ALDERNEY
Join Date: Jan 2008
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The island the the Trislander are certainly closely linked, but there will be a longer runway soon enough and there will probably be an extension to the terminal. Then there might even be interest in operating aircraft larger than 19/20 pax.
But for me the Tri is perfectly suited to the island hopping role, I would love to see more of them serving more routes!
But for me the Tri is perfectly suited to the island hopping role, I would love to see more of them serving more routes!
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Even if there is no suitable 16+seat replacement, there is always the Islander. For sure fares will have to go up with a smaller aircraft plying the routes, but the formula "no Tris no ACI" is a bit over the top, me thinks. After all, the Islander was used to start intra-CI flying in the late 1960s.
Join Date: Oct 2008
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If only someone at BN could look at updating the good old TRI with 300hp diesels, but they are heavier. I was watching the development of the Mistral engine with interest, but sadly that has stopped for the time being. Admittedly it was still avgas powered but compact, light and almost turbine smooth it looked really promising (see the demo video). 'Cos if they develop something to replace avgas like ethanol then it would work.
Yes, i know, all dreams - who is going to put all that money in, but you would think that with all the islanders around they would do something.
I thought i read on BN's website that they were looking at diesel replacement of the Lycoming?
Yes, i know, all dreams - who is going to put all that money in, but you would think that with all the islanders around they would do something.
I thought i read on BN's website that they were looking at diesel replacement of the Lycoming?
Join Date: Mar 1999
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Indeed it was VB. The Tri was developed at Aurigny's request, because the economics on an Islander didn't and still don't work (I flew one for Air Sarnia for a time before 'going Yellow'). That was true then and it's true now, I'm afraid. I stick by what I said, no Tri no ACI. And before any body mentions Caravans, forget it, never happen. Same for Carribou and other similar museum pieces. The harsh reality is that the routes out of Aci will not support the introduction of a new aircraft type. Even if the runway is extended (a big if, been talked about for 20 years) you still have weather related problems. Bigger/faster aircraft means higher minima (and more/close monitoring of adherence to those minima ~ my ex-colleagues will know exactly what I'm talking about 
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Would that mean, for example, that Skybus is burning money on its Islander-operated LEQ-ISC route which at 31mi is pretty much like ACI-GCI (26mi)?
IMHO, no aircraft per se can be deemed "uneconomical" no matter what. Economics are defined by what income you can generate with the aircraft. So the question is how much an airline could charge. Fares would need to go up, of course, but I don't see why it would be the end of the world without the Tris. All over the world islands are connected with 8-19 seaters that are not Trislanders.
IMHO, no aircraft per se can be deemed "uneconomical" no matter what. Economics are defined by what income you can generate with the aircraft. So the question is how much an airline could charge. Fares would need to go up, of course, but I don't see why it would be the end of the world without the Tris. All over the world islands are connected with 8-19 seaters that are not Trislanders.
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fudpucker, IMHO, i'm not so sure. between '68 and '71, Aurigny did rather nicely with the Islander, operating inter-island as well as from '70 onwards the Southampton. And they turned profits and expanded nicely. Yes, that was 40 years ago, but the only variable is the price of fuel. safe flying, AM 
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AM. Quite true, but consider there was no opposition and a grass runway. At the first opportunity they tried to get a larger aircraft operating the route.VB; what you say is true, you could operate a Tornado as a passenger aircraft, but the ticket cost would be astronomical, wouldn't it? I would therefore say that a Tornado would make an uneconomic pax aircraft. Aurigny tried an Otter, but couldn't make it pay. Why? Operating costs were such that the ticket price had to go up or they operated at a loss. The Scillies run? There is a very short strip which requires a STOL aircraft, Otters or Islanders. Routes like that you can charge higher prices. Having lived (briefly) and operated frequently (oh those luvverly winter days with the howling crosswinds and the entertaining turbulence departing off 26) in and out of ACI for a couple of companies, I can say with certainty that the ACI-ites are very price conscious. Jack up the prices and loads will plummet. Plummeting loads= higher ticket price or go bust. Alternatively, you can charge a lower price and hope to fill the aircraft; everybody thinks it's wonderful but the net result is lower ticket prices= go bust. Seen it, done it, got the T shirt. Oh, before anybody mentions Ryanair, they have a few more seats to play around with so can offer a wide range of discounted tickets.
PS
AM, not flying now, I'm sailing. Much better if slightly slower
PS
AM, not flying now, I'm sailing. Much better if slightly slower
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Not sure that I am convinced. I don't think the situation at St. Mary's is that different. The runway may be shorter, but choices at Alderney are apparently not that much greater if even the Dornier 228 cannot make it. Why should an airline be able to charge a premium there just because it operates from a shorter runway? That does not define the willingness of the customer base to pay a certain price. What defines prices is the need to get off the island, the alternative modes of transportation, competition between airlines etc. That said, the environment at the Scillies is much more challenging as there is a competing daily ferry service on a proper ferry and a competing helicopter service.
The Skybus fare targeted at locals between St. Mary's and St. Just is 125 GBP return, whereas Aurigny between Guernsey and Alderney currently is at 88 GBP. Southampton on Aurigny is 216 GBP, Exeter on Skybus is 230-260 GBP. Not cheap, but it is not as if you could travel on Aurigny more or less for free just because of the Trislander. So will the islanders stay at home if prices go up? Maybe a few will, but because the Islander only has half the capacity, that would not make it impossible to make a service viable. If you have four Trislander flights today, you could have six Islander flights and still would have slashed capacity by a quarter.
