Excel Airways
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Rubbish
Charter guy is a prat, you do NOT know what you are talking about - Viking Airlines is on the Scandinavian reg so your comment on crews are rubbish like the majority of comment you pen!
PW put his heart and sole into refinancing the business he built up from nothing! - it was the Icelandic banks that ensured XLLG's demise.
If you recall it was the two banks that put the price tag on the business back in Nov 06 and effectively burdoned the business with excessive debt. It was also the same banks that until the 11th hour refused to take any write down on the afore mentioned debt (they effectively wanted their money again) which just was not realistic in the current climate.
These banks were indicating that they would continue to support XL as a going concern until the 11th hour when both parties refused to put in any more working capital, to add insult to injury they then announced 24hrs later that they were going to write off the entire debt...IF THEY HAD DONE THIS ONLY 1 WEEK EARLIER THE BUSINESS WOULD NOT HAVE FAILED !!! it would have been refinanced and been in good shape with little or now debt and with oil and currency where it is today MADE A DECENT PROFIT IN FY 2009...
I have the upmost sympathy for all that lost their jobs, i am one of them, but please stop the personnal attacks and look at the facts....if you want to take your anger out on anyone its the banks that should be in the firing line! Not individuals...........
PW put his heart and sole into refinancing the business he built up from nothing! - it was the Icelandic banks that ensured XLLG's demise.
If you recall it was the two banks that put the price tag on the business back in Nov 06 and effectively burdoned the business with excessive debt. It was also the same banks that until the 11th hour refused to take any write down on the afore mentioned debt (they effectively wanted their money again) which just was not realistic in the current climate.
These banks were indicating that they would continue to support XL as a going concern until the 11th hour when both parties refused to put in any more working capital, to add insult to injury they then announced 24hrs later that they were going to write off the entire debt...IF THEY HAD DONE THIS ONLY 1 WEEK EARLIER THE BUSINESS WOULD NOT HAVE FAILED !!! it would have been refinanced and been in good shape with little or now debt and with oil and currency where it is today MADE A DECENT PROFIT IN FY 2009...
I have the upmost sympathy for all that lost their jobs, i am one of them, but please stop the personnal attacks and look at the facts....if you want to take your anger out on anyone its the banks that should be in the firing line! Not individuals...........
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PW put his heart and sole into refinancing the business he built up from nothing!
'the business he built up from nothing'..........I don't believe this bit's true
Rgds
The Moss
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As long as PW has not been made bankrupt as an individual, he is allowed to try and do what he like`s (i.e. start another airline!!) Its a sad fact,
but true. As long as can get the funding its his business. Its sucks, but sadly thats the law! ( Still looking for work - need a kiss, but not his! )
but true. As long as can get the funding its his business. Its sucks, but sadly thats the law! ( Still looking for work - need a kiss, but not his! )
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charter guy,
hear! hear!
The interview that PW gave was the most insincere i have witnessed, with the exception of prehaps bush/clinton.....
Head down... sniff.... head down... sniff...., yeah right!!
XL were very very good at scamming people, and lying through their teeth, their 76's where peices of junk from country's where CAA heads where jailed, and it was alledged parts not ICAO and FAA certified.
And if what an earlier post was stating is correct, XL where doing GOV runs for millions, this may explain why pax where sat at airports for 25-50 hrs on a regular basis, and then they would not even pay the poor pax the correct compensation for breach of EC regs that they are entitled to and try and cover it with a tech fault,, double edged bet, the best of both worlds... double payment for a dangerous, awful service...
This is one airline that should be out of business, and would be a crime if he were allowed to run another!!
hear! hear!
The interview that PW gave was the most insincere i have witnessed, with the exception of prehaps bush/clinton.....
Head down... sniff.... head down... sniff...., yeah right!!
XL were very very good at scamming people, and lying through their teeth, their 76's where peices of junk from country's where CAA heads where jailed, and it was alledged parts not ICAO and FAA certified.
And if what an earlier post was stating is correct, XL where doing GOV runs for millions, this may explain why pax where sat at airports for 25-50 hrs on a regular basis, and then they would not even pay the poor pax the correct compensation for breach of EC regs that they are entitled to and try and cover it with a tech fault,, double edged bet, the best of both worlds... double payment for a dangerous, awful service...
