Alitalia
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you'll find that the Irish-registered aircraft are not owned by Alitalia but leased to it, usually by Irish-based aircraft lessors.
This isn't unique to Italy - for example in Russia a lot of leased aircraft are registered EI- or VP-B.
contrary to what en2r says, I don't believe that this is for flight duty reasons (Alitalia, Aeroflot etc don't have Irish AOCs after all!) but rather because in some jurisdictions, lessors find it legally easier to repossess foreign-registered aircraft in the event of a default by the airline.
And if you are an Irish-based leasing firm which owns an aircraft that's going to be leased to various carriers over its life, it's easier for you to keep it registered with your "local" CAA throughout its life.
This isn't unique to Italy - for example in Russia a lot of leased aircraft are registered EI- or VP-B.
contrary to what en2r says, I don't believe that this is for flight duty reasons (Alitalia, Aeroflot etc don't have Irish AOCs after all!) but rather because in some jurisdictions, lessors find it legally easier to repossess foreign-registered aircraft in the event of a default by the airline.
And if you are an Irish-based leasing firm which owns an aircraft that's going to be leased to various carriers over its life, it's easier for you to keep it registered with your "local" CAA throughout its life.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New livery for AZ!!!
Do you think that they think this will really help them in their recent financial struggles? Looks very similar to the old one though.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ta/I-DACN2.jpg
Do you think that they think this will really help them in their recent financial struggles? Looks very similar to the old one though.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ta/I-DACN2.jpg
Last edited by Smile!!!; 23rd Oct 2006 at 06:48.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Middle Drawer
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alitalia to be bought out????
I heard today that Alitalia is possibly the subject of a take over bid by Air France. Consideration given to the partnering of KLM with Air France, will the successful acquisition of Alitalia eventually lead to a European super Airline? Or, will it lead to a French controlled airline industry with little room for expansion by other European based airlines.
This is not a slate the French question but one that I think does require debate.
Many Regards
TW
This is not a slate the French question but one that I think does require debate.
Many Regards
TW
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There may well be three large blocks - AF/KL/AZ, LH/LX (possibly OS too) and then BA/IB, with smaller carriers like AY, EI, VS etc. remaining independent.
As far as AZ is concerned, this is "last chance saloon", so if the airline's unions mess this up, that's it; I think that a major part of any deal with AZ will be getting approval of the airline's unions and ensure that the extent of the surgery necessary is fully understood and accepted before the sale goes through.
As far as AZ is concerned, this is "last chance saloon", so if the airline's unions mess this up, that's it; I think that a major part of any deal with AZ will be getting approval of the airline's unions and ensure that the extent of the surgery necessary is fully understood and accepted before the sale goes through.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Africa & 71 32S 8 48E
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jean-Cyril Spinetta stressed today that no discussions or negotiations have taken place with regard to a forthcoming merger with Italian carrier Alitalia.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There has been ongoing media discussion about this for months, however many believe it unlikely that a healthy, listed airline has any interest in an ailing mess such as Alitalia. Many reports are probably fanciful thinking of those in Italy who have yet to come to terms with the flag carrier's demise.
However, stranger things have happened - if it is taken over, it is unlikely to survive in its current form.
If I were in an Alitalia union, I would continue to milk it, as the useless Italian governments have shown themselves to be prepared to support it at almost any cost!
However, stranger things have happened - if it is taken over, it is unlikely to survive in its current form.
If I were in an Alitalia union, I would continue to milk it, as the useless Italian governments have shown themselves to be prepared to support it at almost any cost!
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Coastal
Posts: 527
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air France-KLM Slides on Alitalia Deal Talk
The companies' reported merger discussions prompted two brokerages to downgrade the Franco-Dutch carrier
Could another major airline industry merger be taking shape -- this time in Europe? According to press reports Nov. 24, one of the items on the agenda in a meeting between Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi and French President Jacques Chirac was a possible merger of Air France-KLM (AKH) and Italian state-controlled carrier Alitalia. But market watchers appeared to take a dim view of the prospects for such a deal.
http://www.businessweek.com/investor...tm?chan=search
Could another major airline industry merger be taking shape -- this time in Europe? According to press reports Nov. 24, one of the items on the agenda in a meeting between Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi and French President Jacques Chirac was a possible merger of Air France-KLM (AKH) and Italian state-controlled carrier Alitalia. But market watchers appeared to take a dim view of the prospects for such a deal.
http://www.businessweek.com/investor...tm?chan=search
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: england
Age: 47
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please forgive me for intruding.
I'm neither an airline pilot or journo!
But surely the proposed merger between Air France/KLM and Alitalia would have implications with the monopolies and mergers department at the EU??
With one giant airline group controlling a large percentage of european air traffic, surely that should raise some red flags with the beaurocrats?
