Loganair
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Don't suppose anyone knows if LM have set any dates for the D328's to leave the fleet. Notice G-BYHG has been in BOH since mid April, is this also for engineering or is the aircraft been sold?.
Hinkles "Hand grenade" on isles routes
Airline head-to-head could be damaging in long-term, says Loganair chief | The Shetland Times Ltd
As of September Loganair will be flying solo, though Mr Hinkles stressed today in an external transport forum it is up for the fight with Flybe, which has agreed a new deal with Eastern Airways.
Local politicians have welcomed the move in the belief that competition on the Shetland route will in turn bring down prices. Though Mr Hinkles said: “Flybe are frankly going to try and kill us”.
Mr Hinkles said while Loganair would increase the number of cheaper seats to Aberdeen and offer a “short-term bonanza” with eight flights Flybe had “walked into a room with a hand grenade” which was going to damage both airlines and ferry company NorthLink.
He argued Loganair would offer five flights a day to Aberdeen compared to three by its competitors, as well as a morning and evening service to Edinburgh and flights to Inverness and Kirkwall.
Flybe, he claimed had agreed to offer flights on the Shetland route for only a year. Their top fare was £20 higher than Loganair’s and his airline included a free 20kg baggage allowance and no credit charge for bookings.
He said Loganair was also “protecting connections” to Manchester and London and announced a new frequent flyers’ scheme available on all bookings from 1st September.
Unlike the current scheme, flyers could claim back a flight after 17 return flights rather than 28. Loganair will offer 24 flights a week to and from Shetland.
It will also be re-introducing a Saab 2000 aircraft to three out of five of its Aberdeen flights from September.
Last month, Mr Hinkles said, was the busiest June at Sumburgh in five years, with about 17,600 passengers, up 10 per cent on last year.
Asked after the meeting what the worst case scenario of the competition with Flybe might be, Mr Hinkles, said: “It could be committing all parties involved in this to losses of several millions.”
A greater number of cheaper seats to Aberdeen would affect NorthLink, he said, and if NorthLink’s revenue fell, then a question would need to be asked whether subsidy from the Scottish government would go up.
It also raised issues around a rise in the air discount bill, air services and replacement aircraft, he said.
He stressed in the last two years great deal of work had been done to tackle delays and cancellations and improve reliability.
“In the longer term we have to replace our fleet of aircraft, we know that, but this is not helpful… there are timescales that may go back as a result.”
He urged members of the committee to back the local airline and hoped customers in Shetland would do the same.
Last month Flybe said it was going up against its outgoing partner, after announcing an agreement with Eastern Airways. The partnership would mean flights being offered between Shetland, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow.
It came only six months after an announcement that Loganair and Flybe would end their long-standing franchise agreement.
Flybe later issued a statement expressing disappointment with Mr Hinkles’ approach and accused him of inaccuracies.
The statement from the airline’s press office read: “Flybe is extremely disappointed by the inaccuracies voiced by Mr Hinkles as reported. Flybe has been serving Scotland for over 20 years and remains fully committed to continuing to provide customers with the widest possible choice of affordable travel options in an environment of healthy competition.
“This includes those routes operating from 1st September to the Highlands and Islands from Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow.”
As of September Loganair will be flying solo, though Mr Hinkles stressed today in an external transport forum it is up for the fight with Flybe, which has agreed a new deal with Eastern Airways.
Local politicians have welcomed the move in the belief that competition on the Shetland route will in turn bring down prices. Though Mr Hinkles said: “Flybe are frankly going to try and kill us”.
Mr Hinkles said while Loganair would increase the number of cheaper seats to Aberdeen and offer a “short-term bonanza” with eight flights Flybe had “walked into a room with a hand grenade” which was going to damage both airlines and ferry company NorthLink.
He argued Loganair would offer five flights a day to Aberdeen compared to three by its competitors, as well as a morning and evening service to Edinburgh and flights to Inverness and Kirkwall.
Flybe, he claimed had agreed to offer flights on the Shetland route for only a year. Their top fare was £20 higher than Loganair’s and his airline included a free 20kg baggage allowance and no credit charge for bookings.
He said Loganair was also “protecting connections” to Manchester and London and announced a new frequent flyers’ scheme available on all bookings from 1st September.
Unlike the current scheme, flyers could claim back a flight after 17 return flights rather than 28. Loganair will offer 24 flights a week to and from Shetland.
It will also be re-introducing a Saab 2000 aircraft to three out of five of its Aberdeen flights from September.
Last month, Mr Hinkles said, was the busiest June at Sumburgh in five years, with about 17,600 passengers, up 10 per cent on last year.
Asked after the meeting what the worst case scenario of the competition with Flybe might be, Mr Hinkles, said: “It could be committing all parties involved in this to losses of several millions.”
A greater number of cheaper seats to Aberdeen would affect NorthLink, he said, and if NorthLink’s revenue fell, then a question would need to be asked whether subsidy from the Scottish government would go up.
It also raised issues around a rise in the air discount bill, air services and replacement aircraft, he said.
