HEATHROW
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Bagso the only shuttle type long haul service is LHR-JFK. Hong Kong has two a day from BA and five from based Cathay, much like Dubai and Emirates does. A commercial business has a duty to put assets where the profits are.
Many depart less than full yet make money if they are busy up front. This allows good deals in Y for the likes of poor old non status me.
Many depart less than full yet make money if they are busy up front. This allows good deals in Y for the likes of poor old non status me.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 5th Apr 2013 at 10:58.
cranford agreement
on a visit to heathrow yesterday morning 27R was being used for departures and 27L for arrivals. however every 10 minutes or so an aircraft landed on 27R - is this usual procedure ?
on a visit to heathrow yesterday morning 27R was being used for departures and 27L for arrivals. however every 10 minutes or so an aircraft landed on 27R - is this usual procedure ?
Firstly, the Cranford Agreement no longer applies, but even when it was in force it only affected easterly operations.
Landings on the departure runway are standard between 0600 and 0700 local, yesterday morning there were 21 of them. After 0700 they are not as common, but there is provision for up to 6 per hour if arrival delays have built up - yesterday there were 13 between 0700 and 1000.
thanks, it was between 8am and 9am so I saw a number of the arrivals which you had recorded. I flew home to MAN with BA departing from 27L at 8pm and saw an aircraft in the vicinity of terminal 4 whose nosewheel appeared to have collapsed - but I couldn't make out the name of the airline ?
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anti-Heathrow rally in Barnes
Did anyone go to Boris's anti-Heathrow rally in Barnes the other day (week?)?
Who knows why it was held in Barnes, perhaps because it's the furthest point from Heathrow within Zac Goldsmith's constituency.
If Heathrow was on easterly operations, it would have been silent overhead, if Heathrow was on westerly operations, it would not have been very noisy (too far out).
On the other hand, had it been held in Cranford, close to the runway threshold, there would have been some noise on both easterly and westerly operations and Boris's point may have been made.
Unfortunately the rich vocal anti-Heathrow lobby would not be seen that close to the airport, unless boarding a plane of course.
Who knows why it was held in Barnes, perhaps because it's the furthest point from Heathrow within Zac Goldsmith's constituency.
If Heathrow was on easterly operations, it would have been silent overhead, if Heathrow was on westerly operations, it would not have been very noisy (too far out).
On the other hand, had it been held in Cranford, close to the runway threshold, there would have been some noise on both easterly and westerly operations and Boris's point may have been made.
Unfortunately the rich vocal anti-Heathrow lobby would not be seen that close to the airport, unless boarding a plane of course.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 3rd May 2013 at 16:54. Reason: typo
Unfortunately the rich vocal anti-Heathrow lobby would not be seen that close to the airport, unless boarding a plane of course.
But you can't hear the Aircraft noise from the First and Business lounge either!
But you can't hear the Aircraft noise from the First and Business lounge either!
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I can confirm that BAA has been, and is in the process of, purchasing multiple properties in Sipson Road and the surrounding roads. Bunches and bunches of them in fact.
Last edited by Rivet Joint; 4th May 2013 at 19:44.
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Quote: "Unfortunately the rich vocal anti-Heathrow lobby would not be seen that close to the airport, unless boarding a plane of course.
But you can't hear the Aircraft noise from the First and Business lounge either!"
Good point!
Quote: "I can confirm that BAA has been, and is in the process of, purchasing multiple properties in Sipson Road and the surrounding roads. Bunches and bunches of them in fact."
Good, hope they're offering decent packages. Much of Sipson is rented out on 6-month lets as Heathrow Airport PLC already owns most it.
But you can't hear the Aircraft noise from the First and Business lounge either!"
Good point!
Quote: "I can confirm that BAA has been, and is in the process of, purchasing multiple properties in Sipson Road and the surrounding roads. Bunches and bunches of them in fact."
Good, hope they're offering decent packages. Much of Sipson is rented out on 6-month lets as Heathrow Airport PLC already owns most it.
Quote: "I can confirm that BAA has been, and is in the process of, purchasing multiple properties in Sipson Road and the surrounding roads. Bunches and bunches of them in fact."
Good, hope they're offering decent packages. Much of Sipson is rented out on 6-month lets as Heathrow Airport PLC already owns most it.
Good, hope they're offering decent packages. Much of Sipson is rented out on 6-month lets as Heathrow Airport PLC already owns most it.
Paxing All Over The World
May have already been mentioned: BBC News - Heathrow school gets soundproof domes to block airport noise
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Quote: "It would be more effective if BAA bought up the properties, offering generous additional packages which actually aren't that much more in the overall scheme of things, and just demolished them, clearing the land for what they want and a nice buffer around. It's actually surprising how much of the land for R3 etc is already just fields."
Yes, most of the land north of LHR is open country, the towns of Hayes and West Drayton are north of the M4. This open land extends west accross the M25 as well, leaving plenty of room for a fourth parallel rwy as well as additional airport infrastructure.
Quote: "May have already been mentioned: BBC News - Heathrow school gets soundproof domes to block airport noise"
Nice view of easterly operations from Hounslow Heath in the piece. This is very near the eastern end of 09R/27L.
Maybe this is where Boris should have held his rally if he has a point to make about noise, and not at Barnes for Pete's sake!
