Excel Airways
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Can't quite work that one out, unless XLF were worried about getting their aircraft grounded at MAN???
Join Date: Jun 2006
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johndehav
Are you just being opportunistic here or have you got contract to fulfil?
The Amax Aviation website lists no flight crew jobs that would fit the XLA pilot profile. Is this simply a CV gathering exercise for the new boy at a new company trying to break into the industry?
The XLA guys have enough of a challenge seeking out real opportunities without feeding speculators. Come clean! Where are the jobs? Have you got the contract to supply the pilots?
Are you just being opportunistic here or have you got contract to fulfil?
The Amax Aviation website lists no flight crew jobs that would fit the XLA pilot profile. Is this simply a CV gathering exercise for the new boy at a new company trying to break into the industry?
The XLA guys have enough of a challenge seeking out real opportunities without feeding speculators. Come clean! Where are the jobs? Have you got the contract to supply the pilots?
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Good to see the industry pulling together to help out stranded pax with FR dedicating an aircraft for 2 weeks to the CAA and others like EZY, FLYBE and BMI, also First Choice and Thomson helping out where they can, this from their website.
Latest news - XL Assistance
First Choice Holidays and Thomson step in to help out XL customers
First Choice and Thomson regret that holidaymakers have had their holidays disrupted following the collapse of XL.
Both First Choice and Thomson intend doing everything they can to assist those passengers on ATOL protected flights or holidays, whether it be by aiding their repatriation or helping those who are yet to travel in arranging another holiday and claiming a refund. We will also where possible do our utmost to assist with the repatriation of those who booked a flight-only or a dynamic package and were not protected. If available, they will be able to purchase seats home on our flights.
Dermot Blastland, Managing Director of First Choice and Thomson commented "Unlike customers who booked with package tour operators, customers who booked with scheduled airlines, low cost airlines and online intermediaries often do not have the benefit of financial protection. This means that, in the event of a failure, customers may be stranded overseas or unable to get their money back. We estimate that more than 10,000 people have travelled without ATOL protection and could be stranded if we and others don’t step in to help. For quite some time, we have been lobbying the government to recognise the need for a level playing field for all providers of overseas leisure travel arrangements. We are frustrated with the Government for not stepping in sooner which means we are now faced with a situation whereby those passengers who were not ATOL protected, need our assistance with repatriation and will have to pay for their flight seats home."
First Choice and Thomson assist those stranded overseas
XL customers currently overseas will be able to continue with their holidays as planned. We are currently organising the repatriation of customers who booked ATOL bonded packages and are stranded in Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria, Sardinia and Egypt and these flights will take place as close to the passengers original departure dates as possible. Our overseas teams will be working closely with the existing XL representatives in resort to facilitate the repatriation of customers back to the UK.
Passengers currently stranded overseas are advised in the first instance to visit the CAA website (Air Travel Organisers' Licensing | ATOL) or call +44 (0)2891856547. There will also be links from the XL website.
Further assistance available for those due to travel
First Choice and Thomson are committed to offering an alternative holiday to those XL customers that have booked an ATOL protected package or flight and are yet to travel. We are advising customers who booked direct, or through a First Choice or Thomson shop, to take their XL booking confirmation to any of our branches nationwide. Our experienced retail team will be able to arrange an alternative holiday from our wide range of destinations and assist with claiming the refund for their XL holiday or flight. Customers can therefore rebook to go to their original destination or an alternative simply by paying the difference in the package price if the cost is higher.
For those customers that have booked a First Choice or Thomson holiday with flights originally operated by XL, we will take them to their original destination via a flight with our in house airlines, Thomsonfly and First Choice Airways or, in instances where neither are available, an alternative airline with a travel associate. Should any travel arrangements be subject to change, our customer services team will proactively advise our customers in advance.
Those who have booked a holiday or flight with a travel agent other than First Choice or Thomson are advised to visit the travel agent that originally sold them the holiday, who will be able to look at all available First Choice or Thomson holiday options.
