GLOUCESTERSHIRE
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EGCA,
Just been reading the Wiki page regarding Sheffield, a very interesting statement:
It has been argued that it was this choice of the city airport model, coming immediately before the meteoric rise of the low cost airline in the UK, that condemned the airport from the start: Sheffield arguably did not have enough commerce to support the sort of high-fare short-hop business flights that could use the airport, while aircraft types used by the new low-cost airlines, for which there is much demand in the Sheffield area, could not use the airport due to the length of its runway.
Similar could be said to have significantly contributed to PLH's closure, as a rule of thumb the larger the aircraft the cheaper, per seat, it costs to operate, smaller aircraft cannot compete on seat prices and remain in business.
SO ... scheduled service fares in/out of Staverton would, by rule of thumb, be higher than the fares in/out of CWL, BRS, BHX, LHR etc. thus would, quote, "condemn the airport from the start", and even if larger aircraft, let's say ATR72's, operated scheduled services in/out of Staverton then where the hell are the passengers going to come from with these other already established airports being in such close proximity to Staverton?
In the old days, when PLH was developed, there were no low cost carriers, times have changed, numbers of people travelling have increased but they expect to pay a lesser fare ..... Staverton, Kidlington etc. won't be in a position to offer such lesser fares, there's a lesson to be learned by these wannabee airports, I wonder if they'll ever learn it!
Just been reading the Wiki page regarding Sheffield, a very interesting statement:
It has been argued that it was this choice of the city airport model, coming immediately before the meteoric rise of the low cost airline in the UK, that condemned the airport from the start: Sheffield arguably did not have enough commerce to support the sort of high-fare short-hop business flights that could use the airport, while aircraft types used by the new low-cost airlines, for which there is much demand in the Sheffield area, could not use the airport due to the length of its runway.
Similar could be said to have significantly contributed to PLH's closure, as a rule of thumb the larger the aircraft the cheaper, per seat, it costs to operate, smaller aircraft cannot compete on seat prices and remain in business.
SO ... scheduled service fares in/out of Staverton would, by rule of thumb, be higher than the fares in/out of CWL, BRS, BHX, LHR etc. thus would, quote, "condemn the airport from the start", and even if larger aircraft, let's say ATR72's, operated scheduled services in/out of Staverton then where the hell are the passengers going to come from with these other already established airports being in such close proximity to Staverton?
In the old days, when PLH was developed, there were no low cost carriers, times have changed, numbers of people travelling have increased but they expect to pay a lesser fare ..... Staverton, Kidlington etc. won't be in a position to offer such lesser fares, there's a lesson to be learned by these wannabee airports, I wonder if they'll ever learn it!
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I'm sorry but so long as you're a 19 year old there is certainly demand from Kidlington (loads on Varsity flights were very good - would have been even higher if the confidence was there) for flights; just choosing carefully. Flybe isn't the right operator as 78 seats is too many but Manx2 is just right... and they announced their Kidlington routes a few weeks ago. Same goes for Gloucestershire really - certainly demand on some routes, and I don't really know why you'd trust Wikipedia as an airline strategy source.
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I guess the aviation world was different in 1997 and airlines could afford to start services from Sheffield City with a degree of optimism, and maybe just a little of "fingers crossed behind their backs" attitude.
Not now though, and as Phileas rightly mentions in an earlier post Staverton is right by the M5 so there is good communication for pax to Bristol and Birmingham. Manx2 have I suspect been quite cautious in deciding to offer Jersey flights this summer in addition to their current IOM service.
I dont expect Gloucestershire ever to see a rash of passenger services, and I suspect neither do the airport authorities. Having spent the money on the RESA work they perhaps see their way ahead as being mainly business and commercial operations, with just a modest amount of public transport flights if operators see a clear demand, as apparently is the case with Jersey, where I think they have teamed up with a local travel agent, which probably guarantees a certain level of patronage.
Again I say good luck to EGBJ and hope that it prospers, in whatever way it decides to go commercially.
And by the way, has anyone tracked down any images of the completed RESA work?
