GATWICK

[Capetonian]

I thought the North runway was only used as a taxiway. I stand corrected, thanks! Also I remember reading somewhere that it is the world's busiest single runway airport, which is apparently correct but a little misleading.

[Joao da Silva]

Nicholas49

Thank you for your reminder on the tort of negligence.

However, a faulty product does not imply negligence in every case, does it?

If an electronic device fails due to a chip burning out very quickly, say within 24 hours of purchase, (bathtub effect) then who does the consumer contact?

I think the point is clear and the EC chose a similar principle in making the airline responsible for providing care (and possibly compensation) along similar principles, whilst recognizing that the airline was not impeded from seeking redress where appropriate.

For example if a tour operator overbooks, the airline must pay the denied boarding compensation, not the tour operator.

[Skipness One Echo]

There ARE two runways at LGW and it IS the world's busiest single runway operation...

Gatwick does have two runways.

26L / 08R and 26R / 08L

The second runway is used only when the main runway is unavailable. The runways are much too close to be used at the same time and there are some stands on Pier One that musn't be used when the secondary runway is in operation.

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2010-11-18.pdf

[shinobi1]

As someone that was working airside at LGW when it closed, I can categorically state that the snow was very heavy all night. the de-icers couldn't clear the snow on the aircraft as quickly as it was falling!
The 50 mile drive home at 4am was treacherous as well. We had over a foot of snow just last night. The trains aren't running, the buses aren't running. I don't think the airport authorities had any option other than to close.

Shinobi

[Nicholas49]

Joao - we can't discuss this at length because it is off-topic, but this is one of the very rare times on this forum where I am 'qualified' to answer.

However, a faulty product does not imply negligence in every case, does it?

No, I never said it did, but I suspect you are forgetting about product liability, whereby manufacturers are strictly liable (i.e. automatically negligent) for their faulty products. That's another story, though.

You said Tesco, not the manufacturer, is liable. I pointed out that that is not correct in law. However, you rightly point out that the party you seek compensation from is not always the party at fault. Let's leave it at that.

Skipness One Echo - am I correct in thinking that only "one" of the runways is ILS-equipped?

[AvWRup]

There has been too much emphasis on improving the terminal experience for passengers at Gatwick and not enough on airside operations. Having bright, spacious and friendly terminals count for nothing if passengers can't actually fly anywhere. Cracks are appearing in GIPs ability to run a major airport and to keep it running during periods of adverse weather conditions.

Similar to another project east of the city.

[Doug the Head]

Unable to keep 1 (ONE!) lousy runway open during a bit of snow is nothing else but pathetic!

Absolutely pathetic and on par with the third world! How can the public put up with it?

How come airports with similar weather (LHR, AMS, BRU, CDG, ORY etc) can stay open?

[Wellington Bomber]

Airlines dont want to pay landing fees and therefore airports have to make income by other means, i.e shops, parking etc

If airlines want to have runways always open in all weathers, then pay reasonable landing fees, then airports can pay for snow ploughs which more or less will sit idle for 340 days a year. BUT they will pay for themselves overall

It always comes down to you pay for what you get

endeth the lesson

[Joao da Silva]

Hi Nicholas

No, I never said it did, but I suspect you are forgetting about product liability, whereby manufacturers are strictly liable (i.e. automatically negligent) for their faulty products. That's another story, though.

I'm the marketing director of a large manufacturing company, so product liability is never far from my thoughts ;-)

But your points are well made and I am happy to accept your informed view.

Of course, if Tesco breaks the product, causing it to be faulty (Only joking.)

[Dropline]

LHR hasn't had anything like the amount of snow LGW has. Last night there was over 8 inches on the ground and it was still falling. It's not simply a matter of clearing the runway either - all the taxyways and stands need to be cleared as well before they can think about reopening. It's a massive operation and as fast as they were clearing last night, more snow was falling. Yes, something needs to be done to enable the airport to cope better with snowfall, but I do think most airports would struggle to cope with this amount of snow.

Even if they could clear the runway, the rail network around the airport has all but shut down, few buses are running, and the roads are treacherous, so how would passengers get there? Staff who live locally are finding it difficult and in some cases impossible to get in to work. I've never seen this much snow in the UK in my life - it's way more than we had back in January. Oh and it looks like freezing fog may be on the way as well!

[Capetonian]

The Gatwick Express has not been operating whilst the airport has been closed. That makes some sense as there are no passengers, but there are still people who have to travel to/from the airport and surrounding area, so perhaps a substantially reduced service would have made sense.

Yesterday the other rail services were severely disrupted, today apparently there there were none and it took a friend of mine almost 5 hours to get to Victoria. All this disruption does seem excessive given the relatively small amount of snowfall, and that other countries with similar climates, e.g. Holland, do not seem to have been disrupted to anything approaching the same extent. The excuse that this is 'exceptional' is wearing a bit thin.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Captonian, I think you'll find it's called patheticness*.

