HEATHROW
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If we're going down this route, can somebody please explain this? What's the advantage of:
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BBC News - PM to crack down on 'time-wasting' appeals
On Twitter, Conservative MP Zac Goldsmith criticised Mr Cameron, writing: "So the same PM whose dithering on airports will cost 3-6 years is now enraged by the delays affecting big infrastructure decisions?"
On Twitter, Conservative MP Zac Goldsmith criticised Mr Cameron, writing: "So the same PM whose dithering on airports will cost 3-6 years is now enraged by the delays affecting big infrastructure decisions?"
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Quote: "just start the expansion now.if heathrow was in china it's capacity would be doubled in 12 months !!
the UK economy is on a knife edge,get the construction jobs going,relocate the odd villager or two,with suitable compensation and we can have an airport to rival the best in the world.
sadly,i know this will not happen,yet another opportunity missed by UK PLC.
lets just sit back and watch all our near neighbours benefit from the huge expansion in air travel.rant over !"
Good rant, bermudatriangle!
Quote: ""On Twitter, Conservative MP Zac Goldsmith criticised Mr Cameron, writing: "So the same PM whose dithering on airports will cost 3-6 years is now enraged by the delays affecting big infrastructure decisions?""
Same as Boris a while back, it's a bit late for these chaps to be so concerned about delays in airport expansion. They should have stiffened Dave's backbone and resolve by strongly backing Heathrow expansion.
Instead, their grandstanding has has scared the hell out of Dave, hence the renewed vision of long grass and the deafening sound of the can being kicked even further down the street.
BBC News - PM to crack down on 'time-wasting' appeals
Interestingly in this piece, Dave mentions the 1940s.
"Mr Cameron drew a historical analogy, saying: "When this country was at war in the '40s, Whitehall underwent a revolution.
"Normal rules were circumvented. Convention was thrown out. As one historian put it, everything was thrown at 'the overriding purpose' of beating Hitler.
"Well, this country is in the economic equivalent of war today - and we need the same spirit. We need to forget about crossing every 't' and dotting every 'i' - and we need to throw everything we've got at winning in this global race."
What Churchill did was to run a command economy very sucessfully. It is the only case of anyone making a command economy work.
Ironically, many Communist countries tried it (before and after the 1940s), but only a Conservative Prime Minister could make it work!
Is Dave really suggesting that we go down this route once again?
the UK economy is on a knife edge,get the construction jobs going,relocate the odd villager or two,with suitable compensation and we can have an airport to rival the best in the world.
sadly,i know this will not happen,yet another opportunity missed by UK PLC.
lets just sit back and watch all our near neighbours benefit from the huge expansion in air travel.rant over !"
Good rant, bermudatriangle!
Quote: ""On Twitter, Conservative MP Zac Goldsmith criticised Mr Cameron, writing: "So the same PM whose dithering on airports will cost 3-6 years is now enraged by the delays affecting big infrastructure decisions?""
Same as Boris a while back, it's a bit late for these chaps to be so concerned about delays in airport expansion. They should have stiffened Dave's backbone and resolve by strongly backing Heathrow expansion.
Instead, their grandstanding has has scared the hell out of Dave, hence the renewed vision of long grass and the deafening sound of the can being kicked even further down the street.
BBC News - PM to crack down on 'time-wasting' appeals
Interestingly in this piece, Dave mentions the 1940s.
"Mr Cameron drew a historical analogy, saying: "When this country was at war in the '40s, Whitehall underwent a revolution.
"Normal rules were circumvented. Convention was thrown out. As one historian put it, everything was thrown at 'the overriding purpose' of beating Hitler.
"Well, this country is in the economic equivalent of war today - and we need the same spirit. We need to forget about crossing every 't' and dotting every 'i' - and we need to throw everything we've got at winning in this global race."
What Churchill did was to run a command economy very sucessfully. It is the only case of anyone making a command economy work.