This is one airline that should be out of business, and would be a crime if he were allowed to run another!!
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CharterPrat
I am not going to even comment on PW being involved in Viking as it is irrelevant, fact is Viking has been around for many years and successfully trading, therefore it is not a new set up replacing XL!
The point I am making is that the senior team at XL (inc Phil) worked night and day to get the business refinaced, yes this failed and EVERYBODY is gutted !! XL had an excellent team on the ground and in the air. The business had been turned around and although it would have lost a small amount of money this FY it was nothing considering the fuel bill had gone up by circa usd90m - it was the debt that killed it from the MBO...
I understand the anger, I feel the same but these personnal attacks are not justified .... really not sure why you are so vocal you have not lost your job!
PS - you are not as close to this as you think...
The point I am making is that the senior team at XL (inc Phil) worked night and day to get the business refinaced, yes this failed and EVERYBODY is gutted !! XL had an excellent team on the ground and in the air. The business had been turned around and although it would have lost a small amount of money this FY it was nothing considering the fuel bill had gone up by circa usd90m - it was the debt that killed it from the MBO...
I understand the anger, I feel the same but these personnal attacks are not justified .... really not sure why you are so vocal you have not lost your job!
PS - you are not as close to this as you think...
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carbiss22 is a disgrace!
why should xl be out of business! it had 1700 excellent employees now all out of work...
the 767's were all being replaced by a330's the shorhaul fleet was already the youngest in the market....XL punctuality was second to none and headed up the tables...the onboard product was also fantastic
Manchester 'on time' stats for Aug just published - XL were top by miles, this is a credit to all at XL that were still giving 110% despite the uncertain future.....
IDIOT!
the 767's were all being replaced by a330's the shorhaul fleet was already the youngest in the market....XL punctuality was second to none and headed up the tables...the onboard product was also fantastic
Manchester 'on time' stats for Aug just published - XL were top by miles, this is a credit to all at XL that were still giving 110% despite the uncertain future.....
IDIOT!
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CARBIS22
Please choose your words carefully 'This is an airline that should be out of business', not helpful or appropriate my friend!
If PW is or has been involved in dodgey dealings/practices which caused or contributed to the demise of XLLG then I agree, that he and only he along with any of his cronies on the board including a former Silverjet Director, PO, that participated should be held accountable. Hopefully if an investigation is launched after BALPA contacted the Government things may start to show what really went on.
Mr Crocodile Tears, PW, is, as I put on an earlier post in this thread, a 'Barrow Boy' who has no etiquette or professionalism which I had the misfortune to witness 2 years ago when he stood at the front of a base meeting and did nothing but F and Jeff about p**S poor performance of the aircraft which HE chose to inherit from the AAE merger....not something you'd expect from a CEO.
As for the faithful and loyal staff who are left trying to make sense of it all and pick up the pieces of their lives.....we don't deserve to read thoughtless comments like the one you have just posted
We believed in XL Airways and strove to make it a real competitor and a success....which it was in the industry up until last Friday 12th Sept, sadly we were badly let down by; Management, The Icelandics & the Banks.
Finally, (getting off my soap box), I don't believe one word from PM in the TTG interview that PW isn't connected to Kissflights.......too many coincidences and I hope the CAA do investigate and prevent this from even getting off the ground.
"Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid PW.....we're on to you"!
Exmuppet I have to say your loyality to PW is admirable but sadly falling on deaf ears.....
Please choose your words carefully 'This is an airline that should be out of business', not helpful or appropriate my friend!
If PW is or has been involved in dodgey dealings/practices which caused or contributed to the demise of XLLG then I agree, that he and only he along with any of his cronies on the board including a former Silverjet Director, PO, that participated should be held accountable. Hopefully if an investigation is launched after BALPA contacted the Government things may start to show what really went on.
