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HEATHROW

Old 11th May 2016, 23:07
  #4181 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo View Post
09L departures are now common in the overnight period, they rotate with the other three options.
The 4-weekly night-time rotation has operated for many years, but it only applies after the last scheduled departure when single-runway operations begin, so "common" is a bit of an exaggeration - just over one 09L departure per day on average last year, as per my previous post, and fewer than 20 to date for this year.
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Old 11th May 2016, 23:16
  #4182 (permalink)  
 
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DR UK
Does anyone know the current status of the battle between HAL and LB Hillingdon re planning permission for the changes to allow easterly alternation?
I would have thought the Planning Inspectors had submitted their Enquiry report /recommendations to the Secretaries of State and we are awaiting their deliberations.......
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Old 12th May 2016, 04:55
  #4183 (permalink)  
 
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If ever John Holland-Kaye ever left his job at Heathrow I am sure he would be a hit on the comedy circuit with some of the comments he made when talking to media outlets yesterday especially the one about bicycles!
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Old 12th May 2016, 10:05
  #4184 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 118.70 View Post
I would have thought the Planning Inspectors had submitted their Enquiry report /recommendations to the Secretaries of State and we are awaiting their deliberations.......
Yes, answering my own lazy question with a bit of Googling comes up with a Government decision being "imminent" - a fairly elastic term in the context of decisions relating to Heathrow.
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Old 12th May 2016, 13:22
  #4185 (permalink)  
 
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DR UK
You have published an error - there is no Terminal 6, this is a planning application for a new 3rd runway and ancillary taxiways.

To assist if you look at the plans there are a string of piers fixed to a building where it is likely passengers will board and leave an aircraft. This building will be named the Sipson - Harlington - International Terminus building.
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Old 12th May 2016, 13:31
  #4186 (permalink)  
 
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whereas the most important airport in the world
Since when? On what basis?
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Old 12th May 2016, 13:47
  #4187 (permalink)  
 
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Leeds App we know who you are talking about and suggest you pay us a visit
between 06.00 and 10.30, mid afternoon and evening and you might just change your mind about it not been needed and April was 12% up for movements which is 500
mvemens a day
Sorry if a bit of topic but he is trolling anything to but his local drome up north
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Old 12th May 2016, 14:19
  #4188 (permalink)  
 
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the most important airport in the world and in critical need of runway capacity, can't get one.
The most important airport in the world at the present time is Hartsfield Atlanta International [101 million pax in 2015] which has five parallel runways in a great layout. Probably sufficient for its needs. If you mean Beijing Capital Airport [90 million pax in 2015] which is catching up rapidly, it has three parallel runways. It probably won't require more, as a new airport for Beijing is under construction at Da Xing. However, it is likely that the Chinese would construct an additional runway if it was deemed necessary. Costs appear to be under control there.

Meanwhile, I cannot think of any UK airport which has been given a new runway in recent times. They usually cost alot of money. That's the problem.
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Old 12th May 2016, 16:28
  #4189 (permalink)  
 
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Manchester perhaps!
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Old 12th May 2016, 18:06
  #4190 (permalink)  
 
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Manchester perhaps!
Manchester paid the full cost of theirs. Nothing was gifted to them.
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Old 12th May 2016, 19:52
  #4191 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trinity 09L View Post
DR UK
You have published an error - there is no Terminal 6, this is a planning application for a new 3rd runway and ancillary taxiways.

To assist if you look at the plans there are a string of piers fixed to a building where it is likely passengers will board and leave an aircraft. This building will be named the Sipson - Harlington - International Terminus building.
Love it !!

Joking aside, there have actually been two different plans published for the R3/T6 option - the original "northwest R3" and a variation labelled "potential optimisation".

Both show T6 in its planned location west of T5, to the south of where the Sofitel is at present.

The original plan shows 3 satellites, aligned N-S (i.e. with east/west-facing aircraft stands) roughly midway between the new runway and the current 09L/27R extended centreline.

The "optimised" plan has R3 moved southeast by around 300m. This moves the airport boundary clear of the M4/M25 interchange (though that would still need a grade change to get the M25 under the runway) and replaces the 3 N-S satellites with two oriented E-W (so the stands face north/south).

