HEATHROW
Here's why
Thank you for the (two) replies. The reason I asked the question is that I've been on one of the trial days at T5. Prior to going I'd been reading comments from BA and the BAA about new processes and a better experience so I was really hopeful.
Now, I have to admit that (a) the building is not yet complete and (b) I'm an old cynic. That said, I was disappointed. Yes, it's a nice new building and in many places it's light (in daylight!) and airy. But it's difficult to tell whether that's because of the lack of passengers - I can't help feeling that in full flow it's not going to be a big bit better than any of the other terminals. The processes haven't really changed - more self service (which for me isn't a substitute for service) and "fast bag drop" (is it really "fast"?), The search areas seem to be big enough to cope *provided* they man them. There's the stupidity of having to go through the biometric processing if you're on a domestic flight or connection which means a two stage process at the gate.
One of the lounges (Silver/Club?) was open yesterday and seemed quite nice (but it's up two escalators).
Plenty of shopping and eating options (I noticed a Wagamams which I have a liking for). What else would you expect?
The flight we "boarded" was long haul and they were experimienting with fast track signage - total failure, everyone went through the fast track! To give them their due it was experimental and I gathered that the signs used were noweher near the final design.
Generally signage is standard BAA. The flight connections signs are purple which I've not seen before. One thing I felt was a little silly was that the flight connections centre is in the A terminal. If you arrive at the B terminal and your connecting flight is also from B I didn't feel it was clear that you could stay in B if you choose to.
The baggage hall is vast but I found it quite difficult to find the exit. There is no sign projecting from the wall so if you miss the small overhead as you get off the escalator it's not easy to see where to go.
I said I am a cynic. I overheard a researcher questioning a couple of ladies about their experience. They were waxing lyrical and saying things like "there's nobody else so it's so easy and spacious". If that's reflected into their answers I can't help feeling the wrong impression will be given to BAA.
Now, I have to admit that (a) the building is not yet complete and (b) I'm an old cynic. That said, I was disappointed. Yes, it's a nice new building and in many places it's light (in daylight!) and airy. But it's difficult to tell whether that's because of the lack of passengers - I can't help feeling that in full flow it's not going to be a big bit better than any of the other terminals. The processes haven't really changed - more self service (which for me isn't a substitute for service) and "fast bag drop" (is it really "fast"?), The search areas seem to be big enough to cope *provided* they man them. There's the stupidity of having to go through the biometric processing if you're on a domestic flight or connection which means a two stage process at the gate.
One of the lounges (Silver/Club?) was open yesterday and seemed quite nice (but it's up two escalators).
Plenty of shopping and eating options (I noticed a Wagamams which I have a liking for). What else would you expect?
The flight we "boarded" was long haul and they were experimienting with fast track signage - total failure, everyone went through the fast track! To give them their due it was experimental and I gathered that the signs used were noweher near the final design.
Generally signage is standard BAA. The flight connections signs are purple which I've not seen before. One thing I felt was a little silly was that the flight connections centre is in the A terminal. If you arrive at the B terminal and your connecting flight is also from B I didn't feel it was clear that you could stay in B if you choose to.
The baggage hall is vast but I found it quite difficult to find the exit. There is no sign projecting from the wall so if you miss the small overhead as you get off the escalator it's not easy to see where to go.
I said I am a cynic. I overheard a researcher questioning a couple of ladies about their experience. They were waxing lyrical and saying things like "there's nobody else so it's so easy and spacious". If that's reflected into their answers I can't help feeling the wrong impression will be given to BAA.
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Hartington...
Thanks for the interesting comments. I am CC for BA but did my T5 Tour way back in September when it still seemed like a building site so it will probably look totally different to me the day it opens (I am lucky enough to be working the Inaugural Arrival from HKG on the 27th...woohoo).
I just want to query your comments about Flight Connections. It is my understanding that passengers will be segregated on arrival and will have to proceed from T5B to T5A before arriving at Flight Connections so they will be unable to stay in T5B regardless as there will be no access to the departures area...am I right??? I was unable to go to T5B as it was still being fitted out when I was on my tour.
