EDINBURGH

[Joe Curry]

I'll say again slowly....the airlines decide.

Given BAA owned both EDI and GLA, one could say they were 'steered'.?

[Joe Curry]

A comfy limo

Even so it's accepted that many pax, in the absence of direct EDI flights are connecting over other gateways,

This from former BAA Scotland Donal Dowds.

"Mr Dowds said several million Edinburgh passengers a year were
travelling to long-haul destinations via other airports when they could
be served by direct routes."

Source: £400 million bill to expand airport - News - Scotsman.com

[willy wombat]

It is doubtless also the case that the same applies to Glasgow. My point was merely that if you wanted to get to Dubai without a change of aircraft en-route, EK from GLA is the only option. Politicians can posture as much as they want but there are many destinations which will never attract enough pax to justify direct flights from Scotland. If they could, they would be being served because, as someone has posted earlier, "the airlines decide".

[NorthSouth]

Porrohman:

Many people have high hopes that a new owner at EDI will result in all of its shortcomings being remedied

Indeed. But let's not get hung up on long haul commercial air transport as the be-all and end-all of a successful airport. How about restoring some of the diversity of the airport such as:
- providing proper parking facilities for GA and military traffic so it doesn't have to block r/w 12/30
- encouraging GA operations such as aerial photography, survey, air taxi, pleasure flights, maintenance services
NS

[LFT]

These 'RASCO' figures must be about 6 years out of date so can safely be discarded.

[jabird]

Ryanair announce IBZ, MJV, SZZ and MMX. Thats ontop of VRN for the summer. Looks like BLQ and RAK dropped.

No mention of that on FR's website - were there other new routes, or just these EDI ones? Route maps shows a very interesting swipe from EDI to MMX running right through CRL!

[Porrohman]

LFT said; These 'RASCO' figures must be about 6 years out of date so can safely be discarded.

Really? Has the population of Scotland re-distributed itself geographically to a significant extent in the last 6 years? I can't say I had noticed...

[GSM763]

The M74 extension into central Glasgow may have altered the figures a bit however.

[GustyOrange]

The M80 upgrade will have altered the figured significantly as well.

G

[Joe Curry]

The M74 Extension (three times over budget) opened for business on 28
June, 2011.
In the last half of 2011 - July to December and with the M74 Extension
fully operational - GLA grew by 111,482 passengers (3.081%) compared
to the same period of the previous year.
Not surprisingly, EDI grew by more – 239,034 / 5.075%
Has the M74 Extension conferred greater benefits at EDI by improving road access for passengers from the west?

[The Hypnoboon]

Not strictly AAR related I know, but, the M74 cost £692 million and original estimates were £445 million. Which unless i'm very much mistaken is not 3x the original estimate.

What I actually wanted to point out was using BAA's guide price, and the estimates from the Scotsman, a potential investor in EDI is going to have to fork out £800 million to purchase and upgrade the airport to cater for long haul (or heavier aircraft) at Edinburgh, and in this financial climate, I can see very few companies or consortia being willing to shell out that sort of money for an airport, which may take many a year to return on that investment.

[Porrohman]

GSM763 said; The M74 extension into central Glasgow may have altered the figures a bit however.

GustyOrange said; The M80 upgrade will have altered the figured significantly as well.

That's true, but it works both ways. It brings some people closer to GLA and some people closer to EDI. I suspect the net result will be fairly neutral with neither airport gaining more than the other.

The Hypnoboon said; "...using BAA's guide price, and the estimates from the Scotsman, a potential investor in EDI is going to have to fork out £800 million to purchase and upgrade the airport to cater for long haul (or heavier aircraft) at Edinburgh, and in this financial climate, I can see very few companies or consortia being willing to shell out that sort of money for an airport, which may take many a year to return on that investment."

