cutting costs and offering lower fares quickly. Most of BMI's loyal once loyal customers are now flying with low cost carriers such as Easyjet and Ryanair. These stats show an obvious decline in the companies profits:
plc figures (inc bmibaby)20002001200220032004
turnover
£739.2m£756.9m£723.8m£772m £830
passengers
7.1m6.7m7.5m9.4m 10.5
profit/(loss)
£8.2m£12.4m (£19.6m)(£9.8m) £2.1m
revenue passenger km (scheduled)
3836.8m4256m5303m6711m7246m
It will be interesting to see what will happen to this once great Airline ! !
plc figures (inc bmibaby)20002001200220032004
turnover
£739.2m£756.9m£723.8m£772m £830
passengers
7.1m6.7m7.5m9.4m 10.5
profit/(loss)
£8.2m£12.4m (£19.6m)(£9.8m) £2.1m
revenue passenger km (scheduled)
3836.8m4256m5303m6711m7246m
It will be interesting to see what will happen to this once great Airline ! !
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flyme69
the point is that when bmi were offering this great service it was losing money at an alarming rate. It was totally unsustainable!!
Its a huge shame that the airline has gone this way but the alternative was not viable
the point is that when bmi were offering this great service it was losing money at an alarming rate. It was totally unsustainable!!
Its a huge shame that the airline has gone this way but the alternative was not viable
Last edited by teifiboy; 3rd Mar 2006 at 11:34.
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Bmi have been well and truly shafted by the 2 recent Chief Operating Officers. The last one started the ball rolling, then jumped ship for a life in the Middle East and the current one doesn't seem to have a clue.
Staff morale is at an all time low - it always has been low at Bmi, but now it is non-existant. Blanket overtime bans so long term staff are jumping ship in droves, (but this never bothered Bmi in the past so won't now either - when the managements only answer to staff problems is there is the door, if you leave there are plenty of people in Tesco's that will take your job !!) it's not easy to survive on a basic of approx £1100/month for ground staff in the London area without o/t. They need a good clear out of management too. Some of the managers there are up to no good from the word on the street.
Midland had so much going for it, but in the last 5 years have been in freefall mode. If they don't do something soon they will hit the ground hard.
Bmi have some great people working for them who have been very loyal to the company despite the companies poor treatment of them. It's these people I feel sorry for.
They need to do something quickly. For a start, they could get rid of the stupid rule that passengers MUST use a machine to check-in, and get the desks manned again. It is much quicker and efficient from what I've seen, it's more personal too which is what a lot of people actually want. They could hand out free soft drinks, and charge for alcohol. Get rid of those crap moveable seats and install 3 rows of proper Business class seats on all a/c, so they would have 12 proper C seats that would appeal to those who want them, and as supply would be low on each flight, they could keep prices fairly high for those who want to pay for it and at least those who do would have the choice on every route. Sort out the ff scheme and give a higher reward again and let silvers back into the lounge too.
They could carry on with their variable fares in econ, ditch the paid drinks in econ on L/haul as no other l/haul offers it, (except charters) so they wouldn't loose as many pax. Make more of an effort with excess baggage (don't know what they are like now, but they used to waive everything !!) and charge for e/exit on l/haul ala Virgin as people are actually prepared to pay it. Round trip fuel all short haul flights where poss (and where it is economical to do so) so only paying out for fuelling once per round trip.
Thats just for starters !!!.
SMB, if your reading, I'll come and sort your airline out
Staff morale is at an all time low - it always has been low at Bmi, but now it is non-existant. Blanket overtime bans so long term staff are jumping ship in droves, (but this never bothered Bmi in the past so won't now either - when the managements only answer to staff problems is there is the door, if you leave there are plenty of people in Tesco's that will take your job !!) it's not easy to survive on a basic of approx £1100/month for ground staff in the London area without o/t. They need a good clear out of management too. Some of the managers there are up to no good from the word on the street.
Midland had so much going for it, but in the last 5 years have been in freefall mode. If they don't do something soon they will hit the ground hard.
Bmi have some great people working for them who have been very loyal to the company despite the companies poor treatment of them. It's these people I feel sorry for.
