Emirates
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prestwick
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Prestwick wasn't even the third alternate for EK27 so sadly it lost out. Perhaps if the airport management met with EK Station staff at GLA then they could work together on an operational plan for a diversion. This can be fed back to EKAS and EK NCC who can then look at using Prestwick as a first port of call during the rare event that a diversion is necessary.
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Scotland
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EK will always look to divert first to airports where they have a ground presence, also airports where the pilots feel comfortable with. The Pilots decision process would be ok, where have we fuel to go to. Ok MAN, EDI, PIK or NCL. Ok where have we been before as pilots, ok that’s MAN & NCL. Call to Ops can you handle? MAN No busy, NCL yes. OK NCL it is. If GLA is to open again soon, we can fuel up and return all the fuel contracts are there. You’ll find a ferry flight in a 777 from NCL or MAN to Glasgow would be similar in times and fuel burn as PWK to GLA. I’m sure if the pilots looked at their fuel reserves and they were low then a dive to PIK or EDI would have been the solution. Also you have to remember that EK staff have to get from GLA to PIK the M77 over Fenwick Moor is hellish!!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: solihull West Midlands
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So after what, 3 go-arounds at GLA ? the Emirates went back to the hold then diverted to NCL. 5 hours away by road, if the roads were open. What Emirates could have done, if Customer care was of any importance to them, was divert to PIK. For the information of Emirates, PIK is 30 miles from GLA and PIK had no weather issue. Then Emirates could have taken on a little fuel then repositioned to GLA and landed as every other flight did. PIK, Prestwick Airport, is an hour by road from Glasgow and 40 minutes by train. Your passengers would have been in their own beds tonight. A very, very poor performance.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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Bearing in mind Emirates would have their own staff at Newcastle, and probably more hotel accomodation than the area closebto Prestwick, if they had to put passengers up overnight..why would they divert to Prestwick ??
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Prestwick, Scotland
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Callum Paterson. Your post adds nothing to the discussion. It is one of the most childish and abusive posts I have ever read on Pprune. It is nothing more than a personal attack, reflecting only upon yourself.
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prestwick
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To be fair, HOTAC wouldn't be required if it diverted to Prestwick. It is no more than 90 mins from where most people need to get to.
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prestwick
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EK will always look to divert first to airports where they have a ground presence, also airports where the pilots feel comfortable with. The Pilots decision process would be ok, where have we fuel to go to. Ok MAN, EDI, PIK or NCL. Ok where have we been before as pilots, ok that’s MAN & NCL. Call to Ops can you handle? MAN No busy, NCL yes. OK NCL it is. If GLA is to open again soon, we can fuel up and return all the fuel contracts are there. You’ll find a ferry flight in a 777 from NCL or MAN to Glasgow would be similar in times and fuel burn as PWK to GLA. I’m sure if the pilots looked at their fuel reserves and they were low then a dive to PIK or EDI would have been the solution. Also you have to remember that EK staff have to get from GLA to PIK the M77 over Fenwick Moor is hellish!!
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Having worked as a dispatcher for BD at Glasgow who at the time handled, AC and AA as well as BD, it was always first choice to divert to a home port. The reasons are logistical and generally the preference of flight deck to operate to an airport they knew. The logistics on the ground are easier, hotels, fuel, ramp costs and taxis all had contracts in place. PIK is used for diverts from GLA in emergency circs and a few weather related but I can see no reason why EK would plan it first divert option for their crews (with the added expense) when it has two home bases nearby. The NCL & MAN flights have came to GLA in the recent past. The flight crew will have spoken to Swissport at MAN & NCL before diverting for handling availability.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
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Good grief I cannot believe what a stramash has been caused over 1 x EK divert.
If PIK was shut down we wouldn't be having this (pointless) discussion, so I say shut the place down - waste of space as well as taxpayers money!!
If PIK was shut down we wouldn't be having this (pointless) discussion, so I say shut the place down - waste of space as well as taxpayers money!!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sussex
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Isn’t it a shame that a good legal, safe, and operational decision made by the captain is been questioned on a public forum. I wouldn’t see any good reason to go to PIK unless short of fuel/time which was clearly not the case
To be fair, I think only one individual challenged the decision to divert to NCL, and that was self-evidently more to do with being a PIK fan than anything else. Every other comment I’ve read has largely endorsed the decision of the Emirates crew. I think the sheer volume of responses was provoked by the rather emotive nature of the original posting on the subject.