Thanks.
Not now though, and as Phileas rightly mentions in an earlier post Staverton is right by the M5 so there is good communication for pax to Bristol and Birmingham. Manx2 have I suspect been quite cautious in deciding to offer Jersey flights this summer in addition to their current IOM service.
I dont expect Gloucestershire ever to see a rash of passenger services, and I suspect neither do the airport authorities. Having spent the money on the RESA work they perhaps see their way ahead as being mainly business and commercial operations, with just a modest amount of public transport flights if operators see a clear demand, as apparently is the case with Jersey, where I think they have teamed up with a local travel agent, which probably guarantees a certain level of patronage.
Again I say good luck to EGBJ and hope that it prospers, in whatever way it decides to go commercially.
And by the way, has anyone tracked down any images of the completed RESA work?
Thanks.
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I always recall the story of Aston Martin vs Jaguar back in the DB5 vs e-type days.
I think these figures are 'ish' right ... Jaguar were selling e-type's for around £4,000.00 so Aston Martin matched Jaguar's price selling DB5's for around £4,000.00 also.
A friend of David Brown (David Brown as in 'DB') had a word in his ear asking if he could have a DB5 at cost price, David Brown replied "Sure, that'll be £5,000.00 please".
David Brown was more interested in making cars than in making money ..... Aston Martin subsequently went bankrupt.
There's a lesson to be learned by these wanna start an airline and/or route(s) characters, I wonder if they'll ever learn it!
I think these figures are 'ish' right ... Jaguar were selling e-type's for around £4,000.00 so Aston Martin matched Jaguar's price selling DB5's for around £4,000.00 also.
A friend of David Brown (David Brown as in 'DB') had a word in his ear asking if he could have a DB5 at cost price, David Brown replied "Sure, that'll be £5,000.00 please".
David Brown was more interested in making cars than in making money ..... Aston Martin subsequently went bankrupt.
There's a lesson to be learned by these wanna start an airline and/or route(s) characters, I wonder if they'll ever learn it!
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Latest RESA pictures (albeit taken in November) are on the Airport's Facebook page.
There are no plans to increase passenger services from Staverton although, as was the case with Manx2, if a market is identified, we will, of course, look at it seriously. Manx2 have carried over 75k pax in 4 years and with free airport parking and 20-minute check in, the pax love the service that small airports can offer.
The work had to be done as a safety issue to remove obstacles and hazardous environments from both ends of the runway. The resultant extra distances would enable short-haul European charter work with ATR, Dash 8 and, to a lesser extent 146 but corporate and ILS training are the target revenue streams...
There are no plans to increase passenger services from Staverton although, as was the case with Manx2, if a market is identified, we will, of course, look at it seriously. Manx2 have carried over 75k pax in 4 years and with free airport parking and 20-minute check in, the pax love the service that small airports can offer.
The work had to be done as a safety issue to remove obstacles and hazardous environments from both ends of the runway. The resultant extra distances would enable short-haul European charter work with ATR, Dash 8 and, to a lesser extent 146 but corporate and ILS training are the target revenue streams...
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Two images, taken in the last couple of days, of the approach to 09 from the air appear in the February image gallery on the unofficial site. Link as follows:
Gloucestershire Airport - A View from the Cafe
Click on the "February Gallery" on the right of the page. In the more distant shot, with the golf course in the foreground, you can see the cleared and graded undershoot ("RESA") area which beforehand contained the kennels complex and a house, now all relocated to the new site you can see on the left perimeter of the airfield. A brook has also been culverted where it crosses the extended centreline, and a footpath/bridleway has been diverted.
Link posted here with due credit and thanks to that website and the photographer.
Gloucestershire Airport - A View from the Cafe
Click on the "February Gallery" on the right of the page. In the more distant shot, with the golf course in the foreground, you can see the cleared and graded undershoot ("RESA") area which beforehand contained the kennels complex and a house, now all relocated to the new site you can see on the left perimeter of the airfield. A brook has also been culverted where it crosses the extended centreline, and a footpath/bridleway has been diverted.