They need to do something quickly. For a start, they could get rid of the stupid rule that passengers MUST use a machine to check-in, and get the desks manned again. It is much quicker and efficient from what I've seen, it's more personal too which is what a lot of people actually want. They could hand out free soft drinks, and charge for alcohol. Get rid of those crap moveable seats and install 3 rows of proper Business class seats on all a/c, so they would have 12 proper C seats that would appeal to those who want them, and as supply would be low on each flight, they could keep prices fairly high for those who want to pay for it and at least those who do would have the choice on every route. Sort out the ff scheme and give a higher reward again and let silvers back into the lounge too.
They could carry on with their variable fares in econ, ditch the paid drinks in econ on L/haul as no other l/haul offers it, (except charters) so they wouldn't loose as many pax. Make more of an effort with excess baggage (don't know what they are like now, but they used to waive everything !!) and charge for e/exit on l/haul ala Virgin as people are actually prepared to pay it. Round trip fuel all short haul flights where poss (and where it is economical to do so) so only paying out for fuelling once per round trip.
Thats just for starters !!!.
SMB, if your reading, I'll come and sort your airline out
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to be fair, the airline has been shafted by the low costs. Passengers are no longer paying the true cost of flying.
However, maybe some light at the end of the tunnel
Lufthansa mulls more acquisitions. Lufthansa is looking for more airlines to become bigger, said Chairman and CEO Wolfgang Mayrhuber. "We have to be able to make more acquisitions long term. Swiss, Eurowings and Air Dolomiti were just the beginning." European airlines, in his view, need to be a certain size in order to survive. He hinted that when a Lufthansa partner can no longer compete, the company stands ready." Source: Aviation Daily
However, maybe some light at the end of the tunnel
Lufthansa mulls more acquisitions. Lufthansa is looking for more airlines to become bigger, said Chairman and CEO Wolfgang Mayrhuber. "We have to be able to make more acquisitions long term. Swiss, Eurowings and Air Dolomiti were just the beginning." European airlines, in his view, need to be a certain size in order to survive. He hinted that when a Lufthansa partner can no longer compete, the company stands ready." Source: Aviation Daily
Last edited by teifiboy; 3rd Mar 2006 at 11:34.
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ditch the paid drinks in econ on L/haul as no other l/haul offers it, (except charters) so they wouldn't loose as many pax. Make more of an effort with excess baggage (don't know what they are like now, but they used to waive everything !!)
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leezyjet
"Round trip fuel all short haul flights where poss (and where it is economical to do so) so only paying out for fuelling once per round trip."
Please explain how taking round trip fuel on short haul flights is a cost saving matter??? Do you know how much it costs to carry that excess fuel?
"Round trip fuel all short haul flights where poss (and where it is economical to do so) so only paying out for fuelling once per round trip."
Please explain how taking round trip fuel on short haul flights is a cost saving matter??? Do you know how much it costs to carry that excess fuel?
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It seems that the B-767 is going to kill the routes out of manchester!!! The a/c is tech in Barbados at the moment, resulting in the Las Vegas flights (751 and the 752) being cancelled today!! Can't believe they didn't learn their lesson after the B-757 killed the washington. 
Last edited by Evileyes; 2nd Mar 2006 at 17:29.
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Originally Posted by flyme69
It seems that the B-767 is going to kill the routes out of Manchester!!! The a/c is tech in Barbados at the moment, resulting in the Las Vegas flights (751 and the 752) being cancelled today!! Can't believe they didn't learn their lesson after the B-757 killed the Washington.
Although despite all the problems, from what I've heard here it seems the downfall will not last forever and things will get sorted sooner or later (probably later).
Edit:
Maybe my mod colleague missed your use of a derogatory term and a name. That is a big no no. Do it again and I am afraid you will be deprived of your PPRuNe rights.
Last edited by PPRuNe Pop; 2nd Mar 2006 at 21:22.
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As one or two threaders have said this outcome looks more and more likely. At BA CC recruitment we are inundated with applications and some BMI colleagues at LHR are depressed about the situation. Hopefully you will be bought out?