First Choice and Thomson have a dedicated helpline for those not near a First Choice or Thomson shop, which is as follows: Tel: 0871 231 5704
Background information:
All package holiday companies offering air inclusive arrangements must have an Air Travel Organisers Licence or ATOL, which ensures that consumers are repatriated or given a full refund if an airline collapses. This cover is usually not available when customers book separate flights and accommodation. A customer who books a scheduled flight direct with an airline is not given the same financial protection as those booked as part of a package.
Many consumers have a false sense of security, believing that their travel insurance will cover them if an airline fails, but usually, this is not the case. Credit card companies do offer some protection, but they will not repatriate passengers if they are abroad.
A recent survey of Thomson Holidays' customers found that over 90% of holidaymakers said that having their holiday financially protected was important to them but also found that consumers were confused with over 50% of holidaymakers still wrongly believing that booking a scheduled flight directly with an airline meant they were financially protected in the event of bankruptcy.
Despite a Government commitment to encourage scheduled airlines to communicate the fact that flight only bookings are not protected by the ATOL scheme, over 50% of passengers wrongly believed that having paid upfront for their flights in good faith, their money would be protected if the airline went bankrupt.
More detailed advice for customers:
XL Customers who booked direct
If you have booked a holiday or flight with one of these holiday companies direct (ie: not through a travel agent), please go to your local First Choice or Thomsone travel shop. In most cases they will be able to transfer the value of your booking to a new holiday with the minimum of fuss. Our retail staff will be able to then reclaim the value of your lost holiday.
XL Customers booked through a First Choice or Thomson Shop
If you have booked a holiday with one of these companies through a First Choice or Thomson Travel Shop, please go back to the shop where they will be able to help. In most cases we will be able to simply transfer the value of your holiday with the failed company onto another holiday. The travel agent will be able to then reclaim the value of your lost holiday.
XL Customers who booked with a travel agent
If you booked a holiday with one of these companies through any other high street travel agent brand please go back to see them. We are working closely with all UK travel agents on this issue and will in most cases be able to transfer your lost holiday value onto a First Choice or Thomson holiday with the minimum of fuss and no penalty.
In all cases customers should bring all the original documents and proof of payments made to the travel agent. This will help speed things up.
"Good luck for the future to all at XL and sister companies."
Latest news - XL Assistance
First Choice Holidays and Thomson step in to help out XL customers
First Choice and Thomson regret that holidaymakers have had their holidays disrupted following the collapse of XL.
Both First Choice and Thomson intend doing everything they can to assist those passengers on ATOL protected flights or holidays, whether it be by aiding their repatriation or helping those who are yet to travel in arranging another holiday and claiming a refund. We will also where possible do our utmost to assist with the repatriation of those who booked a flight-only or a dynamic package and were not protected. If available, they will be able to purchase seats home on our flights.
Dermot Blastland, Managing Director of First Choice and Thomson commented "Unlike customers who booked with package tour operators, customers who booked with scheduled airlines, low cost airlines and online intermediaries often do not have the benefit of financial protection. This means that, in the event of a failure, customers may be stranded overseas or unable to get their money back. We estimate that more than 10,000 people have travelled without ATOL protection and could be stranded if we and others don’t step in to help. For quite some time, we have been lobbying the government to recognise the need for a level playing field for all providers of overseas leisure travel arrangements. We are frustrated with the Government for not stepping in sooner which means we are now faced with a situation whereby those passengers who were not ATOL protected, need our assistance with repatriation and will have to pay for their flight seats home."
First Choice and Thomson assist those stranded overseas
XL customers currently overseas will be able to continue with their holidays as planned. We are currently organising the repatriation of customers who booked ATOL bonded packages and are stranded in Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria, Sardinia and Egypt and these flights will take place as close to the passengers original departure dates as possible. Our overseas teams will be working closely with the existing XL representatives in resort to facilitate the repatriation of customers back to the UK.
Passengers currently stranded overseas are advised in the first instance to visit the CAA website (Air Travel Organisers' Licensing | ATOL) or call +44 (0)2891856547. There will also be links from the XL website.