Link posted here with due credit and thanks to that website and the photographer.
Last edited by EGCA; 3rd Feb 2012 at 17:08.
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Several superb images have just appeared in the "February gallery" ( same link as before, see my post above) showing general views of the airfield, including one image of the largely completed RESA work around the 09 threshold. Probably just awaiting ILS installation.
(As before, due credit to the photographer and the website.)
Regards
EGCA
(As before, due credit to the photographer and the website.)
Regards
EGCA
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More images on the F@ceb00k page too. RESA work complete, new entrance open within a month, survey data back, increased 27 LDA theoretically available now, not enough hours in the day...the pics are mine! EGCA do we know you?
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Hi matspart3, no you dont know me. Just a lifelong (layman, not flyer) interest in private and business aviation, started I suppose in the late fifties/early sixties when English Steel Corporation opened Coal Aston airfield ("EGCA"), given the then poor road communications in the North of England and to Scotland, pre-the motorway era.
Cheap aviation fuel and reasonably prosperous business meant industrial concerns around Sheffield could fly piston twins on communications work. Aircraft like the Piaggio P166, Beech 65 Queenair, Beech Baron etc.
Before the M-Ways, how long would it take to get from the steel plant at say Scunthorpe, to the one at Workington in Cumbria? Quicker by air!
Times have changed.
As mentioned in an earlier post, good to see your airfield moving ahead with a secure future, amidst negative news elsewhere aviation-wise.
Will keep an eye on the website in case you have an "enthusiasts" open day this summer!
Regards
Cheap aviation fuel and reasonably prosperous business meant industrial concerns around Sheffield could fly piston twins on communications work. Aircraft like the Piaggio P166, Beech 65 Queenair, Beech Baron etc.
Before the M-Ways, how long would it take to get from the steel plant at say Scunthorpe, to the one at Workington in Cumbria? Quicker by air!
Times have changed.
As mentioned in an earlier post, good to see your airfield moving ahead with a secure future, amidst negative news elsewhere aviation-wise.
Will keep an eye on the website in case you have an "enthusiasts" open day this summer!
Regards
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The increased Landing Distances were NOTAMed available earlier today. Runway 27 increases by 150m to 1147m (3762ft) and 09 by 88m to 1241m (4070ft). TORA/TODA/ADSA remain artificially capped at their present dimensions within 'code2' parameters but all of the overall 1431m (4693ft) of tarmac is available. Declared width has reduced to 30m to increase RESA length. The obstacles in the TOCS (Buildings) have gone too, so the Type A chart looks less scary.
ILS installation continues, with an early 2013 publication date most likely.
Pics here: - Overhead EGBJ from G-BALF | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
ILS installation continues, with an early 2013 publication date most likely.
Pics here: - Overhead EGBJ from G-BALF | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
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Excellent news, and as the airport press release mentions, Filton sadly closes at the year-end, and EGBJ is well situated close to the M5.
Photo linked above shows the recently remarked runway from the 27 end. The image in the airport press release shows the 09 end.
http://www.gloster.pwp.blueyonder.co...yMilestone.pdf
The runway safety project involved the removal of buildings near both ends.
Photo linked above shows the recently remarked runway from the 27 end. The image in the airport press release shows the 09 end.
http://www.gloster.pwp.blueyonder.co...yMilestone.pdf
The runway safety project involved the removal of buildings near both ends.
Last edited by EGCA; 17th Oct 2012 at 20:48.
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Last edited by matspart3; 28th Oct 2012 at 15:06.
Commercial airline ops
There has been much debate about some of the UK's smaller commercial airports being unable to make any profit from passenger flights - places like DTV in particular come to mind, stating publicly a decision to focus on non-passenger activities.
I recently flew as a passenger out of Gloucester with Citywing / Van Air. As far as an airport goes, couldn't see anything wrong with it. 1 check-in desk, 1 security arch, 1 small room post security with a few benches, and staff doubling up in different roles to get things done. Nothing fancy, but didn't need to be - everything kept simple and presumably quite cheap.
