SHANNON
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3 Diverted aircraft to Shannon so far this evening.
Now that Ryanair has obtained landing slots for AMS, could they launch the long time rumoured SNN-AMS service? No talk of it yet according to my source.
Now that Ryanair has obtained landing slots for AMS, could they launch the long time rumoured SNN-AMS service? No talk of it yet according to my source.
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Very little P2P demand for a B738 from SNN to AMS. A feeder is what makes the route work as shown in the UK for example. Of EI's two daily ORK-AMS services, about 40% are connections on a daily basis. The Amsterdam market is well catered for from ORK and DUB with EI. As has been shown in CPH, there is seriously large opposition to FR entering AMS.
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You'd have to think that they could have launched Shannon-Eindhoven if they wanted to hurt Aer Lingus in Cork.
In addition, any Shannon-Amsterdam route is likely to strip out the low-yielding leisure passengers, rather than the connecting passengers and business passengers who make up the majority of Cork-Amsterdam traffic, so the financial impact on Aer Lingus could be contained.
The sensible use of Amsterdam slots would be to go head-to-head or routes that are served several times a day by a single airline. That's where the best yield will be obtained.
In addition, any Shannon-Amsterdam route is likely to strip out the low-yielding leisure passengers, rather than the connecting passengers and business passengers who make up the majority of Cork-Amsterdam traffic, so the financial impact on Aer Lingus could be contained.
The sensible use of Amsterdam slots would be to go head-to-head or routes that are served several times a day by a single airline. That's where the best yield will be obtained.
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The reliable money is made from consultants and contractors who fly every week to projects they are working. They make up a bit over 5% of passengers, but 15%-20% of revenues and sustain the route for 6 months a year.
I couldn't see Shannon-Amsterdam poaching many of them, although there is the potential to grow similar business from/to the Mid-West.
The next group who contribute good money are connecting business passengers. These are often late bookings, so the revenues from the leg to Amsterdam can be pretty good. The fact that Cork has no long-haul pushes a lot of these through Amsterdam (although far more go through Heathrow).
Again that group would be hard to tap. Many are going to the US, so if they were to go to Shannon, they would be more likely to get on a westbound aircraft than fly to Amsterdam. Then again, Ryanair don't offer connections anyway.
The place where Ryanair could really poach passengers from Cork-Amsterdam is from tourists visiting South-Western Ireland (mostly Dutch, but also from Belgium and north-western Germany). This group makes up a substantial portion of summertime travelers and they do often pay substantial fares. However, it is a group that could equally easily be enticed to leave from Eindhoven.
I couldn't see Shannon-Amsterdam poaching many of them, although there is the potential to grow similar business from/to the Mid-West.
The next group who contribute good money are connecting business passengers. These are often late bookings, so the revenues from the leg to Amsterdam can be pretty good. The fact that Cork has no long-haul pushes a lot of these through Amsterdam (although far more go through Heathrow).
Again that group would be hard to tap. Many are going to the US, so if they were to go to Shannon, they would be more likely to get on a westbound aircraft than fly to Amsterdam. Then again, Ryanair don't offer connections anyway.
The place where Ryanair could really poach passengers from Cork-Amsterdam is from tourists visiting South-Western Ireland (mostly Dutch, but also from Belgium and north-western Germany). This group makes up a substantial portion of summertime travelers and they do often pay substantial fares. However, it is a group that could equally easily be enticed to leave from Eindhoven.
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Cork has gotten 4 new route announcements this year, despite the fact that 2 were cancelled there is 20 new weekly flights! Shannon has got 2 "new routes", 1 of which was basically a lower capacity return of an earlier cancelled service, the other being a weekly Turkey charter.
Seems like Shannon needs to start getting its act together. Edinburgh or Glasgow need to return and quite frankly I'm starting to wonder whether the management are doing anything on this regard. Its like they open negotiations and close them just as fast. My source has revealed to me this evening that Shannon has opened negotiations with Stobart, Flybe, Loganair, CityJet and Ryanair, all which have failed. Why? I don't know. I am very confident of a market for these services, especially with the lack of a Knock service. They were success on a daily ATR72 prior to the pullout of stobart, there is no reason why they cannot be now.
Seems like Shannon needs to start getting its act together. Edinburgh or Glasgow need to return and quite frankly I'm starting to wonder whether the management are doing anything on this regard. Its like they open negotiations and close them just as fast. My source has revealed to me this evening that Shannon has opened negotiations with Stobart, Flybe, Loganair, CityJet and Ryanair, all which have failed. Why? I don't know. I am very confident of a market for these services, especially with the lack of a Knock service. They were success on a daily ATR72 prior to the pullout of stobart, there is no reason why they cannot be now.
