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Cityjet

Old 27th Oct 2016, 08:23
  #781 (permalink)  
 
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SEN

Announced today 4 aircraft base at SEN from April 2017, up to 18 new routes delivering 600,000 passengers per year.
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 09:19
  #782 (permalink)  
 
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Wonder if they'll move the Antwerp service from LCY to (a) free up LCY slots for something more profitable (more DUB possibly?) and (b) nullify need to wet lease from DAT since VLM's demise? The ANR off peak services have certainly been fairly lightly loaded recently and it's a fare sensitive route - Pax originating from north east and east London would have little problem getting to SEN from Liverpool St or Stratford.
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 10:03
  #783 (permalink)  
 
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The loads on SEN-ANR just a couple of years ago would suggest it isn't particularly attractive. The problem with that route is that once you remove the flight from LCY you remove the benefit of getting straight into London. Otherwise people might as well just get the train to Brussels and connect to Eurostar.
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 10:08
  #784 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, agreed. Krakow would be a much better choice. Malta must be a certainty...?
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 13:54
  #785 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed, the ANR route only works because it connects to LCY. There's a decent mix of leisure and business passengers on that route which wasn't the case at all when Flybe used to fly into SEN. Also, any plane with more than 50 seats is just too much for ANR, so even if they did switch to SEN they still couldn't do it with their own metal.
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 16:34
  #786 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Avnu View Post
Indeed, the ANR route only works because it connects to LCY. There's a decent mix of leisure and business passengers on that route which wasn't the case at all when Flybe used to fly into SEN. Also, any plane with more than 50 seats is just too much for ANR, so even if they did switch to SEN they still couldn't do it with their own metal.
True - but I'm thinking about the new combined CityJet/Stobart fleet including the ATRs and the now lack of competition from LCY,(or in fact, anywhere) to ANR. All of the above is true Avnu, I'm just idly speculating on best use of slots at a busy and expensive LCY when you now have a second cheaper hub to play with down the road.
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 17:01
  #787 (permalink)  
 
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The money is made on Antwerp (and indeed other LCY routes) from business and commercial contacts with Central London, not any eastern suburbs which might be towards Southend. The Antwerp diamond traders who go to and fro with their colleagues in Hatton Garden are not going to be impressed with somewhere another 2 hours east down the A13 (which it is in the evening rush hour traffic). And if you think they are going to squash into a standing-room-only train out of Liverpool Street, you've got another think coming.
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 17:13
  #788 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
The money is made on Antwerp (and indeed other LCY routes) from business and commercial contacts with Central London, not any eastern suburbs which might be towards Southend. The Antwerp diamond traders who go to and fro with their colleagues in Hatton Garden are not going to be impressed with somewhere another 2 hours east down the A13 (which it is in the evening rush hour traffic). And if you think they are going to squash into a standing-room-only train out of Liverpool Street, you've got another think coming.
Possibly. But the vast majority I speak to are coming to/from home in Stamford Hill together with their families and are driven to/from the airport. Southend may well be further but, outside of rush hours, it's a scant hour extra from the North Circular. If the price is right.... It may well be diamond business oriented for some but there is a huge amount of VFR traffic between the two Hassidic communities in London and Antwerp not to mention a surprisingly high number of Anglo-Belgian families such as mine, a legacy of WW2 even after all these years! Anyway, I'm not pushing it - it was only speculation on my part this morning when I read the forum update. Odds are then it will stay at LCY.
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 18:16
  #789 (permalink)  
 
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Pure speculation on my part but Derry could be a good bet. It's about to be left without a London service and a 100 seater a couple of times a day could work well. Especially if the aircraft started and finished the day in Derry.
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 19:24
  #790 (permalink)  
 
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Very strange move. SOU would have been a better bet for them.
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 20:32
  #791 (permalink)  
 
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Why is it so strange, they are buying Stobart Air so why would Stobart sell to them only for Cityjet to base at SOU when Stobart own SEN. it's clearly part of the deal that they open a base at SEN. Nothing strange about it whatsoever.
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 21:26
  #792 (permalink)  
 
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SSJ EI-FWA found itself scheduled on today's WX122 Dublin - LCY flight, small problem, the SSJ isn't certified into LCY yet so after a while holding over Cambridge it ended up at Stansted with pax being bussed to Liverpool St/LCY.
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Old 27th Oct 2016, 22:42
  #793 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not at all surprised an airline would want to try SEN. It's an airport that offers good prospects to the right airline.
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 00:15
  #794 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not at all surprised an airline would want to try SEN. It's an airport that offers good prospects to the right airline.
There is a big difference between "want" and "must" try SEN.
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 04:27
  #795 (permalink)  
 
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SSJ EI-FWA found itself scheduled on today's WX122 Dublin - LCY flight, small problem, the SSJ isn't certified into LCY yet so after a while holding over Cambridge it ended up at Stansted with pax being bussed to Liverpool St/LCY.
The aircraft was never going to land at LCY. Shortage of aircraft required the WX122 to operate in to STN for obvious reasons. It's not as if the crew realised that airborne
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 05:08
  #796 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
There is a big difference between "want" and "must" try SEN.
Well there are airlines that have things they "must" do; but CityJet is not one of them. It is an airline looking for niches to fill.
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 10:21
  #797 (permalink)  
 
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Don't you think that they have been 'pushed' towards SEN though, rather than proactively wanting to "try" it?
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 12:05
  #798 (permalink)  
V_2
 
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Clearly the SSJ is not going to be steep approach certified so it's time for Cityjet to try somewhere new. Southend is a move that makes sense but when 2/3s of its catchment area is water it's always going to be a tough ask.
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 12:08
  #799 (permalink)  
 
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I assume part of Stobart's support for the deal is that they have been guaranteed that WX will operate from SEN.
To be fair, both parties need this to work. WX need to prove that the SSJ can work in the western regional market and Stobart need to prove that SEN is a viable airport - despite its restrictions.

The initial opinion on SEN seemed to be very positive, now posters seem to take delight that it is taking time to find its place in the market. Remember that if it werent from Ryanair and, laterally, Go STN would be a much different place than it is today. New airports take time to develop and the SSJ seems like the perfect size aircraft to cater for SEN right now.
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 13:06
  #800 (permalink)  
 
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V_2

With respect the much repeated assertion that part of SEN's catchment 'radius' is water rather misses the point. The fact is that SEN has a population of 5.4 million living within 60 minutes drive of the airport and provided suitable routes are chosen that is quite adequate to make them a success. The fact that SEN can support an AMS route that offers a capacity of up to 540 daily outbound seats proves the point.

Brian Dromey is correct in saying that WX need to show the market that the SSJ is an attractive and reliable aircraft prior to its introduction at LCY in 2018. It should be well suited to the longer sectors from SEN with its speed and high service ceiling making it ideal for routes that might not support the larger A319/320.
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