Mr Crocodile Tears, PW, is, as I put on an earlier post in this thread, a 'Barrow Boy' who has no etiquette or professionalism which I had the misfortune to witness 2 years ago when he stood at the front of a base meeting and did nothing but F and Jeff about p**S poor performance of the aircraft which HE chose to inherit from the AAE merger....not something you'd expect from a CEO.
As for the faithful and loyal staff who are left trying to make sense of it all and pick up the pieces of their lives.....we don't deserve to read thoughtless comments like the one you have just posted
We believed in XL Airways and strove to make it a real competitor and a success....which it was in the industry up until last Friday 12th Sept, sadly we were badly let down by; Management, The Icelandics & the Banks.
Finally, (getting off my soap box), I don't believe one word from PM in the TTG interview that PW isn't connected to Kissflights.......too many coincidences and I hope the CAA do investigate and prevent this from even getting off the ground.
"Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid PW.....we're on to you"!
Exmuppet I have to say your loyality to PW is admirable but sadly falling on deaf ears.....
Last edited by dalmation67; 20th Sep 2008 at 10:15.
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Originally Posted by exmuppet
I am not going to even comment on PW being involved in Viking as it is irrelevant, fact is Viking has been around for many years and successfully trading, therefore it is not a new set up replacing XL!
I find the interview with PM Strange considering its a 'New' start up company. He seems to spend more time explaining away associations and making denials, rather than telling the world what a great company this new venture will be, or at least that's what most new companies would do, don't you think.
How can you deny that this is a new venture when PM says it is?
Every journo in town must be watching this one, and I suspect the regulators are as well, quite rightly so.
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Muppet!!
Do you really think I give a damm what names you choose to call me,
this information has already been posted on pprune some time ago, and as for XL's fantastic time keeping, check out other forums to see what people actually thought, and read their experiences, it dont take einstein to figure out, oh and the recent holiday which review, think XL came second to last!
Again do not blame the staff, always comes down to bad management!
Whilst the NICE ex- staff of XL, and only the NICE ones have my sympathy, it is my hope they will move on to better things, and to a more secure employer that will not leave them high and dry as this one did..
as that is what the true disgrace is here!!
this information has already been posted on pprune some time ago, and as for XL's fantastic time keeping, check out other forums to see what people actually thought, and read their experiences, it dont take einstein to figure out, oh and the recent holiday which review, think XL came second to last!
Again do not blame the staff, always comes down to bad management!
Whilst the NICE ex- staff of XL, and only the NICE ones have my sympathy, it is my hope they will move on to better things, and to a more secure employer that will not leave them high and dry as this one did..
as that is what the true disgrace is here!!
Last edited by carbis22; 20th Sep 2008 at 11:14. Reason: adding a line
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Exmuppet.
You say
“If you recall it were the two banks that put the price tag on the business back in Nov 06 and effectively burdened the business with excessive debt. It was also the same banks that until the 11th hour refused to take any write down on the afore mentioned debt (they effectively wanted their money again) which just was not realistic in the current climate.
These banks were indicating that they would continue to support XL as a going concern until the 11th hour when both parties refused to put in any more working capital, to add insult to injury they then announced 24hrs later that they were going to write off the entire debt...IF THEY HAD DONE THIS ONLY 1 WEEK EARLIER THE BUSINESS WOULD NOT HAVE FAILED !!! it would have been refinanced and been in good shape with little or now debt and with oil and currency where it is today MADE A DECENT PROFIT IN FY 2009...”
Now I could be wrong, but surely at the Management Buyout, the team new how much they needed to borrow. The banks would not assist without a guarantee. This was provided by Eimskip. http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=21123&ew_0_a_id=311913
The loan was principally from Barclays and was due for repayment / rescheduling in May this year. Barclays pulled the plug early September, 4 months later than they could have done, as it become clear that things were going to get rough. A stock exchange message was posted in Iceland to the effect. Eimskip put provisions in place to absorb this loan.
http://www.lloydslist.com/ll/news/eimskip-investors-may-acquire-e207m-loan/20017569463.htm
Having been through the busiest period of the year, just prior to the Winter wind down and with aircraft heavy maintenance due, to ask for more working capital was a good indication that the Winter would be the end.
