COVENTRY
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Originally Posted by OCEAN WUN ZERO
65000 + pa movements mean it is a real airport or is it that the G/A element of that total is not 'real' aviation.
However - CAS is there for the protection of Air Transport Movements, and Coventry doesn't have enough to warrant that protection yet. There are sufficient airports within the Coventry catchment area (Birmingham, East Midlands, Luton and Bristol) where CAS is already well established. Maybe this is an occasion where operators should re-locate their operation if they want that protection, rather than inflicting more unrequired CAS in an already complex area of the country. CAS for Coventry would effectively be the establishment of CAS for one single, relatively small operation at the site - a situation which is unacceptable and shouldn't be allowed to go through.
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'However - CAS is there for the protection of Air Transport Movements,'
IBTD CAS is establised to provide a known traffic environment and provide protection for ALL users at critical phases of flight.
IBTD CAS is establised to provide a known traffic environment and provide protection for ALL users at critical phases of flight.
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Originally Posted by OCEAN WUN ZERO
IBTD CAS is establised to provide a known traffic environment and provide protection for ALL users at critical phases of flight.
Now - looking at the Coventry website I see 13 ATM's between 0600 & 2000 tomorrow (tuesday). Hardly justification for 24Hr Class 'D' on the large scale they are requesting is it?
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CAP 725
chapter 2 Page 4
6.2 Change Sponsors must note that the cornerstone of any justification for the
establishment of, or increase to, controlled airspace will be an assessment of the
'threat' posed to the continued safety of operation resulting from the retention of the
current airspace structure
No mention of numbers of ATM's
chapter 2 Page 4
6.2 Change Sponsors must note that the cornerstone of any justification for the
establishment of, or increase to, controlled airspace will be an assessment of the
'threat' posed to the continued safety of operation resulting from the retention of the
current airspace structure
No mention of numbers of ATM's
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Obviously the 'threat' posed goes up with increased movement numbers. ATM's or otherwise.
I still think my theory on page 1 of this thread is not so wacky - creating large numbers of nearly no risk airprox reports is what generates a case for controlled airspace.
I still think my theory on page 1 of this thread is not so wacky - creating large numbers of nearly no risk airprox reports is what generates a case for controlled airspace.
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Some local business men are apparently looking at starting a small airline out of Coventry. Looking to fly a Jetstream 41 (or possibly the smaller 31) or an Embraer Brasilia on domestic routes from Coventry which are understood to be Norwich, Plymouth/Exeter, Southampton/Bournemouth & possibly Doncaster/Humberside.
It certianly sounds ambitious & will be competing against a frequent Rail service on some of the routes if the plans ever come to fruitition. I know Exeter & Norwich were previously served from Birmingham but I don't know if they were succesful? Presumably chosen Cov' to Brum due to Coventry being cheaper?
WNC
It certianly sounds ambitious & will be competing against a frequent Rail service on some of the routes if the plans ever come to fruitition. I know Exeter & Norwich were previously served from Birmingham but I don't know if they were succesful? Presumably chosen Cov' to Brum due to Coventry being cheaper?
WNC
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As good as it would be, I doubt CVT-DSA or CVT-HUY would work. Its not that far by car and the rail service from the West Midlands to Sheffield and Doncaster is good
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Safety is one of the main reasons for justification of additional controlled airspace. Are the current users of the airspace in the vicinity of Coventry operating in a 'fully safe' environment. Remember, controlled airspace protects all users, both GA and commercial.
It is in the interests of all users to have airspace that can safely contain their respective flights.
New airspace must be justified, so the number of incidents reported will add weight or otherwise to any serious application. To simply state that commercial flights need the protection of controlled airspace is not acceptable to the CAA. A robust case by the proposer must be submitted, with detailed reasoning and proof of in depth consultation. Objectors must reasonably state a case, which will be examined in detail by the regulator.
It is in the interests of all users to have airspace that can safely contain their respective flights.
New airspace must be justified, so the number of incidents reported will add weight or otherwise to any serious application. To simply state that commercial flights need the protection of controlled airspace is not acceptable to the CAA. A robust case by the proposer must be submitted, with detailed reasoning and proof of in depth consultation. Objectors must reasonably state a case, which will be examined in detail by the regulator.
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Originally Posted by airhumberside
As good as it would be, I doubt CVT-DSA or CVT-HUY would work. Its not that far by car and the rail service from the West Midlands to Sheffield and Doncaster is good
Rob
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Coventry
A little birdy tells me that a new airline might be interested in CVT, I don't think TUI related.
Could one of the northern airlines be heading south (but I don't think GSM yet), or is this another European airline coming in - Wizz perhaps?
Could one of the northern airlines be heading south (but I don't think GSM yet), or is this another European airline coming in - Wizz perhaps?
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Ian,
A joint announcement would be pretty rare wouldn't it, airlines don't usually like to share the stage with each other, or could they be related companies?
Are you able to elaborate further?
Haven't been up there for a while, but is there room for based units? IIRC, they have enough stands for 8 x B737, but the terminal is a very tight squeeze for early morning departures.
Wasn't Phil Meeson pally with previous management, so I think Jet2 @ CVT has been speculated before, but much of their route network overlaps TOMs, so would they also look east from CVT, or link up their other bases - do we need another airline serving BFS?
About time we saw BUD, WAW etc served from this part of the world. With FR's announcement yesterday, expected new WW routes from BHX, and possibly EMA too, things are about to get very interesting.
