EDINBURGH
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A non-LR A321 can barely do LGW-SSH, no way will one extra tank enable BAH/DOH/AUH-EDI! Especially against the winter jetstreams. A319LR maybe, but it's hardly going to be a major revenue generator. A330 minimum.
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I really hope that I'm wrong, but personnally I think the chances of a Middle East route from Edinburgh in the immediate future are low. Whilst theoretically the infrastucture could be adapted to be able to cope, in reality the risks of operational delays due to a variety of factors, many of which have been discussed in the this thread in recent months, are too high.
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A319LR maybe, but it's hardly going to be a major revenue generator
I think QR use the 320 on a few of their East European routes like SOF and OTP, possibly ATH aswell but of course these are much closer in range than EDI.
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QR do indeed use A320s for some European flights. GVA has recently gone down from A330 to A320 on some days (even a 319 recently due to payload restrictions on the 320).
With the planned decrease in MAN flights (14 down to 10 I think) there will be spare capacity but the new 5 x Daily to LHR starting soon will use this aircraft to some extent.
2nd EK at GLA is a small blow to EDI but QR have ambitious plans of their own for the UK. With new aircraft arriving (an A320 yesterday) and the 787 due mid-tail end of the year, along with more B777s and the A380, its an exciting time. Its not all about being the biggest (EK), its about what you offer to the passenger both in the air (on board) and on the ground, facilities wise and recovery measures when things go astray. QR do look after the customer in all phases of the journey to an exceptional standard.
EDI has the facilities in place, albeit limited but with new owners on the horizon who will want to attract new airlines and customers things will improve. There is about to be a business longe vacated by bmi, which would be ideal for an airline such as QR, right outside Stands 4 / 6 which have airbridges. QR offer excellent connections from their hub in DOH and once the new airport opens - 12.12.2012, it will be even better. The BAA didnt ever do justice to EDI, competing with GLA (Scottish HQ). Very slow to expand and invest. And of course both lagged investment due to LHR and LGW being the jewels in the crown - LoL!
Best thing that has happened to EDI is the sale to a new owner to invest and develop. New owners will not buy EDI to sit on it. They want to make a return on their money. The future I think is looking better than ever for EDI!
Lets wait and see what happens. May take a little time but as I say, hopefully worth the wait
With the planned decrease in MAN flights (14 down to 10 I think) there will be spare capacity but the new 5 x Daily to LHR starting soon will use this aircraft to some extent.
2nd EK at GLA is a small blow to EDI but QR have ambitious plans of their own for the UK. With new aircraft arriving (an A320 yesterday) and the 787 due mid-tail end of the year, along with more B777s and the A380, its an exciting time. Its not all about being the biggest (EK), its about what you offer to the passenger both in the air (on board) and on the ground, facilities wise and recovery measures when things go astray. QR do look after the customer in all phases of the journey to an exceptional standard.
EDI has the facilities in place, albeit limited but with new owners on the horizon who will want to attract new airlines and customers things will improve. There is about to be a business longe vacated by bmi, which would be ideal for an airline such as QR, right outside Stands 4 / 6 which have airbridges. QR offer excellent connections from their hub in DOH and once the new airport opens - 12.12.2012, it will be even better. The BAA didnt ever do justice to EDI, competing with GLA (Scottish HQ). Very slow to expand and invest. And of course both lagged investment due to LHR and LGW being the jewels in the crown - LoL!
Best thing that has happened to EDI is the sale to a new owner to invest and develop. New owners will not buy EDI to sit on it. They want to make a return on their money. The future I think is looking better than ever for EDI!
Lets wait and see what happens. May take a little time but as I say, hopefully worth the wait
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Qatar Airways, ever made a profit? Ever published accounts?
Emirates at least is a (mainly) commercial entity, the same cannot be said of Etihad and Qatar. The fact that they are sending the Minibus onto routes that had the A330 may mean little but is there really room for all three operators in this market? Commercially I mean?
Glasgow's last major investment airside was the new international pier some 17 years ago. They opened a new security hall recently but given it's just a big empty queueing space I refuse to get too excited. EDI has been renovated airside twice in that time and had the South East pier and a new control tower built as EDI caught up and overtook GLA. It remains a a pint in a half pint pot, GLA is rather like a ghost town some nights. Indeed even though numbers are up on ten years ago, the smaller number of rotations on larger aircraft means GLA often looks dead. Indeed on one occasion last year, there was ONE aircraft in. One single Loganair SF340 on the old international pier, ( and a BA B734 hiding in the hangar. ) Having grown up around there, that's a change. EDI however is much busier.
Emirates at least is a (mainly) commercial entity, the same cannot be said of Etihad and Qatar. The fact that they are sending the Minibus onto routes that had the A330 may mean little but is there really room for all three operators in this market? Commercially I mean?
The BAA didnt ever do justice to EDI, competing with GLA (Scottish HQ). Very slow to expand and invest. And of course both lagged investment due to LHR and LGW being the jewels in the crown - LoL!
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Remember that EY have a rather comprehensive codeshare agreement with FlyBe which offers them ideal connections to/from EDI. QR on the other hand can amazingly offer connections through major hubs onto their network using other airlines and still win hands down on price. The UK is perhaps the best country in Europe for connectivity for EY and QR.