If Gloucestershire can do it, why are other small UK airports unable to do the same thing ? I wouldn't exactly call GLO an airport with lots of passenger flights. I know that operating only 19-seaters makes the fire category easier, but is this the sole money-saver, or is there something else making this work commercially ?
I recently flew as a passenger out of Gloucester with Citywing / Van Air. As far as an airport goes, couldn't see anything wrong with it. 1 check-in desk, 1 security arch, 1 small room post security with a few benches, and staff doubling up in different roles to get things done. Nothing fancy, but didn't need to be - everything kept simple and presumably quite cheap.
If Gloucestershire can do it, why are other small UK airports unable to do the same thing ? I wouldn't exactly call GLO an airport with lots of passenger flights. I know that operating only 19-seaters makes the fire category easier, but is this the sole money-saver, or is there something else making this work commercially ?
Brunel to Concorde
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Gloucestershire Airport
Gloucestershire Airport handles more flights than Bristol and London City, stats show | Gloucestershire Echo
This might give an idea of how it works.
This might give an idea of how it works.
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There are a number other UK & island airports, or should we say airfields, that have the same mode of operation as Gloucester, like Land's End St. Just, St. Marys, Alderney, a lot of the HIAL airports, Anglesey/Môn/RAF Valley and also Southend before they expanded. They all do well.
It is the want to be big airports and the airports with a grander past (as a civilian or military airfield) that struggles more it seems. Typical examples of grander past airports are Prestwick, Durham Tees Valley, Liverpool John Lennon and Manston. In the want to be big category there are everything from newcomers with new grand terminals like Doncaster, Bournemouth and Cardiff. There are a number of owners who have invested too much and hoped that it would be easy to win market shares from the big ones. Two investment companies stands out of the crowd, Peel and Infratil, but even more serious players like MAG (BOH, HUY) and HIAL (DND) have had their misfortune.
What Stobart does at Southend is interesting. Purchased airport for low price, lengthening of existing runway, new terminal built, new train station on site built, invest in Aer Arann, signed a 10 year contract with easyJet. The passenger numbers says a lot with first full year under Stobart's leadership 2009 had 3,948 scheduled passengers (scheduled flights like one weekly flybe Q400 SOU-JER) to last year's 964,644 scheduled passengers. I've flown from the airport on one of those Jersey flights with flybe from the old terminal with the staff wearing two or three different hats, but I have also flown from the new terminal with easyJet to Amsterdam. They have managed to hold on this small airport feel with lots of smiles. SEN is indeed one of the gems in the British aviation industry.
It is the want to be big airports and the airports with a grander past (as a civilian or military airfield) that struggles more it seems. Typical examples of grander past airports are Prestwick, Durham Tees Valley, Liverpool John Lennon and Manston. In the want to be big category there are everything from newcomers with new grand terminals like Doncaster, Bournemouth and Cardiff. There are a number of owners who have invested too much and hoped that it would be easy to win market shares from the big ones. Two investment companies stands out of the crowd, Peel and Infratil, but even more serious players like MAG (BOH, HUY) and HIAL (DND) have had their misfortune.
What Stobart does at Southend is interesting. Purchased airport for low price, lengthening of existing runway, new terminal built, new train station on site built, invest in Aer Arann, signed a 10 year contract with easyJet. The passenger numbers says a lot with first full year under Stobart's leadership 2009 had 3,948 scheduled passengers (scheduled flights like one weekly flybe Q400 SOU-JER) to last year's 964,644 scheduled passengers. I've flown from the airport on one of those Jersey flights with flybe from the old terminal with the staff wearing two or three different hats, but I have also flown from the new terminal with easyJet to Amsterdam. They have managed to hold on this small airport feel with lots of smiles. SEN is indeed one of the gems in the British aviation industry.
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Gloucester's good at what it does. It was voted the AOA's 'Best GA Airport 2013'. The scheduled services, which have been successful, despite the economic climate, are a very small part of the day-to-day operation. Small is beautiful. The passengers love it and the right aircraft on the right 'niche' route will work.