PW had an good airline and product, the results of 1700 hard working individuals (like your self) now without work and who my heart goes out to. But I do feel that some questions should be raised regarding certain business practices by PW and also certain Icelandic investment houses.
Don’t forget that Eimskip is a daughter company of Avion, Now who did Avion own…..
You say
“If you recall it were the two banks that put the price tag on the business back in Nov 06 and effectively burdened the business with excessive debt. It was also the same banks that until the 11th hour refused to take any write down on the afore mentioned debt (they effectively wanted their money again) which just was not realistic in the current climate.
These banks were indicating that they would continue to support XL as a going concern until the 11th hour when both parties refused to put in any more working capital, to add insult to injury they then announced 24hrs later that they were going to write off the entire debt...IF THEY HAD DONE THIS ONLY 1 WEEK EARLIER THE BUSINESS WOULD NOT HAVE FAILED !!! it would have been refinanced and been in good shape with little or now debt and with oil and currency where it is today MADE A DECENT PROFIT IN FY 2009...”
Now I could be wrong, but surely at the Management Buyout, the team new how much they needed to borrow. The banks would not assist without a guarantee. This was provided by Eimskip. http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=21123&ew_0_a_id=311913
The loan was principally from Barclays and was due for repayment / rescheduling in May this year. Barclays pulled the plug early September, 4 months later than they could have done, as it become clear that things were going to get rough. A stock exchange message was posted in Iceland to the effect. Eimskip put provisions in place to absorb this loan.
http://www.lloydslist.com/ll/news/eimskip-investors-may-acquire-e207m-loan/20017569463.htm
Having been through the busiest period of the year, just prior to the Winter wind down and with aircraft heavy maintenance due, to ask for more working capital was a good indication that the Winter would be the end.
PW had an good airline and product, the results of 1700 hard working individuals (like your self) now without work and who my heart goes out to. But I do feel that some questions should be raised regarding certain business practices by PW and also certain Icelandic investment houses.
Don’t forget that Eimskip is a daughter company of Avion, Now who did Avion own…..
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exmuppet
Have a think about what you have written! Its a bit like me phoning my credit card company up today and saying: "would you mind writing off my balance?". It'd be very nice for me, a clean sheet and no debt! But whilst there is a chance of them getting their money they will refuse.
But if I had absolutley no way of paying it off because I was broke and had no job, they might zero the balance and cut their losses.
Chicken and egg syndrome!
they then announced 24hrs later that they were going to write off the entire debt...IF THEY HAD DONE THIS ONLY 1 WEEK EARLIER THE BUSINESS WOULD NOT HAVE FAILED !!!
But if I had absolutley no way of paying it off because I was broke and had no job, they might zero the balance and cut their losses.
Chicken and egg syndrome!
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As an Ex-employee of XL, I can state that the Staff did give 110% Professionalism up to the very end, and maybe the mangement did, maybe the management did'nt, but 1700 of us are now slowly picking up the pieces and begining to get on with our lives, XL going bust cannot be changed it is now past history, and that said is'nt it really time for everybody to move on, whether you were directly involved or not, and as for our Glorious CEO well, The Law of Karma will eventually catch up with him, for whatever wrong doing that has been done will be rectified in one way shape or form.
XL did'nt always get good reviews and we all were aware of that, and yes the 76 fleet were'nt exactly young, but they were maintained to the highest standards and flown to the highest standards.
But i really do think this Ghost Forum really should be laid to rest, and i know it is a forum and people can post what they like, but the fact is XL has gone now and i am sure there will be more exciting things to debate about in the near future.
REST IN PEACE XL GOD SPEED ALL THOSE THAT WERE WITH HER UNTIL THE VERY END
XL did'nt always get good reviews and we all were aware of that, and yes the 76 fleet were'nt exactly young, but they were maintained to the highest standards and flown to the highest standards.
But i really do think this Ghost Forum really should be laid to rest, and i know it is a forum and people can post what they like, but the fact is XL has gone now and i am sure there will be more exciting things to debate about in the near future.