Further assistance available for those due to travel
First Choice and Thomson are committed to offering an alternative holiday to those XL customers that have booked an ATOL protected package or flight and are yet to travel. We are advising customers who booked direct, or through a First Choice or Thomson shop, to take their XL booking confirmation to any of our branches nationwide. Our experienced retail team will be able to arrange an alternative holiday from our wide range of destinations and assist with claiming the refund for their XL holiday or flight. Customers can therefore rebook to go to their original destination or an alternative simply by paying the difference in the package price if the cost is higher.
For those customers that have booked a First Choice or Thomson holiday with flights originally operated by XL, we will take them to their original destination via a flight with our in house airlines, Thomsonfly and First Choice Airways or, in instances where neither are available, an alternative airline with a travel associate. Should any travel arrangements be subject to change, our customer services team will proactively advise our customers in advance.
Those who have booked a holiday or flight with a travel agent other than First Choice or Thomson are advised to visit the travel agent that originally sold them the holiday, who will be able to look at all available First Choice or Thomson holiday options.
First Choice and Thomson have a dedicated helpline for those not near a First Choice or Thomson shop, which is as follows: Tel: 0871 231 5704
Background information:
All package holiday companies offering air inclusive arrangements must have an Air Travel Organisers Licence or ATOL, which ensures that consumers are repatriated or given a full refund if an airline collapses. This cover is usually not available when customers book separate flights and accommodation. A customer who books a scheduled flight direct with an airline is not given the same financial protection as those booked as part of a package.
Many consumers have a false sense of security, believing that their travel insurance will cover them if an airline fails, but usually, this is not the case. Credit card companies do offer some protection, but they will not repatriate passengers if they are abroad.
A recent survey of Thomson Holidays' customers found that over 90% of holidaymakers said that having their holiday financially protected was important to them but also found that consumers were confused with over 50% of holidaymakers still wrongly believing that booking a scheduled flight directly with an airline meant they were financially protected in the event of bankruptcy.
Despite a Government commitment to encourage scheduled airlines to communicate the fact that flight only bookings are not protected by the ATOL scheme, over 50% of passengers wrongly believed that having paid upfront for their flights in good faith, their money would be protected if the airline went bankrupt.
More detailed advice for customers:
XL Customers who booked direct
If you have booked a holiday or flight with one of these holiday companies direct (ie: not through a travel agent), please go to your local First Choice or Thomsone travel shop. In most cases they will be able to transfer the value of your booking to a new holiday with the minimum of fuss. Our retail staff will be able to then reclaim the value of your lost holiday.
XL Customers booked through a First Choice or Thomson Shop
If you have booked a holiday with one of these companies through a First Choice or Thomson Travel Shop, please go back to the shop where they will be able to help. In most cases we will be able to simply transfer the value of your holiday with the failed company onto another holiday. The travel agent will be able to then reclaim the value of your lost holiday.
XL Customers who booked with a travel agent
If you booked a holiday with one of these companies through any other high street travel agent brand please go back to see them. We are working closely with all UK travel agents on this issue and will in most cases be able to transfer your lost holiday value onto a First Choice or Thomson holiday with the minimum of fuss and no penalty.
In all cases customers should bring all the original documents and proof of payments made to the travel agent. This will help speed things up.
"Good luck for the future to all at XL and sister companies."
From the BBC website:
"There are 67,000 stranded who booked directly with XL, and another 23,000 who booked via other companies. The Civil Aviation Authority(CAA) also said the firm had 200,000 advance bookings. "
Apologies if I'm being niave here, but having little knowledge of the charter/package holiday business this seems an astonishingly low number of advance bookings, even heading from summer into the winter season (and assuming the numbers are correct...)
"There are 67,000 stranded who booked directly with XL, and another 23,000 who booked via other companies. The Civil Aviation Authority(CAA) also said the firm had 200,000 advance bookings. "
Apologies if I'm being niave here, but having little knowledge of the charter/package holiday business this seems an astonishingly low number of advance bookings, even heading from summer into the winter season (and assuming the numbers are correct...)
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Last night Sky news were reporting that XL planes were being clamped and that ground support vehicles were being used to 'box them in', I assume this is more sensationalism or are there a number of repo men hanging around Manchester waiting to fly these planes to destinations unknown....
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My humble opinion is that the Chief Exec could not have done any more. He ran a good airline, and treated his staff well. 