He stressed in the last two years great deal of work had been done to tackle delays and cancellations and improve reliability.
“In the longer term we have to replace our fleet of aircraft, we know that, but this is not helpful… there are timescales that may go back as a result.”
He urged members of the committee to back the local airline and hoped customers in Shetland would do the same.
Last month Flybe said it was going up against its outgoing partner, after announcing an agreement with Eastern Airways. The partnership would mean flights being offered between Shetland, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow.
It came only six months after an announcement that Loganair and Flybe would end their long-standing franchise agreement.
Flybe later issued a statement expressing disappointment with Mr Hinkles’ approach and accused him of inaccuracies.
The statement from the airline’s press office read: “Flybe is extremely disappointed by the inaccuracies voiced by Mr Hinkles as reported. Flybe has been serving Scotland for over 20 years and remains fully committed to continuing to provide customers with the widest possible choice of affordable travel options in an environment of healthy competition.
“This includes those routes operating from 1st September to the Highlands and Islands from Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow.”
Last edited by exlatccatsa; 7th Jul 2017 at 08:47.
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I remember Flybe made similar comments when they decided to compete for Newquay-Gatwick against the local airline Air Southwest. Competition, choice, blah blah blah. They won that one. ASW got absorbed into Eastern and shut down, and immediately Newquay lost its airlinks to London City, Dublin, Cork, Jersey, Guernsey, Bristol, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow.
Good luck Loganair, the Highlands and Islands need a carrier that is interested in more than just a couple of really profitable routes. If Flybe really wanted to provide connectivity and serve local communities, they'd have signed the codeshare.
Good luck Loganair, the Highlands and Islands need a carrier that is interested in more than just a couple of really profitable routes. If Flybe really wanted to provide connectivity and serve local communities, they'd have signed the codeshare.
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I couldn't agree more.
Looks like places like Wick (where I travel to a lot) will lose any connectivity that isn't BA. And that relationship hasn't been extended beyond 1st August yet...
This seems like a classic FlyBE spoiler. Enjoy the low fares, SYY, LSI and KOI while they last. Flybe doesn't are about you.
Looks like places like Wick (where I travel to a lot) will lose any connectivity that isn't BA. And that relationship hasn't been extended beyond 1st August yet...
This seems like a classic FlyBE spoiler. Enjoy the low fares, SYY, LSI and KOI while they last. Flybe doesn't are about you.
Last edited by SealinkBF; 12th Jul 2017 at 03:07.
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You imply things are happening every day that add up to conclude it is breaking, and yet we are nowhere near September. Please list your pieces of evidence, so I can understand your thinking better, and see if there are genuine grounds for your position.
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All fair operational points:
So they are lethargic/ have a lack of proactivity and action
First 2 points should be resolvable
3rd point is poor but lots of airlines end up in this position and it can be resolved
4th: presumably is a payload factor so they can restrict it to make it work
5th: you might be right...looks a very full day to me so they may have to limit it to 8 sectors not 10.
Now what about any evidence of the relationship (paring) all falling apart?
Personally I think I'd bet on Trump resigning before this partnership fails: you have a UK PLC with city shareholders to deliver to, and a very significant corporate behind Eastern. Whereas Trump is SO deep in the poo and he keeps on digging.
So they are lethargic/ have a lack of proactivity and action
First 2 points should be resolvable
3rd point is poor but lots of airlines end up in this position and it can be resolved
4th: presumably is a payload factor so they can restrict it to make it work
5th: you might be right...looks a very full day to me so they may have to limit it to 8 sectors not 10.
Now what about any evidence of the relationship (paring) all falling apart?
Personally I think I'd bet on Trump resigning before this partnership fails: you have a UK PLC with city shareholders to deliver to, and a very significant corporate behind Eastern. Whereas Trump is SO deep in the poo and he keeps on digging.
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Thx for clarifying. Sloppy T3 operation too but LGN now have plenty to worry about. Both sides will have to improve, the passenger will win in the short term and then the owner haemhorraging the most in February will be approaching the other for a mutual compromise. The elephant in the room is that neither have the right equipment for the next decade and sometime soon they are going to have to address that elephant, and S2000, S340 and JT41 will all go, leaving ......expensive ATRs. No sign of any RoI on the horizon, unless the oil price recovers suddenly.
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This exit from Flybe by Loganair is so like Brexit, maybe lets call it 'Flexit'.
Prior to this Flexit, Flybe were attracting critical mass in terms of drawing in the bulk of regional airlines inside the UK and Ireland, a logical aspiration. Loganair had Scotland covered, Blue Islands, the Channel Islands, Stobart, Ireland and a growing presence in the UK through SEN in Flybe colours. Now arguably the largest regional airline (counting Loganair/ bmiregional as an entity) outside of Flybe itself exit the brand. There is no doubt like the EU, Flybe will want to set an example and prove to the existing franchisees how futile an exercise it would be to contemplate an exit of the Flybe branding.