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prestwick
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From an operational perspective it is absolutely the correct solution to divert to another station with staff, handling etc, although I do think had Edinburgh been available it would have gone there first. Prestwick is an alternate but may not have had the relevant RFF cover in place when the crew elected to initiate a diversion. I believe PIK is CAT 7 (?) but Emirates may require CAT 8 or 9. Judging by the poster from NCL above, bad weather after arrival played a factor in the crew running out of hours, which couldn't be foreseen. Don't get me wrong, I would have liked to see this flight in Prestwick (Etihad use EMA as a weather div for MAN despite having no staff there) but the diversion was a logical one for the crew and airline.
I think Prestwick can upgrade to RFFS 9 at short notice so that probably wasn’t a factor. I’d imagine it went along the lines of an ACARS to Ops saying “we might not get into Glasgow, here are the airports we can reach. Where do you want us to go?” Diversion destinations like this are usually decided by the Ops department as they have the ‘big picture’. Pilot’s usually only decide on diversions if time is a factor
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: uk
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Er, Glasgow/GLA is 40 minutes up the road?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sussex
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Im well aware of the geography, thank you, but when is 40 minutes not 40 minutes....
- Who will and what contract is in in place for ground handling? Provide chocks, stairs, staff to marshal passengers?
- Passengers make it to terminal, can immigration cope with 300+ arrivals from a non-EU airport (more likely to have less EU passport holders)?
- Are customs available to handle all those passengers?
- Does PIK have the necessary Hi-Los to remove containers of luggage from the aircraft? Again provided by who?
- Does PIK have the ability then to unload those containers so passengers get their luggage on the belt
- Who is arranging transport to GLA? Do EK have a contract with a local bus company, if not when will bus arrive? Who is marshalling the passengers / providing information to now tired passengers (no EK staff at PIK).
So thats just the passengers off the aircraft then we have to look at recovery, reducing schedule disruption etc...
- Who will, and what contract is in place for fuelling?
- Crew now out of hours, so they will now need a full rest period. In NCL you may be able to have a whole crew already in hours, just have an earlier report
- Then we need hotels for the the now out of hours crew, contract hotel? whos transporting?
- Aircraft in PIK is out of service as long as crew are
- Hows about engineering? Any techd items made on last flight?
As stated before the only reason to go to PIK is lack of fuel = time. PIK is full of questions, at least in NCL you have exactly zero of the above problems. So yes its 40 minutes drive away , but it will not only take your passengers considerably more than 40 minutes to get to GLA, it has more of a chance of delaying the rest of the operation further.
- Who will and what contract is in in place for ground handling? Provide chocks, stairs, staff to marshal passengers?
- Passengers make it to terminal, can immigration cope with 300+ arrivals from a non-EU airport (more likely to have less EU passport holders)?
- Are customs available to handle all those passengers?
- Does PIK have the necessary Hi-Los to remove containers of luggage from the aircraft? Again provided by who?
- Does PIK have the ability then to unload those containers so passengers get their luggage on the belt
- Who is arranging transport to GLA? Do EK have a contract with a local bus company, if not when will bus arrive? Who is marshalling the passengers / providing information to now tired passengers (no EK staff at PIK).
So thats just the passengers off the aircraft then we have to look at recovery, reducing schedule disruption etc...
- Who will, and what contract is in place for fuelling?
- Crew now out of hours, so they will now need a full rest period. In NCL you may be able to have a whole crew already in hours, just have an earlier report
- Then we need hotels for the the now out of hours crew, contract hotel? whos transporting?
- Aircraft in PIK is out of service as long as crew are
- Hows about engineering? Any techd items made on last flight?
As stated before the only reason to go to PIK is lack of fuel = time. PIK is full of questions, at least in NCL you have exactly zero of the above problems. So yes its 40 minutes drive away , but it will not only take your passengers considerably more than 40 minutes to get to GLA, it has more of a chance of delaying the rest of the operation further.