It is also my understanding that as per usual (FROM SOME VERY DAFT REASON) that BAA will not allocate the gates on the info screens until the typical 90 minutes or so before a flight departure so although chances are if you are on a LH flight which more than likely will be departing from T5B it will not be confirmed until shortly beforehand meaning you will be expected to remain in the main T5A holding area first!!!
Thanks
Thanks for the interesting comments. I am CC for BA but did my T5 Tour way back in September when it still seemed like a building site so it will probably look totally different to me the day it opens (I am lucky enough to be working the Inaugural Arrival from HKG on the 27th...woohoo).
I just want to query your comments about Flight Connections. It is my understanding that passengers will be segregated on arrival and will have to proceed from T5B to T5A before arriving at Flight Connections so they will be unable to stay in T5B regardless as there will be no access to the departures area...am I right??? I was unable to go to T5B as it was still being fitted out when I was on my tour.
It is also my understanding that as per usual (FROM SOME VERY DAFT REASON) that BAA will not allocate the gates on the info screens until the typical 90 minutes or so before a flight departure so although chances are if you are on a LH flight which more than likely will be departing from T5B it will not be confirmed until shortly beforehand meaning you will be expected to remain in the main T5A holding area first!!!
Thanks
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I have just been part of the trials for the new Terminal 5 , Heathrow. = Yuck !
I have just been part of the trials of the new Terminal 5 at Heathrow. I played the would-be passenger with about 300 others.
It was an exercise conducted in an amateurish manner !
I am sure you have heard of Feng Shui ? Well this building breaks all the rules. It is hideous, gross in more ways than one.
"Souless!" said a pretend passenger behind me.
I thought that Suvanabhumi was too much grey concrete and steel but at least it has some Thai style. Large classic statues etc. When the rain came through the roof a pretty Thai lady ran up to me with an umbrella. The Thais have tried to stamp some images of Thailand on the building.
But Terminal 5 = Yuck !
You can have any colour as long as its GREY - to paraphrase Henry Ford. Talk about a Damian Hirst pharmacy artwork in the Tate Modern Gallery. Well at least that had some humour.
This monstrosity is nothing but bad vibes off of straight edges, all in an untasteful light green glass, white and grey steel gurders, and just about grey everything else.
There are a few maze-like traps as well. Coming down one escalator it is quite easy to turn into the equivalent of a broom cupboard as the next direction is not apparent. There was almost a Rugby scrum at the top of one escalator as a bottle-neck at the beginning of the next one caused a pile-up at the top of the previous. All in all a very illogical design.
Let me outa here ! AAAAaaaaaggghhh !
The points that came out of the visit:-
1) Not a simple and user friendly design although they had plenty of space to play with.
2) A train system is needed between the two Terminals in the '5' area.
3) Geoff Want(In effect Willie Walsh's No.2) the ex-British Airways Director of Operations did the video on the T5 presentation. None of the British Airways staff I spoke to hade heard of him ! Can you imagine an England supporter not knowing who is Sven Goran Eriksson ?
4) Purposely my friend and I pretended that we did not hear the last calls for the flight. This was not picked up. When asked who we were I answered,"No speaker da Inglish!" They ran away and found a German speaker who was convinced I came from Bavaria.
5) The general design has no logic, section 'A'does not seem to follow section 'B'. Pus there were a few blind allys.
6) The whole operation was conducted in an amateurish fashion. There was no realism, no problem passengers and no difficulties to solve. If the volunteers did not follow a preset set of instructions the staff were clueless.
7) The automatic check-in kiosks asked if I hade packed my baggage and if anybody had given me something to take on board. What is the point ?
8) The fingerprint and face recognition system worked OK but made one feel like a in house convict. It did not like me scewing up my face like Harpo Marx.
9) The colours and interior design is cold and souless. With lots of grey and pale green windows. I could not get out of the building fast enough.
10) Like all modern airports it will be a shopping mall with runways.
11) The signs were poorly located and did not indicate direction. Many passengers will be standing around scratching their heads.