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Cork has gotten 4 new route announcements this year, despite the fact that 2 were cancelled there is 20 new weekly flights! Shannon has got 2 "new routes", 1 of which was basically a lower capacity return of an earlier cancelled service, the other being a weekly Turkey charter.
Seems like Shannon needs to start getting its act together. Edinburgh or Glasgow need to return and quite frankly I'm starting to wonder whether the management are doing anything on this regard. Its like they open negotiations and close them just as fast. My source has revealed to me this evening that Shannon has opened negotiations with Stobart, Flybe, Loganair, CityJet and Ryanair, all which have failed. Why? I don't know. I am very confident of a market for these services, especially with the lack of a Knock service. They were success on a daily ATR72 prior to the pullout of stobart, there is no reason why they cannot be now.
Seems like Shannon needs to start getting its act together. Edinburgh or Glasgow need to return and quite frankly I'm starting to wonder whether the management are doing anything on this regard. Its like they open negotiations and close them just as fast. My source has revealed to me this evening that Shannon has opened negotiations with Stobart, Flybe, Loganair, CityJet and Ryanair, all which have failed. Why? I don't know. I am very confident of a market for these services, especially with the lack of a Knock service. They were success on a daily ATR72 prior to the pullout of stobart, there is no reason why they cannot be now.
Shannon got nine new routes last year given Ryanair new focus on primary Airports around Europe Shannon of knock isn't really on their radar bar the odd frequency rotation here and there - don't see this changing until at least their new aircraft start arriving - cork different story as they won't expand till charges dropped / reduced.
Of the other pretenders
Stobart air - in complete consolidation mode don't think they have announced any new routes this year?? Proof of this is fact that aer lingus putting the a320 twice daily on Dublin - Liverpool this would previously definitely have been a stobart air / EI regional feeder service
2) Logan air not operating into Ireland at all and can't see that changing in near future - fare structure also would not suit regionals
3) Flybe are a bit all over the place strategy wise at the minute pulling and cancelling routes all over the place don't think they see a future in Ireland for them Personally
4) city jet have tried and failed on Shannon don't see them returning anytime soon especially with cork announcement
Shannon have a nice suite of routes at the minute and think they need to make these sustainable in the short term as looking at the loads some of them could quite easily be pulled by Ryanair but do agree it's inevitable at some stage someone will do a Scottish route from either knock or Shannon or
Indeed both
Airports meet airlines about routes on multiple occasions during the year to discuss current and new routes don't think it's a case of negotiations have failed - airlines would be well aware of the charges structure for routes - that's me done!!
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stobart air in consolidation? In 2015 they started flights to LBA, EMA, NQY and DSA … all under the EIR franchise, that's not exactly consolidation?
LPL-DUB has historically been a very strong route so I do see some logic in EI doing this themselves ...
LPL-DUB has historically been a very strong route so I do see some logic in EI doing this themselves ...
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Aer Ryan,
Respectfully I say the negotiations may have taken place and said routes didn't materialise. The market has changed, far fewer airlines available. Hence, competition is intense between airports for attracting airlines.
Said routes may have worked in the past but clearly are much less attractive than the alternatives. Besides SNN in my view is quite small catchment and therefore, a low cost service by FR mops up a sizeable amount of traffic on their existing routes. All other go to Dublin.
The outlook is not great for growth at smaller airports. With fewer airlines and since the recession big hubs have recovered but smaller airports generally have not. With continued consolidation and airlines getting stronger, the power is in their hands. Not good news for airports. Particularly the smaller ones...
Ei-bud
Respectfully I say the negotiations may have taken place and said routes didn't materialise. The market has changed, far fewer airlines available. Hence, competition is intense between airports for attracting airlines.
Said routes may have worked in the past but clearly are much less attractive than the alternatives. Besides SNN in my view is quite small catchment and therefore, a low cost service by FR mops up a sizeable amount of traffic on their existing routes. All other go to Dublin.
The outlook is not great for growth at smaller airports. With fewer airlines and since the recession big hubs have recovered but smaller airports generally have not. With continued consolidation and airlines getting stronger, the power is in their hands. Not good news for airports. Particularly the smaller ones...