I'm not far from Gatters, I've been out in the car today. Yep it's slippy and a bit dodgy but if you go carefully then there isn't a problem. Oh yes, it took me three hours to do what normally takes twenty minutes so leave earlier, if you can be bothered.







*I made that up

[Skipness One Echo]

How come airports with similar weather (LHR, AMS, BRU, CDG, ORY etc) can stay open?

Please rant less and read more. LHR has not had a fraction of the snow that LGW has. There were no trains all the way from Gatwick through Croydon this morning.
BBC News - Snow leaves travellers facing further severe disruption

I'm not sure I'd want to fly from here today anyway.

ll this disruption does seem excessive given the relatively small amount of snowfall, and that other countries with similar climates, e.g. Holland, do not seem to have been disrupted to anything approaching the same extent. The excuse that this is 'exceptional' is wearing a bit thin.

Having waded through it I am unwiling to defer to your judgement on this. As I skidded for the umpteenth time it was obviously and quite apparently EXCEPTIONAL. Some people just love to moan. If this becomes the norm we will get better at it but in recent years, there has been no call for the huge infrastructure changes that this calls for.

so perhaps a substantially reduced service would have made sense.

As to the Express, it serves more than Gatwick nowadays but is unable to pass trains stuck ahead hence the closures. I know I was stuck static at Victoria for an hour on Monday and that was a good result tbh.

[Mr Flaps]

For those who can remember last winter the same thing happened at LGW when the airport was closed due to snow.
I have noticed that a number of people stated that GVA was shut 1/DEC/10 that was correct but they had 40cm over night and it kept coming. I spoke to LX in GVA and thats what they told me. The Swiss expect snow and even more so in GVA.
LGW had a tiny amount next to that figure.
But can I make one very simple point here. Its winter so we should be ready for this. What LGW has had next to GVA is laughable. And no real reason why LGW is closed. Its other the 'mental elifs' in Health and Safety or lack of kit to do the job.
Saying that ZRH has had snow also and I would not have known until I spoke to one of our cpt's today at LHR. Only cos the flights are running to time.

[Capetonian]

As I skidded for the umpteenth time it was obviously and quite apparently EXCEPTIONAL.

I'm not casting doubts on your driving ability, please don't take it that way, but in other countries where snow is the norm, winter/snow tyres or studs are used, in some countries they are mandatory. Also the roads seem to be better prepared with grit or salt, and the drivers seem to be more used to such conditions and consequently are prepared for it and take it in their stride, rather than what happens here. Also, the railways don't come to a grinding halt.

As to the Express, it serves more than Gatwick nowadays

I'm not quite sure about this. I've seen the Gatwick Express rolling stock on other routes but I think it is leased to other rail operators. No doubt there's an anorak or two here who could enlighten us on this!

[Skipness One Echo]

What LGW has had next to GVA is laughable.

For the record what would this amount be?

but in other countries where snow is the norm

This is the point. In the last 15-20 years snow has NOT been the norm in the UK. Hence it will take years more of this to get back up to speed again. The institutional memory of winter snow has entirely gone from swathes of the UK.

In recent years we were looking at the permanent closure of Aviemore and the entire Scottish skiiing industry. No longer....

[Mr Flaps]

20cm at LGW half the amount in GVA.

[Dropline]

"The Swiss expect snow and even more so in Geneva" - hence they are far better equipped to deal with it!!!
I live near Gatwick and have about 30cm of snow in my garden now, which is far more than I've ever known to fall around here. We don't usually get more than 3 or 4cm, if any at all! It's not just Gatwick that can't cope, it's the whole transport infrastructure.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Anyone know when LGW was closed for such a long time?
When i was a youth (many years ago) i had just passed my driving test and had to go out in the Laker Ops Van (lightweight) and collect a CSD for a BCAL DC10 Sub charter LGW-LAGOS. She lived in Burgess Hill and it was snowing heavily. The flight was waiting on ramp as less than min crew.
Eventually found her, and got her to the aircraft.
Subsequently on leaving Laker after a 15 hr day i "dropped" my motorcycle just coming out of the security gate.
Aaagh memories (and least my driving is better than Joua from Portugal and his fellow Countrymen)

[SetStandard]

I have no idea what some of you are talking about?

Capetonian, I’m sat in Crawley, just to the south of LGW. Earlier I ventured outside to measure how much snow had actually fallen. It ranged between 25cm and 30cm. I have the photographic evidence to prove it. What the hell are you talking about “a relatively small amount of snow fall”?

I have friends in Windsor (about 5-6 miles from LHR) and they have seen next to no snowfall at all, I’m sitting here in just under 30cm. No wonder LHR is open and LGW is SNOCLO! I’d be unable to get to LGW to go to work even if it was open because of the road conditions.

Some of you are talking complete rubbish and really should know better.