A joint announcement would be pretty rare wouldn't it, airlines don't usually like to share the stage with each other, or could they be related companies?
Are you able to elaborate further?
Haven't been up there for a while, but is there room for based units? IIRC, they have enough stands for 8 x B737, but the terminal is a very tight squeeze for early morning departures.
Wasn't Phil Meeson pally with previous management, so I think Jet2 @ CVT has been speculated before, but much of their route network overlaps TOMs, so would they also look east from CVT, or link up their other bases - do we need another airline serving BFS?
About time we saw BUD, WAW etc served from this part of the world. With FR's announcement yesterday, expected new WW routes from BHX, and possibly EMA too, things are about to get very interesting.
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FR have probably been too busy focusing their efforts on competing with Aer Lingus. Either that, or Coventry are charging too much.
TOM probably wouldn't dare launch DUB in the fear that FR would plonk a base in Conventry to punish TOM for having tried to encroach on the UK/Ireland market
TOM probably wouldn't dare launch DUB in the fear that FR would plonk a base in Conventry to punish TOM for having tried to encroach on the UK/Ireland market
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MOL has been asked before about CVT, and his initial reply was that FR already had ops there, which they did back in the days when they were using 1-11s. FR's recent expansion from EMA, combined with their DUB-BHX rotations, which I presume get better yields after the frequency drop, would make CVT one of the least likely places to become a Ryanairport, however quaint the terminal is! MOL's presence during the battles with the nimbys would have certainly added a bit more colour to the debate.
Wycombe, I'm no expert on the calculations, but my understanding is that an FR 737-800 would have similar probs to the LDY situation, whereas a 737-700NG, or '800 configured for short field performance might be ok. Have often wondered how many other airports out there FR could get into if they acquired a few of these models, but I don't think it would suit the way they like to move units around between their different bases.
All speculation so far has been about jet based operators, so how about some turboprops coming in? BE seem pretty focused on BHX, but WOW & RE have no presence in Midlands atm. Was RE's previous withdrawal from BHX down to yields or slots?
Could see either of these doing CVT-NQY, or RE doing KIR, SNN - even PIK as an outsider, or INV if BE don't pull their finger out?
Wycombe, I'm no expert on the calculations, but my understanding is that an FR 737-800 would have similar probs to the LDY situation, whereas a 737-700NG, or '800 configured for short field performance might be ok. Have often wondered how many other airports out there FR could get into if they acquired a few of these models, but I don't think it would suit the way they like to move units around between their different bases.
All speculation so far has been about jet based operators, so how about some turboprops coming in? BE seem pretty focused on BHX, but WOW & RE have no presence in Midlands atm. Was RE's previous withdrawal from BHX down to yields or slots?
Could see either of these doing CVT-NQY, or RE doing KIR, SNN - even PIK as an outsider, or INV if BE don't pull their finger out?
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New Routes
I think anybody such as JET2 or of the same ilk will look at the
CAA stats for the existing routes (including the withdrawn services)
and that should make them think twice.
TOM's Malaga, Palma, Alicante, Valencia and Faro have fairly good
load factors and so does Jersey and Amsterdam at times but others
have struggled and I am not talking just winter.
The only two airlines I could see making a success as a base is FR
and EZY. As previously mentioned FR is probably a non-starter
due to runway and I doubt Easyjet would open a base at
Coventry when East Mids is hardly setting the world on fire.
I am surprised that FR have not moved the BHX Dublin flights to
Coventry and I hope that this is one of the possible two.
I don't like to see BHX losing any flights but this one would
be sweet (a win win situation) and I would be pleased for Coventry.
However BHX would need a replacement and I am not sure
Baby would that interested in BHX-DUB.
As for Aer Arran, who can read their minds? BHX - LDY had
poor loads and had to go. Galway and Cork did reasonably
well pax wise all year round, so I suppose it was poor yields.
However there was talk that Arran moved the aircraft
as they got incentives on other routes - no idea if true
or not.
Pete
CAA stats for the existing routes (including the withdrawn services)
and that should make them think twice.
TOM's Malaga, Palma, Alicante, Valencia and Faro have fairly good
load factors and so does Jersey and Amsterdam at times but others
have struggled and I am not talking just winter.
The only two airlines I could see making a success as a base is FR
and EZY. As previously mentioned FR is probably a non-starter
due to runway and I doubt Easyjet would open a base at
Coventry when East Mids is hardly setting the world on fire.
I am surprised that FR have not moved the BHX Dublin flights to
Coventry and I hope that this is one of the possible two.
I don't like to see BHX losing any flights but this one would
be sweet (a win win situation) and I would be pleased for Coventry.
However BHX would need a replacement and I am not sure
Baby would that interested in BHX-DUB.
As for Aer Arran, who can read their minds? BHX - LDY had
poor loads and had to go. Galway and Cork did reasonably
well pax wise all year round, so I suppose it was poor yields.
However there was talk that Arran moved the aircraft
as they got incentives on other routes - no idea if true
or not.
Pete
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As for Aer Arran, who can read their minds? BHX - LDY had
poor loads and had to go. Galway and Cork did reasonably
well pax wise all year round, so I suppose it was poor yields.
However there was talk that Arran moved the aircraft
as they got incentives on other routes - no idea if true
or not.
Pete
Any chance of a based operator such as Air Atlantique starting routes from CVT with ATR's, they already operate STN-JER
FC
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Can an A320 operate fully loaded with 180 pax from Coventry to Poland, if it can under all weather conditions, Coventry might be a Wizz option possibly?