REST IN PEACE XL GOD SPEED ALL THOSE THAT WERE WITH HER UNTIL THE VERY END
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mary hinge
what you forget is:
1. The loan was from Landisbanki garenteed by emskip (then avion), both companies owned by Magnus T, XL was also owened by Avion, think about it, its avion saying I will sell you back the company for more than it worth so our books look good and my sister company will lend you the money..
2, Barclays were not owed money - they provided the hedge possitions on both fuel and FX, when the market moved against the hedge ie oil fell they demanded XL cover their exposure.
3, Emskip is the new name for avion - they are not sister companies
1. The loan was from Landisbanki garenteed by emskip (then avion), both companies owned by Magnus T, XL was also owened by Avion, think about it, its avion saying I will sell you back the company for more than it worth so our books look good and my sister company will lend you the money..
2, Barclays were not owed money - they provided the hedge possitions on both fuel and FX, when the market moved against the hedge ie oil fell they demanded XL cover their exposure.
3, Emskip is the new name for avion - they are not sister companies
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kick they tires
Totally agree but if they took a write down of say 50%, the company would have been refinaced, XL would be in business today and the banks would still have a decent stake in a going concern....
anyway water under the bridge now.....
anyway water under the bridge now.....
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exmuppet
your posts have got me intrigued.
If we believe what you say, and XL were just unlucky that the refinance was not sorted out at the 11th hour or before, why did PW's solicitor register Kissflights.
I have to say, your poor spelling, punctuation, and random CAPITALISATION to make your point, remind me of someone, but I thought the papers said you were mid-forties
If we believe what you say, and XL were just unlucky that the refinance was not sorted out at the 11th hour or before, why did PW's solicitor register Kissflights.
I have to say, your poor spelling, punctuation, and random CAPITALISATION to make your point, remind me of someone, but I thought the papers said you were mid-forties
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Listen up please.
Do not make allegations of mis-doings or name names on PPRuNe. Please keep your comments to standard and don't be tempted to overstate or play a game of chase the wolf.
PPP
Do not make allegations of mis-doings or name names on PPRuNe. Please keep your comments to standard and don't be tempted to overstate or play a game of chase the wolf.
PPP
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Exmuppet.
Landisbank is not owned by Magnus. Magnus did own Avion Group. Avion Group then became Hf. Eimskipafélag Íslands. Islands is then split into the Shipping and Logistics, which is Eimskip, And Aviation services. The Aviation services division was sold off mid 2007. Magnus T stood down 4th Q 2007 http://www.eimskip.com/PortalData/1/...7_LQ_final.pdf
You also wrote " think about it, its avion saying I will sell you back the company for more than it worth so our books look good and my sister company will lend you the money."
But KPMG said "KPMG’s resignation came after staff at XL arranged to delay the payment of invoices to Alpha Airports, an airline catering company. The delay flattered XL’s figures ahead of the flotation of its then parent company, Avion, on the Icelandic stock exchange.
XL Leisure ignored probe into ‘irregularities’ - Times Online
I do believe though that we will all know what did happen quite soon
Landisbank is not owned by Magnus. Magnus did own Avion Group. Avion Group then became Hf. Eimskipafélag Íslands. Islands is then split into the Shipping and Logistics, which is Eimskip, And Aviation services. The Aviation services division was sold off mid 2007. Magnus T stood down 4th Q 2007 http://www.eimskip.com/PortalData/1/...7_LQ_final.pdf
You also wrote " think about it, its avion saying I will sell you back the company for more than it worth so our books look good and my sister company will lend you the money."
But KPMG said "KPMG’s resignation came after staff at XL arranged to delay the payment of invoices to Alpha Airports, an airline catering company. The delay flattered XL’s figures ahead of the flotation of its then parent company, Avion, on the Icelandic stock exchange.
XL Leisure ignored probe into ‘irregularities’ - Times Online
I do believe though that we will all know what did happen quite soon
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Just reg
apologies...dyslexia rules, but in my defence it is a very immotive subject...
Off to brush up my CV and must remember to spell check....
GOOD LUCK LUCK TO ALL EX XL EMPLOYEES ........
Off to brush up my CV and must remember to spell check....
GOOD LUCK LUCK TO ALL EX XL EMPLOYEES ........