12) The flight arrival boards are too small and too low, other passengers easily obscure the boards. The writing is far too small.
13) Going through immigration there are massive words saying = UK Border . What does that supposed to mean ? A new breed of dog ? All in all the place is a dog's dinner !
The new Terminal 5 is due to open on March 27th 2008. There were still many contractors(Russians and Poles in hard hats and yellow dayglo vests) trying to finish the job. It will open on 27th March but there will still be people working on it.
It was an exercise conducted in an amateurish manner !
I am sure you have heard of Feng Shui ? Well this building breaks all the rules. It is hideous, gross in more ways than one.
"Souless!" said a pretend passenger behind me.
I thought that Suvanabhumi was too much grey concrete and steel but at least it has some Thai style. Large classic statues etc. When the rain came through the roof a pretty Thai lady ran up to me with an umbrella. The Thais have tried to stamp some images of Thailand on the building.
But Terminal 5 = Yuck !
You can have any colour as long as its GREY - to paraphrase Henry Ford. Talk about a Damian Hirst pharmacy artwork in the Tate Modern Gallery. Well at least that had some humour.
This monstrosity is nothing but bad vibes off of straight edges, all in an untasteful light green glass, white and grey steel gurders, and just about grey everything else.
There are a few maze-like traps as well. Coming down one escalator it is quite easy to turn into the equivalent of a broom cupboard as the next direction is not apparent. There was almost a Rugby scrum at the top of one escalator as a bottle-neck at the beginning of the next one caused a pile-up at the top of the previous. All in all a very illogical design.
Let me outa here ! AAAAaaaaaggghhh !
The points that came out of the visit:-
1) Not a simple and user friendly design although they had plenty of space to play with.
2) A train system is needed between the two Terminals in the '5' area.
3) Geoff Want(In effect Willie Walsh's No.2) the ex-British Airways Director of Operations did the video on the T5 presentation. None of the British Airways staff I spoke to hade heard of him ! Can you imagine an England supporter not knowing who is Sven Goran Eriksson ?
4) Purposely my friend and I pretended that we did not hear the last calls for the flight. This was not picked up. When asked who we were I answered,"No speaker da Inglish!" They ran away and found a German speaker who was convinced I came from Bavaria.
5) The general design has no logic, section 'A'does not seem to follow section 'B'. Pus there were a few blind allys.
6) The whole operation was conducted in an amateurish fashion. There was no realism, no problem passengers and no difficulties to solve. If the volunteers did not follow a preset set of instructions the staff were clueless.
7) The automatic check-in kiosks asked if I hade packed my baggage and if anybody had given me something to take on board. What is the point ?
8) The fingerprint and face recognition system worked OK but made one feel like a in house convict. It did not like me scewing up my face like Harpo Marx.
9) The colours and interior design is cold and souless. With lots of grey and pale green windows. I could not get out of the building fast enough.
10) Like all modern airports it will be a shopping mall with runways.
11) The signs were poorly located and did not indicate direction. Many passengers will be standing around scratching their heads.
12) The flight arrival boards are too small and too low, other passengers easily obscure the boards. The writing is far too small.
13) Going through immigration there are massive words saying = UK Border . What does that supposed to mean ? A new breed of dog ? All in all the place is a dog's dinner !
The new Terminal 5 is due to open on March 27th 2008. There were still many contractors(Russians and Poles in hard hats and yellow dayglo vests) trying to finish the job. It will open on 27th March but there will still be people working on it.
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T5
T5 is nothing great. BA and BAA have made into something big and amazing. Its not!!!
It's Stansted Airport in a terminal and an oversized shopping mall. Its an airport not Oxford Street. BAA only say get to the airport early so you can get lost in thier shopping malls with poor signs so you cant find your gate.
T5 will work but at peak hmmm. We wait and see.
One thing there are no clocks in the main check-in concourse. opps! What time is it please?
Plus fast bag drop. I think BA need to change that to slow bag drop.
LHR is dead. They should have built a new London Airport out in the Thames in the 1970's. The M25 is gridlocked as is the M4. All stops on the underground to T5 from central London no thanks and the LHR express rip off comes to mind.