I'm neither an airline pilot or journo!
But surely the proposed merger between Air France/KLM and Alitalia would have implications with the monopolies and mergers department at the EU??
With one giant airline group controlling a large percentage of european air traffic, surely that should raise some red flags with the beaurocrats?
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Malta
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see your point but they are not going to have a monopoly in either Holland, France or Italy if they join up. Sure they will have a significant percentage of traffic but quite a lot of competition would still remain in Europe.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alitalia has got to be a black hole for money. the bean counters must know this and the Italian goverment has to sort out the mess which is called Italy before any one in their right mind would go any where near it. Shares heading down on news of no tie up.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: by the river
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Monopoly status
It is usually considered by the authorities that 30 to 33% of the market constitutes the starting point of a possible monopoly.
Hardly likely that AF/KL/DL/NW/CO and Alitalia have that percentage of the European market, is it? After all with One world, Star Alliance, Ryan and Easy + the little chaps there must be 70% stacked up against them.
Anyway Spinny is not CRAZY - he knows how bad the AZ finances are and he can't afford to bail them out.
Hardly likely that AF/KL/DL/NW/CO and Alitalia have that percentage of the European market, is it? After all with One world, Star Alliance, Ryan and Easy + the little chaps there must be 70% stacked up against them.
Anyway Spinny is not CRAZY - he knows how bad the AZ finances are and he can't afford to bail them out.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem is the frog goverment is getting involved withe all this as well as bailing out the flying bus company with all their problems. Dont forget, the frogs make the rules but they dont play by them. The rules are for every one else, Froglands forever and to hell with every one else. 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They probably don't have that much of the total European market, but you can bet they have far more than that fraction of the France<-->Italy market (for example). So a competition ruling might insist that they surrender some of the slots they use for these routes, with the proviso that these slots are to be awarded to competitors to increase choice between (e.g.) CDG and MXP.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: by the river
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cyrano
Right of course but probably only if the airports in question have NO slots left and the routes are identical !
taffman
Too true, but we don't want to be racially predu... do we - so we can't say that, we can only think it ......
Watch that governmental space now....
Right of course but probably only if the airports in question have NO slots left and the routes are identical !
taffman
Too true, but we don't want to be racially predu... do we - so we can't say that, we can only think it ......
Watch that governmental space now....
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Middle Drawer
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does this not get to my post about the possibilty of the French trying to dominate the market by using KLM and Alitalia as a foothold?
Having worked for the French production wise on the A380 project, It has become apparent that the French are intent on centralising the total aviation industry within France.
As far as the French are concerned, airbus is French and French only, not a european project, or is that just clever marketing. not sure.
The whole debacle with EADS, the French government and now the possible buyout of alitalia, smacks of the French putting their fingers into too many pies for the self serving French government.
IIRC, Fokker was bankrupted due to French interference and I can see the same happening to KLM and Alitalia and Airbus.
TW
Having worked for the French production wise on the A380 project, It has become apparent that the French are intent on centralising the total aviation industry within France.
As far as the French are concerned, airbus is French and French only, not a european project, or is that just clever marketing. not sure.
The whole debacle with EADS, the French government and now the possible buyout of alitalia, smacks of the French putting their fingers into too many pies for the self serving French government.
IIRC, Fokker was bankrupted due to French interference and I can see the same happening to KLM and Alitalia and Airbus.
TW
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't you think you're going a bit OTT. The French are intensely patriotic but the same can be said about the Americans, Italians, Irish etc. KLM is a hugely profitable company and there isn't the slightest chance of them going bankrupt in the near future. As for Airbus a lot of their problems have been caused by constant infighting within the organisation, and its not true to say that the French are the source of all their problems. As for Alitalia, I'd say if they had a choice they wouldn't touch it with a barge pole but Jacque Chirac wants to do a favour to Romano Prodi by saving the jobs of all the Alitalia workers. The French Government do still own 19% of Air France and have significant sway within the company.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland nowadays
Posts: 1,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Italy to give up control of Alitalia
Italy’s government said on Friday it would give up its controlling stake in Alitalia, the loss-making national airline, and officials said it was willing in principle to sell its entire 49.9 per cent shareholding.
Immediately after the announcement, Alitalia shares soared by more than 15 per cent to €0.98 in Milan trading, the biggest and fastest gain for the stock since the airline received a €1bn ($1.3bn, £673m) capital injection last year.
Italy’s government said on Friday it would give up its controlling stake in Alitalia, the loss-making national airline, and officials said it was willing in principle to sell its entire 49.9 per cent shareholding.
Immediately after the announcement, Alitalia shares soared by more than 15 per cent to €0.98 in Milan trading, the biggest and fastest gain for the stock since the airline received a €1bn ($1.3bn, £673m) capital injection last year.