The various artists impressions of the Northwest option published so far all appear to show the original (3-satellite) configuration with the runway located closer to J4A.
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Old 18th May 2016, 08:03
  #4192 (permalink)  
 
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Early day motion 1162 - FINAL DECISION ON AIRPORT EXPANSION IN LONDON AND THE SOUTH EAST - UK Parliament

Some great support from GrahamBradyMP Sale in Gtr Manchester although I am not sure London MPs would be so embroiled in Mancunian issues.

I wonder why he is so keen ?
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Old 18th May 2016, 12:57
  #4193 (permalink)  
 
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BA are launching a new 4 x weekly service from LHR too SCL on 3rd January 2017

BA251 LHR 22:00 SCL 09:40+1 789 x146
BA250 SCL 18:45 LHR 12:05+1 789 x257

Once it begin this will be BA's longest non stop flight, with westbound flights scheduled for 14hrs 40min and eastbound 14hrs 20mins
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Old 18th May 2016, 13:47
  #4194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Shed-on-a-Pole View Post
Manchester paid the full cost of theirs. Nothing was gifted to them.
That's because Manchester paid 172m for it, which was a straightforward and reasonable construction cost (including acquisition of land). In contrast the stratospheric costs quoted for Heathrow are a mystery to the construction world for what they are going to do.

One explanation is that Heathrow, unlike Manchester, is an airport with charges controlled by the Regulator, and that adding to the approved asset base is one way to get an increase in authorised charges. By gaming the system you can get the new high cost estimates added to your asset base and this can lead to an increase in authorised charges.

Heathrow is part-owned by Ferrovial, who also own UK mainstream contractor Amey, and the "costs" of the project will be whatever Amey manage to publish.
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Old 18th May 2016, 14:28
  #4195 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting, WHBM. That sounds like sharp practice at its finest!
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Old 18th May 2016, 14:31
  #4196 (permalink)  
 
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Manchester was still being regulated at time - it was only the late 2000s when it was deregulated
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Old 18th May 2016, 20:20
  #4197 (permalink)  
 
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BA are launching a new 4 x weekly service from LHR too SCL on 3rd January 2017

BA251 LHR 22:00 SCL 09:40+1 789 x146
BA250 SCL 18:45 LHR 12:05+1 789 x257

Once it begin this will be BA's longest non stop flight, with westbound flights scheduled for 14hrs 40min and eastbound 14hrs 20mins
Excellent stuff, and not an "add-on", about time! Good to see some of the BD acquired slots being used for new long haul at last.

Particularly good as LA doesn't do SCL-LHR, this will eliminate changing at MAD (or GRU/EZE).
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Old 20th May 2016, 09:09
  #4198 (permalink)  
 
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Heathrow Airport communities wary of more promises - BBC News

Heathrow Airport communities wary of more promises

By Richard Westcott BBC Transport correspondent
  • 18 May 2016
"Dear Neighbour, Our position could not be clearer, nor could it be more formally placed upon the record. Terminal 5 will not lead to a third runway." (Sir John Egan, chief executive of Heathrow's then owner BAA Ltd, April 1999)."

It's not surprising that Heathrow Airport has some trust issues with its neighbours. In the fiery battle to build a brand new fifth terminal (T5) in the 1990s, the man who used to run Heathrow's parent company made a series of promises to ease concerns.

The biggest was a commitment to permanently rule out a third runway.

It might be 17 years since that neighbourly letter was sent out, but the memory still smarts for local opponents. That's why many people have told me they simply don't believe the new package of promises unveiled last week by Heathrow's current boss, John Holland-Kaye. Some look remarkably similar to the 1999 list, including pledges to limit noise, night flights, new runways and a vow to get more than half of passengers arriving on public transport.

The new boss has learnt from his predecessor's errors. Just look at last week's talk about laying down new asphalt: Heathrow will "accept a commitment from government ruling out any fourth runway". In other words, we're not going to pretend we'll never want it. But if the government blocks it we won't make a fuss.

The Heathrow CEO also recently said sorry for abandoning the pledge on a third runway, "I am shocked by that commitment. It should never have been made. And it could never be kept... It has hung over the relationship with local communities, and has led to a deficit of trust that can only be repaired by demonstrating we are a different company from the past," he said.

But the letter still comes up in conversation when I talk to people. Trust is hard won, easily squandered.

Promises


Did they keep any of the old promises?