That's fair comment and part of the reason why we can't necessarily rely on a new owner fixing all of the perceived weaknesses at EDI. At the end of the day investors will look for a return on their investment, after all, they have a choice where they put their money. They can put in a bank and get a few per cent return. They can buy bonds or shares. They can invest in any one of a multitude of other things. They will only invest in EDI if they believe that the returns will justify the investment and they will only invest in improving the facilities if such improvements also provide a suitable return.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens at EDI in the next few years.

[Joe Curry]

Another interesting link to Porrohman's EDI contributions
here.

http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/43190...ml#post6995496

[silverstreak]

Whoever buys EDI will invest, and will do all they can to attract much needed long-haul business. IMHO no one would pay for an airport, only to leave it alone and NOT inviest.

For a captal city, financial centre (albeit much reduced in status over recent years) and tourist gateway - EDI needs to be much bigger and better at what it does...

There will be ongoing development of the SE Pier, creeping even nearer the Business Aviation Terminal but a further revamp of the area between Gates 5 down to 1 needs urgent attention, as well as an expansion of the arrivals hall below

Lets see firstly, who buys EDI and then their plans

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Can I suggest (mods?) that we put this to bed and focus this thread on EDI only? Joe, your posts are going the same way as your EDi newsgroup, in that the topics are almost exclusively a Glasgow diss (albeit hilariously so).

With respect.

OTEA

[Joe Curry]

I'm on topic here. Glasgow Diss? Eyes of the beholder surely.?

[CabinCrewe]

Seems a lot of beholding eyes would disagree. Hopefully the moderators will sort this persistence out, as it is not entertaining and is putting me off this thread.

[jabird]

a potential investor in EDI is going to have to fork out £800 million to purchase and upgrade the airport to cater for long haul (or heavier aircraft) at Edinburgh

The difference between BAA and the new owners is that the new owners have a commercial incentive to compete with GLA, so they might be keener to spend the cash. On the other hand, MOL and others will be sniffing around for lower PSCs, and who's to say he won't play EDI off against a now competing BAA at GLA to bring his Scotland ops under one roof?

I'm not trying to stir the pot between the two cities, just looking at the commercial propostion - hope that's ok modes

[The Hypnoboon]

I fully agree that they have incentive to do it, and not stand still. But my point is Scotland is not an aviation goldmine and that potential £800million or so is a lot of money, with shareholders looking for quick returns (from a lecture delivered by the head of environment at EDI, it's 5 years most investors look for a return on their investment ). That's an awful lot of money to be recouped in a short space of time, even with the holy grail of long haul. Even if a new owner was to come in and do all the necessary with Edinburgh, that BAA would not compete aggressively with Edinburgh in trying to attract long haul business to Glasgow?
I don't see MOL shifting everything to Edinburgh, he has Prestwick's management by the throat, not to mention, that Glasgow and Edinburgh are two different markets. Edinburgh is more business oriented, with a strong inward tourist pull, while Glasgow has more of the sunshine leisure routes and the long haul. (Example, look at the Ryanair routes from the cities, albeit Prestwick for the Glasgow routes).
However, that being said, it is interesting times ahead in the world of Scottish aviation..

[jabird]

it's 5 years most lenders look for a return on their investment

I'm not sure what was meant by this - for a personal loan, that would be normal (they only relatively recently started going to 7). This would be an investment, not a loan - and any infrastructure of this nature would have much longer times than that.

Also, if the airport is worth £800m, then in five years time, it will still be a valuable asset, whatever they do to it - some of the buildings and surfaces will deteriorate, but the funamentals won't change.

I'd be more interested in learning if, given recent talk of trying to bring HS2 to Scotland sooner, rather than later - and starting with a link between Glasgow and Edinburgh - whether that would serve either airport, or indeed both. Realistically, Glasgow airport just needs to get its fixed link 'back on track'. A high speed station underneath the terminal at EDI would give incredibly quick times to both cities, and much more useful than those - ok, I won't mention the t word, probably too sore a point!