After all, Alderney is an island. The locals may be price-conscious, but realistically, their choices are limited if they ever want to leave the island. I would agree, of course, that demand is higher in the Southwest, but three or four Islander flights a day do not seem to be impossible to fill.
The Skybus fare targeted at locals between St. Mary's and St. Just is 125 GBP return, whereas Aurigny between Guernsey and Alderney currently is at 88 GBP. Southampton on Aurigny is 216 GBP, Exeter on Skybus is 230-260 GBP. Not cheap, but it is not as if you could travel on Aurigny more or less for free just because of the Trislander. So will the islanders stay at home if prices go up? Maybe a few will, but because the Islander only has half the capacity, that would not make it impossible to make a service viable. If you have four Trislander flights today, you could have six Islander flights and still would have slashed capacity by a quarter.
After all, Alderney is an island. The locals may be price-conscious, but realistically, their choices are limited if they ever want to leave the island. I would agree, of course, that demand is higher in the Southwest, but three or four Islander flights a day do not seem to be impossible to fill.
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Sure.
But fudpucker is suggesting that once the Trislander goes, scheduled services from ACI will disappear completely, while my point is that services may become more expensive, less frequent and on smaller aircraft, there will still be flights, i.e. not everything depends on the Trislander.
To put things in perspective, the cheapest (round-trip-based) fare from St. Mary's to St. Just is 32,50 GBP one-way on Skybus, and there are last-minute day return fares on the BIH helicopter for as little as 25 GBP one-way.
But fudpucker is suggesting that once the Trislander goes, scheduled services from ACI will disappear completely, while my point is that services may become more expensive, less frequent and on smaller aircraft, there will still be flights, i.e. not everything depends on the Trislander.
To put things in perspective, the cheapest (round-trip-based) fare from St. Mary's to St. Just is 32,50 GBP one-way on Skybus, and there are last-minute day return fares on the BIH helicopter for as little as 25 GBP one-way.
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Satnav Approach
Has anyone any info as to how the trial of the new RNAV/GNSSS Satnav assisted approach system is progressing? I understand its fitted to one of Aurigny's Trislanders
Has anyone on this forum experienced an approach with it yet?
Has anyone on this forum experienced an approach with it yet?
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Trislander replacement
I've never flown into Alderney but it strikes me as strange that aircraft such as the Dornier 228 could not operate the route? They operate into Lukla in Nepal which is on a sheer clift face and the runway is at a sharp gradient! Surely if it can operate there then Alderney would be a piece of cake?
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Its down to cost. Yes the 228 would get in and out of ACI no problem but in the UK it would be two crew operation against the Tri which is single crew. Also no Jet A1 on Alderney also the 228 would take longer to turnround who can remember the number of rotations that the props need after shut down to ensure even cooling.
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All good points xtypeman but just because there are a few snags doesn't mean it can't be a possibility. Again i'll use the example of Lukla in Nepal, (google it by the way if your not familiar with it) if they can get Jet A1 fuel at the top of a mountain then they should be able to at Alderney surely! I don't think there is an issue of Tris replacement, when they need replacing there should be plenty of 2nd hand dornier 228's and Twin Otters at a reasonable price. Aurigny are just going to run them into the ground in the meantime. Good ridence when they do bite the dust though!
Why should availability of JetA1 be a constraint? The 228 can comfortably round-trip fuel on SOU-ACI or GCI-ACI. And as for two pilots - there is definitely a cost, but if you weigh up the hourly DOC savings on fuel and maintenance achieved on the faster 228 versus the Trislander, I'm sure it would pay for a second pilot several times over!
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228s and Twotters are certainly a possibility in the future but given that O-540s can run on mogas, there is no reason that the Trislanders can't be kept going for some time (subject to EASA rules). xtypeman isn't saying why the Trislander can't be replaced, he is saying why it is not yet ecomically viable to replace the Trislander.
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Nice to have a well balanced and enlightened view from a new ppruner - Rivet Joint - don't see that spending a lot of time and effort upgrading the avionics is "running them into the ground".
And why good riddance to them - isn't that a bit harsh? They have been serving the islands for 40 years and still doing a pretty good job by the looks of things.
The GPS (Garmin 430) is in 2 a/c and the other 4 will have the latest Garmin 750 fitted - which will then be fitted to the first 2 in order to standardise the fleet.
Also in the pipeline is the fitting of an EHSI and EADI.
All of this will bring them in line with the latest regs - as i said before, hardly running them into the ground.
Some people say if you have nothing good to say then say nothing. You could try this maybe?
And why good riddance to them - isn't that a bit harsh? They have been serving the islands for 40 years and still doing a pretty good job by the looks of things.
The GPS (Garmin 430) is in 2 a/c and the other 4 will have the latest Garmin 750 fitted - which will then be fitted to the first 2 in order to standardise the fleet.
Also in the pipeline is the fitting of an EHSI and EADI.
All of this will bring them in line with the latest regs - as i said before, hardly running them into the ground.
Some people say if you have nothing good to say then say nothing. You could try this maybe?
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Tris replacement
Tin Canary my post was merely 'my view' just like your post was 'your view' on my post. Maybe you should look into freedom of speech, lets face it without it then there wouldn't be such a thing as a forum 
I'm sure the tri's do a very good job but this is the 21st century and updating the avionics etc I would imagine is only taking place because its the cheap option. I say good ridence because they are a nuisance due to their speed or lack there of and noise, indeed I was woken up by one this morning
I'm sure the tri's do a very good job but this is the 21st century and updating the avionics etc I would imagine is only taking place because its the cheap option. I say good ridence because they are a nuisance due to their speed or lack there of and noise, indeed I was woken up by one this morning