I think the banks acted in a short term way, because - as usual - there are concerned about the next three months profits and not the long term. (Unless of course they want bailing out and then it’s different.)
PS Don’t mean to start a debate on this, but Phil Wyatt was the first airline boss (that I know of), to stand up to the disgusting practice of 'forced repatriation', where refugees are forced to return to lovely countries like Zimbabwe. Good on you Phil.
I think the banks acted in a short term way, because - as usual - there are concerned about the next three months profits and not the long term. (Unless of course they want bailing out and then it’s different.)
PS Don’t mean to start a debate on this, but Phil Wyatt was the first airline boss (that I know of), to stand up to the disgusting practice of 'forced repatriation', where refugees are forced to return to lovely countries like Zimbabwe. Good on you Phil.
Last edited by Bridge Builder; 13th Sep 2008 at 07:59.
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It is all a bit dramatic. I recall at STN when ATL renoved the nose wheels from Donaldson's International 2 x 707's redsplendent in new ELAL livery. In those days there was also a 'lien' is that the word taped on the door warning of dire consequences if the a/c was touched.
The aircrafts surely belong to the lessors or the banks and the debts are now the responsibility of the administrators. I imagine the a/c will be moved to storage at Lasham and Southend asap, it would seem that they will be parked for a while as there would appear to be little if any work for them unless the lessors offer deals at silly prices.
Nothing much changes does it, I do not suppose those at the top will be out of pocket, the last 40 yeasr has seen them rise from the ashes usually without much delay with another money spinning outfit
Reading the on-line papers it appears that clearly to position the A330's out of harms way there was more than a little skullduggary.
The aircrafts surely belong to the lessors or the banks and the debts are now the responsibility of the administrators. I imagine the a/c will be moved to storage at Lasham and Southend asap, it would seem that they will be parked for a while as there would appear to be little if any work for them unless the lessors offer deals at silly prices.
Nothing much changes does it, I do not suppose those at the top will be out of pocket, the last 40 yeasr has seen them rise from the ashes usually without much delay with another money spinning outfit
Reading the on-line papers it appears that clearly to position the A330's out of harms way there was more than a little skullduggary.
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The administrators dont have that much rsponsibility for the existing debts, only those that are incurred as a result of what they do. There job is to maximise the funds going back to the lenders who have the first charge on the assets.
When they have done all they can then the liquidator will wind up the business if there is anything left. At the bottom of the pile for getting anything will be the shareholders.
As for giving notice, thats not practicable. If XL were to tell passengers to not book as they were in trouble then the business would be undermined and almost guarantee its failure (remember the run on Northern Rock). It is business as normal until you absolutely know its not.
Onced everyone has been sacked, then communication does become difficult and with something as big as this it is even more so with a range of agencies with different roles.
It is difficult when people are extremely disappointed and both passengers and staff often their have too high levels of expectations of what will be said done.
It is likely that all staff not needed by the administrator will have been laid off and had explained to them what will happen re outstanding wages etc.
Those needed to help the administrator go on his payroll and will have a view of how long that will be for.
The margins between success and failure can be very narrow and it does not take much to switch a business from being OK to being in trouble and that is often outside the control of anyone running the business.
Higher costs, tighter credit, a re-evaluation of risk, market sentiment and fears of recession all shift the business profile. XL moved from being a bankable proposition to one that was not.
It is tough and more will follow. The next big issues will be the difference between the ATOL backed passengers and those who are not. I suspect that the latter group will become bigger as the next round of failures hits.
Willie Walsh estimated 30 more before Christmas.
When they have done all they can then the liquidator will wind up the business if there is anything left. At the bottom of the pile for getting anything will be the shareholders.
As for giving notice, thats not practicable. If XL were to tell passengers to not book as they were in trouble then the business would be undermined and almost guarantee its failure (remember the run on Northern Rock). It is business as normal until you absolutely know its not.
Onced everyone has been sacked, then communication does become difficult and with something as big as this it is even more so with a range of agencies with different roles.
It is difficult when people are extremely disappointed and both passengers and staff often their have too high levels of expectations of what will be said done.