Plus T6 and a new runway. BAA are barking mad. Lets see T5 struggle first. I could do with a good laugh.
It's Stansted Airport in a terminal and an oversized shopping mall. Its an airport not Oxford Street. BAA only say get to the airport early so you can get lost in thier shopping malls with poor signs so you cant find your gate.
T5 will work but at peak hmmm. We wait and see.
One thing there are no clocks in the main check-in concourse. opps! What time is it please?
Plus fast bag drop. I think BA need to change that to slow bag drop.
LHR is dead. They should have built a new London Airport out in the Thames in the 1970's. The M25 is gridlocked as is the M4. All stops on the underground to T5 from central London no thanks and the LHR express rip off comes to mind.
Plus T6 and a new runway. BAA are barking mad. Lets see T5 struggle first. I could do with a good laugh.
I wouldn't say Heathrow is "dead". It will never be dead, but it will become increasingly unsatisfactory and unpleasant as more flights, more people and more terminals are shoehorned into the same area.
I'll probably get shot down in flames for even mentioning it, but I don't understand why the possibility of moving lock stock and barrel to Stansted has never been seriously considered? I know you'd need to build at least two new runways and a couple of huge terminals, plus all the infrastructure, but at least it could be purpose built for the most part.
I'll probably get shot down in flames for even mentioning it, but I don't understand why the possibility of moving lock stock and barrel to Stansted has never been seriously considered? I know you'd need to build at least two new runways and a couple of huge terminals, plus all the infrastructure, but at least it could be purpose built for the most part.
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Well we'll see.
Gotta say Hermano, that your list gives the impression that you were looking for every thing you do not like. You don't like Steel and Glass. ok.
Screwing up your face like Harpo Marx probably made you feel more like a convict than looking at a camera.
Automatic checkin kiosks are not new - they have asked those 2 questions, as have check in agents, for years. They are DfT questions.
And I guess the large sign that reads "UK Border" is meant to indicate you are at the UK Border?? Seems pretty clear to me.
Most contractors wear hard hats and HiViz vests, irrespective of their nationality.
Gotta say Hermano, that your list gives the impression that you were looking for every thing you do not like. You don't like Steel and Glass. ok.
Screwing up your face like Harpo Marx probably made you feel more like a convict than looking at a camera.
Automatic checkin kiosks are not new - they have asked those 2 questions, as have check in agents, for years. They are DfT questions.
And I guess the large sign that reads "UK Border" is meant to indicate you are at the UK Border?? Seems pretty clear to me.
Most contractors wear hard hats and HiViz vests, irrespective of their nationality.
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Picture #2 is an alleged work of art from Damian Hirst.
Terminal 5 looks like an alleged work of art by Damian Hirst.
Perhaps T5 should be entered for the Turner Prize ?
There were many negative comments from the punters around me.
Bad direction signs or lack of. Sterile design, not user friendly etc etc.
Yes but it is a BIG building.
UK Grenze, oder Stalag Luft Fünf ?
"Most contractors wear hard hats and HiViz vests, irrespective of their nationality."
Really, what a fascinating piece of information. I would have never have guessed. I bet you are wicked in a pair of steel toe-tectors ?
Terminal 5 looks like an alleged work of art by Damian Hirst.
Perhaps T5 should be entered for the Turner Prize ?
There were many negative comments from the punters around me.
Bad direction signs or lack of. Sterile design, not user friendly etc etc.
Yes but it is a BIG building.
UK Grenze, oder Stalag Luft Fünf ?
"Most contractors wear hard hats and HiViz vests, irrespective of their nationality."
Really, what a fascinating piece of information. I would have never have guessed. I bet you are wicked in a pair of steel toe-tectors ?
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WOw...you just kept repeating yourself!!!
And yes, there IS a train between T5A and T5B!!!