Ironically, many Communist countries tried it (before and after the 1940s), but only a Conservative Prime Minister could make it work!
Is Dave really suggesting that we go down this route once again?
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 19th Nov 2012 at 23:05.
Even if it is possible, would it not only double capacity if segregated mode was abandoned?
How would the prospect of permanent mixed mode go down with flightpath residents?
How would the prospect of permanent mixed mode go down with flightpath residents?
In fact I don't think a term has ever been invented for landing and taking off simultaneously on the same runway - "aircraft carrier mode", perhaps ?
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New Heathrow
Cant we just concrete over the Costwolds or somewhere around Marlow, where few people live apart from the super wealthy and a few farmers, build the four runways or six with no major population impact? Having been woken up again this morning at 5:30am by aircraft landing at LHR (I dont live under the flight path but look on to it), it can only be a good thing to move this west and slighty north of London. My days of being a fan of LHR are fast dwindling and common sense dictates that it is in the wrong position and needs to be rebuilt elsewhere. 3million people in West London and the surroundings are suffering..
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Cant we just concrete over the Costwolds
few people live apart from the super wealthy
Summary: not going to happen.
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Costwolds
I know aero Mad, there was a strong undertone of sarcasm in my message. Although, the hills could be flattended quite easily, but getting the rich to either cough up money and agree to a proposal that would effect them is the difficult part.
Last edited by bcn_boy; 20th Nov 2012 at 11:24. Reason: wrong name reference
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Cant we just concrete over the Costwolds or somewhere around Marlow
Are you really 72 and have lived near LHR all that time? It's been there since 1947, you've had plenty of opportunity to move if you felt so strongly. Today's traffic compares well to B707s / VC10s and regular Tridents surely.
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Sorry Skipi, but to suggest to everybody to move away from anywhere near LHR who do not agree with its expansion or the crushing aircraft noise is unacceptable at best. It is not quite as easy as moving.
Today's traffic compares well to B707s / VC10s and regular Tridents surely.
In terms of numbers of movements - just over 250K ATMs in 1972, almost double that now.
Which part of London do you live in?
Personally, having worked all my life in the aviation industry, I rarely notice aircraft noise, apart from early mornings on easterlies, but I'm prepared to accept that a lot of people do.
My point was simply that it's generally accepted that noise nuisance has two components: how much noise aircraft make, and how often they make it.
Those are, after all, the parameters that go into the computation of the published noise contour maps.
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Being in the business, I can certainly notice the changes, and the different noises. A few years ago, when the first Airbus A320's started coming into SEA, noise complaints increased dramatically. It didnt help that this was about the same time that the third runway opened, so people were blaming the increased noise on increased traffic, not the ac.
As noted before, the approach to KSEA, due to airspace, has a very defined location for a drop from 9000 to 6000. Depending on the ac, (especially the 320) this is a huge noise generator...and the public took notice.
Having worked with the noise gathering data at SEA and PDX, the models used for the calculations leave quite a bit to be desired, basically leaving out noise reflective issues such as vegetation, prevailing winds, inversion/marine layers as well as aircraft type/configuration settings.
As noted before, the approach to KSEA, due to airspace, has a very defined location for a drop from 9000 to 6000. Depending on the ac, (especially the 320) this is a huge noise generator...and the public took notice.
Having worked with the noise gathering data at SEA and PDX, the models used for the calculations leave quite a bit to be desired, basically leaving out noise reflective issues such as vegetation, prevailing winds, inversion/marine layers as well as aircraft type/configuration settings.
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Quote: "No, I mean bcn_boy, I suspect the poor guy rented in Hounslow on day when they were landing on 09L....."
..... and taking off on 09R and doing noise abatement turns over Hounslow, Whitton, Sunbury.
Quote: "I have friends who have lived all their days in Richmond and don't noice anymore, in my experience, it is the incomers (from Barcelona I wonder?) who kick up the biggest fuss. It's part and parcel of London life I'm afraid."