If you look further down the road at Birmingham, many people have speculated that QR may start up there but with a couple potentially saving hundreds in Y and thousands in J from MAN or LHR then most people won't batter an eyelid in driving up to MAN or down to LHR and jumping on a QR flight, than paying a lot more money to travel from BHX. If QR can attract people with ridiculously cheap fares from EDI (for example) via MAN and LHR onto their network then why establish a new route in what is a rather saturated market?
For example a random quote in May for EDI-BKK with BA via LHR was nearly £300 more expensive than booking with QR to fly EDI-BKK via LHR and DOH with the domestic sector being flown on BA! It was even slightly cheaper to connect through MAN with FlyBe.
If QR revised their fare structure to what could be described as more realistic levels then the catchment area for LHR and MAN will reduce from the existing huge radius. Only then will they perhaps need to focus on a potential third UK destination. Until that happens then I see little need for them to consider expanding anywhere in the UK.
If you look further down the road at Birmingham, many people have speculated that QR may start up there but with a couple potentially saving hundreds in Y and thousands in J from MAN or LHR then most people won't batter an eyelid in driving up to MAN or down to LHR and jumping on a QR flight, than paying a lot more money to travel from BHX. If QR can attract people with ridiculously cheap fares from EDI (for example) via MAN and LHR onto their network then why establish a new route in what is a rather saturated market?
For example a random quote in May for EDI-BKK with BA via LHR was nearly £300 more expensive than booking with QR to fly EDI-BKK via LHR and DOH with the domestic sector being flown on BA! It was even slightly cheaper to connect through MAN with FlyBe.
If QR revised their fare structure to what could be described as more realistic levels then the catchment area for LHR and MAN will reduce from the existing huge radius. Only then will they perhaps need to focus on a potential third UK destination. Until that happens then I see little need for them to consider expanding anywhere in the UK.
Last edited by Mr R Sole; 25th Jan 2012 at 16:23.
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QR are short - seriously short of aircraft currently. The Baltic routes were delayed due to this. GVAs A330 is used in part to ChongQuing (Newest Chinese route) so on those days the flight operates, GVA is downgraded to A320
Latest A320, (R) arrived in DOHA last week and pressed into service within 36hours. No rest. No slack in the operation when something goes technical.
B787 due this year, as well as more B777s. A380 next year and then the massive A320 orders start rolling in, as well as the new airport, not to mention buying stakes in other carriers and companies...
Latest A320, (R) arrived in DOHA last week and pressed into service within 36hours. No rest. No slack in the operation when something goes technical.
B787 due this year, as well as more B777s. A380 next year and then the massive A320 orders start rolling in, as well as the new airport, not to mention buying stakes in other carriers and companies...
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Last edited by Joe Curry; 29th Jan 2012 at 09:18. Reason: Bad link
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how Emirates execute their global expansion.
have courted EK with better offers? Would visitors to the UK's #2 tourist/business city appreciate not being inconvenienced getting there.?
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Probably the only British "Industry" where you're rewarded for failing, and failing big time at that. What's he getting, a million £, what a farce.
As I said, sadly, Edinburgh has lost it's credibility as a financial centre.
As I said, sadly, Edinburgh has lost it's credibility as a financial centre.
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Didn't Delta tip their toe in the water with flights to Atlanta and JFK, I take it yield was low?
Are United/Continental the only long haul operator at Edinburgh just now, and what happened to the Orlando flights operated by 747's (can't remember the operator?)
Are United/Continental the only long haul operator at Edinburgh just now, and what happened to the Orlando flights operated by 747's (can't remember the operator?)
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A lot of uneven comparisons creeping in here. The EDI v GLA inequalities
are well documented. The thing to remember is that given a level playing field
EDI outperforms.. Past so-called EDI 'failures' were down to feeding a monopoly owner's other offerings plus a lack of slots and infrastructure. Hopefully independent owners at both airports will banish this EDI v GLA
nonsense forever
are well documented. The thing to remember is that given a level playing field
EDI outperforms.. Past so-called EDI 'failures' were down to feeding a monopoly owner's other offerings plus a lack of slots and infrastructure. Hopefully independent owners at both airports will banish this EDI v GLA
nonsense forever
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Mr. Curry.
Whilst I'm not going to get dragged into an EDI vs GLA debate (my time is much too valuable) I do have to correct your errors.
EDI-Berlin has just been dropped, GLA-Berlin has not.
GLA outperforms EDI on virtually every route to Spain, Greece and Turkey, to name a few.
Anyway, let's focus on EDI here.
I do recall someone stating somewhere that EDI - Middle East would start by autumn 2011. Hopefully any plans have just been delayed and not abandoned.
Does anyone have any info?
G
Whilst I'm not going to get dragged into an EDI vs GLA debate (my time is much too valuable) I do have to correct your errors.
EDI-Berlin has just been dropped, GLA-Berlin has not.
GLA outperforms EDI on virtually every route to Spain, Greece and Turkey, to name a few.
Anyway, let's focus on EDI here.
I do recall someone stating somewhere that EDI - Middle East would start by autumn 2011. Hopefully any plans have just been delayed and not abandoned.
Does anyone have any info?
G
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EDI-BER was dropped by Ryanair, who also cancelled a few other routes to Berlin and reduced frequency on most, if not all, of their other routes into Berlin at the same time. I don't imagine EDI-BER will remain vacant for very long.
GLA-BER is still run by easyJet, so not really a fair comparison, there.
As for North America, Thomson are launching CUN and SFB this summer.
GLA-BER is still run by easyJet, so not really a fair comparison, there.
As for North America, Thomson are launching CUN and SFB this summer.