Yes, most of the land north of LHR is open country, the towns of Hayes and West Drayton are north of the M4. This open land extends west accross the M25 as well, leaving plenty of room for a fourth parallel rwy as well as additional airport infrastructure.
Quote: "May have already been mentioned: BBC News - Heathrow school gets soundproof domes to block airport noise"
Nice view of easterly operations from Hounslow Heath in the piece. This is very near the eastern end of 09R/27L.
Maybe this is where Boris should have held his rally if he has a point to make about noise, and not at Barnes for Pete's sake!
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 5th May 2013 at 23:12.
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A little late I know but the first A380 gate at Pier 5 has been opened with Stand 342 now a lot bigger than before. This means that they can manage SQ319, EK004, EK006, and QF002 on Pier 6 with SQ321 loading somewhere near Reading....
That's the fifth gate at T3 that's A380 capable and means four A380s depart for Dubai in short order every evening!
That's the fifth gate at T3 that's A380 capable and means four A380s depart for Dubai in short order every evening!
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 6th May 2013 at 01:27.
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From someone who lives outside of London, it initially looks like LHR make rules up as they go along.
Even in Cat 3 conditions they seem to land 27L and 27R now did they used to do that ?
When there are EAT long delays airlines like BA now seem to simply cancel less lucrative short haul outbounds to make sure more long hauls get in and out.
Airlines seem able to change inbounds approaches in times of delay ie a BA 319 last winter heard via the scanner gave his slot up to a BA 747 lower on fuel.
Similarly a BA 77W seemed able to take the slot of a BA 321 well infront as he stated he didn't have much fuel.
A decade ago if there was fog a plane could either hold or had to divert.
Im sure LHR has the strictest and safest rules of all our airports, but for some reason they seem to have far more leeway than other airports in the UK into procedures now.
Can the experts who know far more about LHR procedures tell me if things have changed as much as it seems ?
Nigel
Even in Cat 3 conditions they seem to land 27L and 27R now did they used to do that ?
When there are EAT long delays airlines like BA now seem to simply cancel less lucrative short haul outbounds to make sure more long hauls get in and out.
Airlines seem able to change inbounds approaches in times of delay ie a BA 319 last winter heard via the scanner gave his slot up to a BA 747 lower on fuel.
Similarly a BA 77W seemed able to take the slot of a BA 321 well infront as he stated he didn't have much fuel.
A decade ago if there was fog a plane could either hold or had to divert.
Im sure LHR has the strictest and safest rules of all our airports, but for some reason they seem to have far more leeway than other airports in the UK into procedures now.
Can the experts who know far more about LHR procedures tell me if things have changed as much as it seems ?
Nigel
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Even in Cat 3 conditions they seem to land 27L and 27R now did they used to do that ?
Why not? 27L/R both have Cat III ILS and have had for many, many years.
Airlines seem able to change inbounds approaches in times of delay ie a BA 319 last winter heard via the scanner gave his slot up to a BA 747 lower on fuel.
Again, BA have been doing that for a very long time. (And you should a) not be listening on a scanner and b) you must not publish anything you hear - two offences under the WT Act).
Similarly a BA 77W seemed able to take the slot of a BA 321 well infront as he stated he didn't have much fuel.
See previous answer. Bottom line is that it is up to the captain of the a/c which will pick up the delay to agree. This procedure does not affect any other flights, just the two participating.
A decade ago if there was fog a plane could either hold or had to divert.
What else, may I ask, would be the alternative? They hold but if the delay is too long they go elsewhere. Has been like that for 50 years or more.
Why not? 27L/R both have Cat III ILS and have had for many, many years.
Airlines seem able to change inbounds approaches in times of delay ie a BA 319 last winter heard via the scanner gave his slot up to a BA 747 lower on fuel.
Again, BA have been doing that for a very long time. (And you should a) not be listening on a scanner and b) you must not publish anything you hear - two offences under the WT Act).
Similarly a BA 77W seemed able to take the slot of a BA 321 well infront as he stated he didn't have much fuel.
See previous answer. Bottom line is that it is up to the captain of the a/c which will pick up the delay to agree. This procedure does not affect any other flights, just the two participating.
A decade ago if there was fog a plane could either hold or had to divert.
What else, may I ask, would be the alternative? They hold but if the delay is too long they go elsewhere. Has been like that for 50 years or more.
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(And you should a) not be listening on a scanner and b) you must not publish anything you hear - two offences under the WT Act).
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Quote: "When there are EAT long delays airlines like BA now seem to simply cancel less lucrative short haul outbounds to make sure more long hauls get in and out."
Could it be because there are more short haul flights (higher frequency)?
The cancellation of a once/day long haul flight is more disruptive than say one or two of several flights/day, especially if a larger aircraft can be used for the remaining flights.
Could it be because there are more short haul flights (higher frequency)?
The cancellation of a once/day long haul flight is more disruptive than say one or two of several flights/day, especially if a larger aircraft can be used for the remaining flights.
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Police State then Heathrow Director as I always have suspected. As I understand iyou can listen to ATC as long as it is for you personally. Strange you can listen to transmissions across the world with no problems but apparently not in UK according to you. I did it for 40 years and nobody ever told me not too - I would have ignored them anyway. I would have thought the police would have more serious things to worry about - there again!