Ei-bud
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Cumbrian boy,
Dub LPL may well have been a strong route, but the last foray onto the route was not good. A daily 320 did not do the business, even with the leisure market. My brother was on a 320 with 35 pax, fr was full and EI price was super cheap. This time they will do better, granted with Ta feed but will be small part of it.
I'd agree with comments above LPL dub is EIR territory ..
Dub LPL may well have been a strong route, but the last foray onto the route was not good. A daily 320 did not do the business, even with the leisure market. My brother was on a 320 with 35 pax, fr was full and EI price was super cheap. This time they will do better, granted with Ta feed but will be small part of it.
I'd agree with comments above LPL dub is EIR territory ..
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where is the stobart/cityjet atr 72 at the moment is that franchise over or could it be put back into eir service possibly increasing the chances of them reopening shannon routes?
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I appreciate and accept all your comments, except for the small catchment. Shannon is well placed to hoover up the traffic from both Limerick and Galway, Ireland's 3rd.and 4th largest cities. That is not a small catchment area. Keep in mind that out of a 4.5million population only 1.2 live in DUB. The extreme focus on DUB is still rather excessive. In the Limerick-Galway corridor there is a minimum of 300,000 people. You also should get alot of inbound tourism for the west and traffic from North Cork, Tipperary, other parts of Midlands etc.
Imo the problem with Ireland is the mindset of people, which isn't really there fault. Up to recently Ireland was a country of Monopolies, Power, Broadband, Telephone, Television (and still kinda is, RTE get too much), so people are not used to thinking about alternatives. It's more of a Dublin is the only option type of approach.
Imo the problem with Ireland is the mindset of people, which isn't really there fault. Up to recently Ireland was a country of Monopolies, Power, Broadband, Telephone, Television (and still kinda is, RTE get too much), so people are not used to thinking about alternatives. It's more of a Dublin is the only option type of approach.
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Keep in mind that out of a 4.5million population only 1.2 live in DUB
The metro is 2.1 million which are largely less than 1 hour drive and that increases to 3.3 million+ (excl NI) within 2 hours drive. Now that is what you call a catchment area. A few hundred thousand doesn't count.
As for attracting passengers from Galway, given the 24/7 bus service the choice and prices available ex Dublin will win.
I don't expect any new carriers to fly into SNN outside of a possible EIR return. FR are in town and many won't bother with SNN.
The new BE service will be very telling if Galway people use SNN, not sure it will last long.
Cumbrian boy,
Dub LPL may well have been a strong route, but the last foray onto the route was not good. A daily 320 did not do the business, even with the leisure market. My brother was on a 320 with 35 pax, fr was full and EI price was super cheap. This time they will do better, granted with Ta feed but will be small part of it.
I'd agree with comments above LPL dub is EIR territory ..
Dub LPL may well have been a strong route, but the last foray onto the route was not good. A daily 320 did not do the business, even with the leisure market. My brother was on a 320 with 35 pax, fr was full and EI price was super cheap. This time they will do better, granted with Ta feed but will be small part of it.
I'd agree with comments above LPL dub is EIR territory ..
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A catchment of 300k is not big. Take Southend Airport, it has a suggested immediate catchment of 600k and has the London market on its door step, it still has a marginally busy airport. So given that comparison, Shannon probably punches above its weight. Citing that example as I know the numbers.
For airlines, big cities like Manchester, London , Birmingham are v attractive as huge catchments locally. Equally but importantly, costs like are much lower due to in many cases scale of existing business in their respective bases... Equally Shannon as an example has Cork and Kerry on one side, knock on another and Dublin too.. So competition is intense.
For airlines, big cities like Manchester, London , Birmingham are v attractive as huge catchments locally. Equally but importantly, costs like are much lower due to in many cases scale of existing business in their respective bases... Equally Shannon as an example has Cork and Kerry on one side, knock on another and Dublin too.. So competition is intense.
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Sorry for late notice ( Shannon only announced it yesterday ) but A350 due in at 11:00 for customer event.
Should be on FR24 with an AIB____ callsign nearer the time.
Update at 10:30: visit cancelled
Should be on FR24 with an AIB____ callsign nearer the time.
Update at 10:30: visit cancelled
Last edited by El Bunto; 3rd Jul 2015 at 09:30.
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I'd agree it's EIR territory but at the same time, I believe it could work on an A320 … I think it's a tough one to call …
Personally I think EIR is better as it will give a more managed capacity and better scope to increase frequency …
Personally I think EIR is better as it will give a more managed capacity and better scope to increase frequency …