Indeed, anyone who has lived under the flightpath for a long time will appreciate how much quieter (and cleaner) today's aircraft are compared to the early jets of the late 1950s and 1960s.
Some may say "not quiet enough" and/or "not quickly enough", but progress is being made, and by the time the rwy(s) are built, quieter aircraft such as the B787, B747-8 and A350 will be in service.
To a large extent it is the incomers who kick up the biggest fuss, and they tend to live a fair distance from Heathrow: there appears to be much more moaning from the residents of Clapham and Putney, for example, than from those in Cranford, on the 27R threshold.
..... and taking off on 09R and doing noise abatement turns over Hounslow, Whitton, Sunbury.
Quote: "I have friends who have lived all their days in Richmond and don't noice anymore, in my experience, it is the incomers (from Barcelona I wonder?) who kick up the biggest fuss. It's part and parcel of London life I'm afraid."
Indeed, anyone who has lived under the flightpath for a long time will appreciate how much quieter (and cleaner) today's aircraft are compared to the early jets of the late 1950s and 1960s.
Some may say "not quiet enough" and/or "not quickly enough", but progress is being made, and by the time the rwy(s) are built, quieter aircraft such as the B787, B747-8 and A350 will be in service.
To a large extent it is the incomers who kick up the biggest fuss, and they tend to live a fair distance from Heathrow: there appears to be much more moaning from the residents of Clapham and Putney, for example, than from those in Cranford, on the 27R threshold.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 20th Nov 2012 at 21:57.
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US to start CLT-LHR, guess that means the end for LGW.
US Airways | We?re adding service to London Heathrow
US Airways | We?re adding service to London Heathrow
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US to start CLT-LHR, guess that means the end for LGW.
Was past the BA Engineering Base on Sunday and noticed the engine run pen has been dismantled and is being re-built somewhat larger. I would imagine the old one wasn't A380 ready!
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 20th Nov 2012 at 23:33.
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Thank you for all the condesending comments. Much appreciated! I have lived in the same part of London for 20 years, I overlook the flight path, not directly under it and it is getting busier and noisier as the years go by. 777's and 747's being the loudest of them all. Like I said in my earlier posts, I have been a fan of LHR but it is now at a point which its effect on on residents of West London is very detrimental. We need a new airport in a new position away from heavily built up areas and if that means 'moving' LHR then so be it. CDG, AMS and MUC, all major hubs that have very little overfly of Urban areas. FRA has the same constrints as LHR now, although it has more runways, it is limited in its operating times. All new airports being built are sensilbly put away from large populations.
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Quote: "Thank you for all the condesending comments. Much appreciated! I have lived in the same part of London for 20 years, I overlook the flight path, not directly under it and it is getting busier and noisier as the years go by. 777's and 747's being the loudest of them all. Like I said in my earlier posts, I have been a fan of LHR but it is now at a point which its effect on on residents of West London is very detrimental. We need a new airport in a new position away from heavily built up areas and if that means 'moving' LHR then so be it. CDG, AMS and MUC, all major hubs that have very little overfly of Urban areas. FRA has the same constrints as LHR now, although it has more runways, it is limited in its operating times. All new airports being built are sensilbly put away from large populations."
Don't think my comments are condescending, but if the cap fits.....
Have to say that there is a world of difference between the noise of a B747 and a B777! The latter is much quieter and the former is being phased out.
It's not so easy to "move" Heathrow, and even if it was, it's long term operation. More hub capacity is needed now, not in 20 years time.
Don't think my comments are condescending, but if the cap fits.....
Have to say that there is a world of difference between the noise of a B747 and a B777! The latter is much quieter and the former is being phased out.
It's not so easy to "move" Heathrow, and even if it was, it's long term operation. More hub capacity is needed now, not in 20 years time.
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'No ifs. No buts. Heathrow must have a third runway' | Spectator Events | The Spectator
I am going, it may be fun. If any board members are tempted,do say hi.
I am going, it may be fun. If any board members are tempted,do say hi.