It is likely that all staff not needed by the administrator will have been laid off and had explained to them what will happen re outstanding wages etc.
Those needed to help the administrator go on his payroll and will have a view of how long that will be for.
The margins between success and failure can be very narrow and it does not take much to switch a business from being OK to being in trouble and that is often outside the control of anyone running the business.
Higher costs, tighter credit, a re-evaluation of risk, market sentiment and fears of recession all shift the business profile. XL moved from being a bankable proposition to one that was not.
It is tough and more will follow. The next big issues will be the difference between the ATOL backed passengers and those who are not. I suspect that the latter group will become bigger as the next round of failures hits.
Willie Walsh estimated 30 more before Christmas.
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'first charge' would normally be held by Ccustoms & Excise, Inland Revenue etc.
Generally, there is perilously little left after this for other creditors, be they secured or unsecured
Generally, there is perilously little left after this for other creditors, be they secured or unsecured
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Manrow, Phil Wyat has had the opportunity to present matters as he sees them.
And I would not wish to second-guess if there might be an alternative interpretation.
But in similar circumstances, there often is, and for my part I shall wait until more, informed opinions are known before being critical of those who seek to investigate this catastrophic business failure.
And I would not wish to second-guess if there might be an alternative interpretation.
But in similar circumstances, there often is, and for my part I shall wait until more, informed opinions are known before being critical of those who seek to investigate this catastrophic business failure.
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Bridge Builder
Only once it was exposed by the media that XL had made millions from the goverment doing them.
I myself did many on the 767 all over the world. I also know that the 737 did alot aswell.
So Phil isnt the great man you're trying to make out, when the press found out that the goverment were spending millions through XL on this practice he ran like the rat he is and took the moral high ground.
So Bridge Builder please try to be a little bit more informed before you start
Quoting CRAP as FACT.
If Phil is such a great man why have I still not been officialy told that I no longer have a job...and I won't be receiving a pay check this month.
I bet he isnt going to struggle with bills, I really dont know how this guy can look at himself in the mirror.
Phil Wyatt was the first airline boss (that I know of), to stand up to the disgusting practice of 'forced repatriation', where refugees are forced to return to lovely countries like Zimbabwe. Good on you Phil
I myself did many on the 767 all over the world. I also know that the 737 did alot aswell.
So Phil isnt the great man you're trying to make out, when the press found out that the goverment were spending millions through XL on this practice he ran like the rat he is and took the moral high ground.
So Bridge Builder please try to be a little bit more informed before you start
Quoting CRAP as FACT.
If Phil is such a great man why have I still not been officialy told that I no longer have a job...and I won't be receiving a pay check this month.
I bet he isnt going to struggle with bills, I really dont know how this guy can look at himself in the mirror.
Last edited by 3REDS; 13th Sep 2008 at 11:00.
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Really sorry to hear the sad news for all fellow pilots at XL.
I do know that Gulf Air are recruiting direct-entry F/Os for A320 and are looking for rated and non-rated pilots. See their website
Good luck
I do know that Gulf Air are recruiting direct-entry F/Os for A320 and are looking for rated and non-rated pilots. See their website
Good luck
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Not sure if someone has already mentioned it before, but it was a cruel irony that on the news just after a report on XL, there was a press conference showing the new West Ham manager. Behind him was a board with their sponsors...XL all over it amongst others!
Wishing all you guys the best of luck tho.
Wishing all you guys the best of luck tho.
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'first charge' would normally be held by Ccustoms & Excise, Inland Revenue etc. Generally, there is perilously little left after this for other creditors, be they secured or unsecured
Why all the criticism of Phil Wyatt?
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Although we all knew there were some coming, I was sorry to hear that XL was one of the early airlines to go down. Flew with them once on holiday, and they were far better than I expected of a charter airline. Maybe the extra cost involved in good customer service helped take them down. My sympathy to those affected.
Good luck everyone. Hope most of us keep flying through this one.
Good luck everyone. Hope most of us keep flying through this one.
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bridge builder
Something’s rotten, and I don’t think we’ll know the full story or a long while.
am truly sorry for all that have been affected by this sudden situation???
It stinks to high heaven, and agree that media should go do some serious investigating!!