Ironically, I believe that history will show that many potential airlines will look at this predatory behaviour of Flybe (IMHO that is what it is) and draw a line under any potential opportunity to work with Flybe.
Flybe themselves are not doing this themselves, they are bringing Eastern to the party. An airline who has traditionally positioned itself as a business airline with very high fares on niche routes. If Flybe seriously had an interest in this traditionally Loganair market that it is now focussing on, it would have done it on its own on its own metal.
Mr. Hinkle's has to complemented for his approach here, widespread marketing and clear communication of the differentials between the airlines. This is a powerful story that if told consistently and through the right channels will win the hearts and minds of the locals in Scotland. The consumer has been used to booking on flybe.com, and now the specific risk and challenge is that the consumer doesn't change behaviours and continues to book at Flybe, that is the challenge that the Loganair team face. Marketing has to be to the fore. I believe that Loganair will protect its patch at all costs, and I wish them and their staff the best of luck in this battle.
Prior to this Flexit, Flybe were attracting critical mass in terms of drawing in the bulk of regional airlines inside the UK and Ireland, a logical aspiration. Loganair had Scotland covered, Blue Islands, the Channel Islands, Stobart, Ireland and a growing presence in the UK through SEN in Flybe colours. Now arguably the largest regional airline (counting Loganair/ bmiregional as an entity) outside of Flybe itself exit the brand. There is no doubt like the EU, Flybe will want to set an example and prove to the existing franchisees how futile an exercise it would be to contemplate an exit of the Flybe branding.
Ironically, I believe that history will show that many potential airlines will look at this predatory behaviour of Flybe (IMHO that is what it is) and draw a line under any potential opportunity to work with Flybe.
Flybe themselves are not doing this themselves, they are bringing Eastern to the party. An airline who has traditionally positioned itself as a business airline with very high fares on niche routes. If Flybe seriously had an interest in this traditionally Loganair market that it is now focussing on, it would have done it on its own on its own metal.
Mr. Hinkle's has to complemented for his approach here, widespread marketing and clear communication of the differentials between the airlines. This is a powerful story that if told consistently and through the right channels will win the hearts and minds of the locals in Scotland. The consumer has been used to booking on flybe.com, and now the specific risk and challenge is that the consumer doesn't change behaviours and continues to book at Flybe, that is the challenge that the Loganair team face. Marketing has to be to the fore. I believe that Loganair will protect its patch at all costs, and I wish them and their staff the best of luck in this battle.
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You're right on all points EI-BUD.
This is also a perfect illustration of the dangers of entering into long term relationships with (typically) bigger carriers with deeper pockets. Flybe know the ins and outs of operating the Scottish routes, have all LGN historical operational data, and know just what the pressure points are.
In this day and age when the flying public have been taught that 'cheapest is best, Mr Hinkles has his work cut out for him to convince them that they get what they pay for ---- or not, once Flybe tire of the whole game, leaving routes wholly unserved. They are contracting these days, after all, moving back to their primary routes only, so what kind of future is there for continued service of the Scottish routes?
This is also a perfect illustration of the dangers of entering into long term relationships with (typically) bigger carriers with deeper pockets. Flybe know the ins and outs of operating the Scottish routes, have all LGN historical operational data, and know just what the pressure points are.
In this day and age when the flying public have been taught that 'cheapest is best, Mr Hinkles has his work cut out for him to convince them that they get what they pay for ---- or not, once Flybe tire of the whole game, leaving routes wholly unserved. They are contracting these days, after all, moving back to their primary routes only, so what kind of future is there for continued service of the Scottish routes?
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Loganair is launching a daily ABZ-MME-NWI-MME-ABZ rotation from 16 October. (As reported in EDP).
Last edited by ara01jbb; 7th Aug 2017 at 11:55. Reason: Typo
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Loganair is launching a daily ABZ-MME-NWI-MME-ABZ rotation from 16 October. (As reported in EDP).
DTVA press release on the ABZ-MME-NWI service.
http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.c...valley-airport
http://www.durhamteesvalleyairport.c...valley-airport
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Codeshare with BA has been agreed!
https://www.businesstraveller.com/bu...hare-loganair/
https://www.businesstraveller.com/bu...hare-loganair/
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In the past 24 hours I have read a Loganair propaganda leaflet poking fun at Eastern's fleet among other things, along with an article in the Stornoway Gazette with a High Heid Yin from Flybe offering islanders the chance to come and "Hear the facts" about the air services. Is it just me, or is anyone else finding this willy-waving between Loganair and Flybe/Eastern rather tedious, incredibly unprofessional and downright childish?
From my point of view it appears Flybe/Eastern are attempting to shaft Loganair, something which for either party (but especially BE/T3) can only end in rather expensive and painful tears. The main people losing out, however, will be the island communities, again at the mercy of this rather farcical storm.
From my point of view it appears Flybe/Eastern are attempting to shaft Loganair, something which for either party (but especially BE/T3) can only end in rather expensive and painful tears. The main people losing out, however, will be the island communities, again at the mercy of this rather farcical storm.