I dug out the old letter from 1999. It was written at the end of the public inquiry into T5, a couple of years before the final approval came through. It's full of commitments. So how did they do?

Promise 1
: "An additional Heathrow runway should be ruled out forever." Promise broken.

Promise 2
: "A legal freeze on the night flight quota... at today's (1999) levels."
This one isn't straightforward, so bear with me. The number of actual planes flying overhead between 11:30pm and 6am has stayed roughly the same since 1999. It averages around 16 a night.
In fact, in 1999, it was 5,666 airliners in total. Last year it was 5,498. (That doesn't include exemptions for bad weather and emergencies). But, that's not the only way things are measured. They also use a points system called the quota count. It's a formula that combines the number of aircraft with the type used. Because some are noisier than others. The upper limit is set by the government. In 1999, Heathrow was allowed 11,140 noise points. They only used 9,312. In 2015 they were allowed 9,180 points. They only used 5,322. (Those figures come from Heathrow).
So, the number of aircraft is the same, but they have cut right down on their government allocated "noise budget", because the planes are quieter. Promise kept.

Protesters have spent years fighting against Heathrow expansion Heathrow's current, third runway proposal would stop flights between 11pm and 5:30am. That's the biggest change for decades. In reality, it would mean the six flights that now touch down between 4:30am and 5:30am would be pushed a little later, to arrive between 5:30am and 6am. So, you'd still get 16 early flights, they'd just all arrive in the half-hour before 6am, give or take a few minutes.

Promise 3: "We have proposed that if T5 is allowed there should be a legally-binding cap on noise levels at 1994 levels."
Noise is complex. Different things irritate different people. For some it's peak noise. For others it's about getting a regular break. The government currently says that 57 decibels (dB) is the point at which people start getting annoyed. Ministers set a noise contour, based on 57dB on a summer's day between 7am and 11pm. It's a maximum area where the airport can be noisy.
Heathrow's noise contour is limited to 145 sq km. The latest Civil Aviation Authority figures show the actual, current 57dB contour is 104.9 sq km. The retirement of Concorde in 2004 had a significant impact, cutting the noise envelope down from 126.9 sq km to 117.9 sq km. But far more significant was the global phasing out of noisier, Chapter 2 aircraft, which began in 2002, coupled with the continued introduction of quieter planes. Promise kept.

Promise 4: "We promise to take steps to reduce the impact of cars travelling to the airport by setting a long-term vision of 50% of passengers using public transport to Heathrow." It doesn't say how long "long-term" is, but 17 years on, the current level is just 40%. Promise broken.

Interestingly, the current proposal for a third runway includes a claim that "over 55% of passengers" will arrive on public transport. To be clear, there are many, many people who live near Heathrow who want to see it expand. They rely on the airport for jobs. They've got used to the noise. They knew it was noisy when they moved there.

I spent an hour or so in Hounslow market the other day, chatting to people. Views were split right down the middle, half for and half against. But if the government does pick Heathrow rather than Gatwick when it finally decides where to build a new runway, it faces a torrid time trying to get the plans through. Part of the reason for that is concern that promises on growth and noise will simply be broken.

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Old 20th May 2016, 10:31
  #4199 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
Protesters have spent years fighting against Heathrow expansion Heathrow's current, third runway proposal would stop flights between 11pm and 5:30am. That's the biggest change for decades. In reality, it would mean the six flights that now touch down between 4:30am and 5:30am would be pushed a little later, to arrive between 5:30am and 6am. So, you'd still get 16 early flights, they'd just all arrive in the half-hour before 6am, give or take a few minutes.
The BBC have failed to allow for the variation between summer and winter schedules.

It's true that in summer there are only half-a-dozen flights scheduled up to 5:30am (out of the 14 or so pre-06:00 arrivals). But it's a completely different story in winter, with 14 out of the 18 night quota flights being scheduled to arrive between 4:30am and 5:30am (because our clocks go back, but they don't in Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, etc).

You can't land 18 heavies in 30 minutes during night-time single-runway operations, and if the plan is to start TEAM (dual-runway approaches) from 5:30am, that will go down like a lead balloon among local communities, presumably why they are keeping very quiet about it.
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Old 20th May 2016, 14:23
  #4200 (permalink)  
 
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No Parliament is bound by the previous one, no business is bound by previous policy unless it's legally binding. LCY was built for a few DHC7s per day and would never see jets.....
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