As someone who has to work in the thing, I do not think its all that its trumped up to be but its definately the best thing going in the UK because lets face it, you brits are not good at developing infrastructure. Some may not like its contemporary feel but I rather like it, personal preference I suppose. There are clocks ALL OVER the place....they are on the flight info screens. The UK Boarder thing is a new concept which is being introduced by immigration all over the UK. As to point 4, you clearly were acting the maggot, they did the best they could with two people who clearly did not want to play along. Perhaps the trial day that you were taking part in did not require the need for "DIFFICULT" passenger trials. They may only have been running tests on systems and jettys etc.
T5 will definately be a vast improvement on the rest of LHR. You may not like the look of it but you just need to go over to the central area or T4 and realise that you aint gonna do much better!
And yes, there IS a train between T5A and T5B!!!
As someone who has to work in the thing, I do not think its all that its trumped up to be but its definately the best thing going in the UK because lets face it, you brits are not good at developing infrastructure. Some may not like its contemporary feel but I rather like it, personal preference I suppose. There are clocks ALL OVER the place....they are on the flight info screens. The UK Boarder thing is a new concept which is being introduced by immigration all over the UK. As to point 4, you clearly were acting the maggot, they did the best they could with two people who clearly did not want to play along. Perhaps the trial day that you were taking part in did not require the need for "DIFFICULT" passenger trials. They may only have been running tests on systems and jettys etc.
T5 will definately be a vast improvement on the rest of LHR. You may not like the look of it but you just need to go over to the central area or T4 and realise that you aint gonna do much better!
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apaddyinuk - you must be a UK boarder. I hope you don't pay too much rent?
Their computer system should have picked up that two passengers did not check in at the gate. If the trial is not realistic why bother? You speak like an apologist.
Their computer system should have picked up that two passengers did not check in at the gate. If the trial is not realistic why bother? You speak like an apologist.
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apaddyinuk
Uh careful there, us paddies don't exactly have a stellar record either. 
On the other hand, I did note a comment in one of the newspapers that T5 has been the longest piece of infrastructure in UK history. Something in the range 15-20 years?!
On the other hand, I did note a comment in one of the newspapers that T5 has been the longest piece of infrastructure in UK history. Something in the range 15-20 years?!
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Flyguy-
Who is Jade Goody ? One of the stewardesses you are friendly with, or is that a steward.
Apart from a few interesting comments I have not yet read a constructive, knowledgeable rebuttal of the points I have made.
Who is Jade Goody ? One of the stewardesses you are friendly with, or is that a steward.
Apart from a few interesting comments I have not yet read a constructive, knowledgeable rebuttal of the points I have made.
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I visited T5 last week and I thought that it was amazing....
The sheer size, the natural light and the views must make it one of the best terminals in the world. I think that it's "minimal" design is based on the practical need to process millions of passengers, but also a place to enjoy whilst killing time waiting for your flight.
Like the idea of no floors reaching the sides of the building, giving the impression that they are floating and so maximising the light from the glass shell.
I guest you must see it to make your own opinion....
The sheer size, the natural light and the views must make it one of the best terminals in the world. I think that it's "minimal" design is based on the practical need to process millions of passengers, but also a place to enjoy whilst killing time waiting for your flight.
Like the idea of no floors reaching the sides of the building, giving the impression that they are floating and so maximising the light from the glass shell.
I guest you must see it to make your own opinion....
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Hermano - stick with T1/2/3 then if T5 is that bad. I've never heard such a load of amateur ill-informed drival. What kind of person takes part in such a trial anyway? Probably someone who hasn't the slghtest idea about such a topic I expect!
From what I've seen of T5 it was very impressive and light years ahead of anything else I've seen in the UK. It is similar to Hong Kong which has been hugely popular and a great success. Doubtless there will be teething problems as there are bound to be with such a huge project.
I hate it when someone just has to whinge and moan when something positive arrives.
Regards...........
From what I've seen of T5 it was very impressive and light years ahead of anything else I've seen in the UK. It is similar to Hong Kong which has been hugely popular and a great success. Doubtless there will be teething problems as there are bound to be with such a huge project.
I hate it when someone just has to whinge and moan when something positive arrives.
Regards...........