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Air Atlanta Europe B757 merger Excel Airways

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Air Atlanta Europe B757 merger Excel Airways

Old 20th May 2005, 06:34
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Air Atlanta Europe B757 merger Excel Airways

The B757s operated by Air Atlanta Europe for and on behalf of Excel Airways are to be bought onto the G Register by bringing them within the AOC of Excel Airways.

It appears that the B767 200s and 300s will follow within the next few months.

Air Atlanta Europe will remain as B747 operator.

What precisley will happen to the AAE, AAI, Permanent, Temporary and Contractor flight crews is not certain as yet. At least some will be transfered to Excel with immediate effect (volunteers please) with the remainder being ofered the opportunity to transfer when the B767s move over.

Clearly TUPE regulations will apply here but clearly this is not going to be a painless process.
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Old 23rd May 2005, 10:30
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Paul..it would seem from the overwhelming response to your posting,that nobody is very interested in the imminent transfer of Atlanta 757s to Excel.Certainly AAE management is not interested enough to inform their underlings of what is going on(no change there!) and AAI 'management' is so far away in Reykjavik no one can hear their monosyllabic mutterings anyway.
It would seem from the ensuing rumours that the Icelandic CAA have fallen out with the British CAA(obviously,they mentioned the cod war..and didn't get away with it!)The ICAA have taken umbrage and decreed that 757/767 crews can no longer fly both AOCs and they must be fleeted according to registration.This puts AAE/AAI and Excel crewing into even more of a mess than they were already.Diplomatic speak(and there ain't much of that around here) would say that the British CAA was probably arrogant and the resulting ICAA's response 'unhelpful'.
Excel's roster handling is not the best.They go to their management with tales of how wonderful they are and how those awful Atlanta crews fail to cooperate,whilst Atlanta crews get pushed from pillar to post by umpteen roster changes per month caused by a combination of poor roster planning and lack of crew.In the meantime,AAE/AAI's massive training requirement is not rostered in the most efficient way either,with wasted training opportunities resulting in even more crew shortages.There is a steady and constant drift of flight deck away from AAE to other operators by those looking for more stability and better pay,and F/Os looking for some sort of real command prospect.
Rumour has it that the rush to get the 757s onto the G reg is to remove its present poor engineering cover as quickly as possible,and place it under Excel's technical management(something about fat and fire spring to mind in this regard.There's a big difference between looking after 3 and 4 year old 737s and 20 year old 75s).The technical state of the four planes is lamentable with rumours of engine flame outs and surges and spurious stall warnings amongst many other recent problems.Two weekends ago,all four 757s were AOG simultaneously.The big question is,will it ever be possible to get them transferred to the G reg.?Many dubious maintenance organisations have run their greasy fingers over them since they came from Two Bob.One AAE chap said there was an engineering rumour that so many improper parts would have to be replaced and so many repairs redone to an acceptable design authority,it would be cheaper to buy new!
Paul,you ask what would happen to the different sort of crews.The original plan was that AAI contract and permanent crews would gently disappear as the G reg takes over.There was to have been a core of thirty AAE crews and any others would have been brought in seasonally or as required.Obviously only those with JAR licences would be able to remain.But the core of thirty crews has never been achieved,and if the training/rostering situation is allowed to continue,it never will.With the increased lack of flexibility due to crew now not being allowed to move from TF to G,and the introduction of yet another AOC..God help them! It would be nice to think there would be increased chances for Excel 737 crews to broaden their 'type' horizons too...but don't hold your breath.These are not the quiet planned changes of a steady handed management,but rather the fire fighting knee jerkings of too many cooks with a similar language content of that ilk as seen on TV.Any thought of TUPE etc.,might be the wishful thinking of our BALPA represented Excel crew room.The AAE pilots may well decide they don't want to join Excel(we are paid less and made to wear hats after all!).It might be expedient if they were not invited to transfer just yet,and remained AAE employees on their own terms and conditions.It is obvious that eventually they will all become part of Excel in order to reduce management overheads and 'ring out the synergies',as the business section of any paper would say.But all in good time methinks.
My own opinion,for what it's worth,would be for Excel crews not to get too excited,it may never happen and for Atlanta Europe crews to stay away from their phones,'cos it probably will.
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Old 23rd May 2005, 10:51
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abra,

If you are suggesting that your 4 757's are running around with uncertified parts onboard then I would suggest that the local CAA surveyor urgently looks into the situation. If their short inspection of the companies paperwork shows uncertainty as to the parts fitted, then they should be grounded forthwith (on G register), or refused access to UK airspace(TF registerd) until the matter is resolved.

As for AOC matters, I think the CAA is quite right in finally standing up to the mess that is offered under the current arrangement. Anytime there is an area of operation that would not be allowable to the CAA, or any other UK airline, then suddenly it seems to fall under the TF banner, and hence not UK CAA jurisdiction. If ever, god forbid, there was a serious incident/accident there would be great difficulty establishing EXACTLY what responsibilities lay with either side of the organisation.

I'm not an employee of either organisation, but do frequently use Excel services to/from Egypt as a customer. I have generally always good flights with them, and look forward to doing so in the future.

30W
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Old 23rd May 2005, 14:15
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Thirty West..I agree.Perhaps that was what the British CAA/Icelandic CAA arguement was about in the first place and the reason why they have to get the 757s onto the G reg so pronto.To clean up the act to our CAA's satisfaction.I always thought JAA membership would have created a level playing field in this area but obviously not.
BTW,they are not my 757s,just a similar paint job.
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Old 23rd May 2005, 14:58
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Well surely this IS a good thing -it has been very much against our interests as professional pilots to have UK based aircraft operating under a variety of different regulatory regimes -and operating of course to the most relaxed option in things like duty hours.
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Old 23rd May 2005, 17:05
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\\Rumour has it that the rush to get the 757s onto the G reg is to remove its present poor engineering cover as quickly as possible,and place it under Excel's technical management\\\

\\...The technical state of the four planes is lamentable with rumours of engine flame outs and surges and spurious stall warnings amongst many other recent problems.Two weekends ago,all four 757s were AOG simultaneously.....Many dubious maintenance organisations have run their greasy fingers over them...\\\

No? Really?

Gee, what an absolute surprise.
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Old 26th May 2005, 13:45
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It is very likely that the CAA have lost patience with Excel who have been going to put these aircraft on the UK register for many many months.

You only have to look at the section of the CAA website that deals with leasing on aircraft etc. to see what I mean.
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Old 31st May 2005, 13:24
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Excel/atlanta have contracted their 757 line maintenance at Manchester to monarch, so this must surely be a step in the right direction.
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Old 31st May 2005, 15:08
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I believe the 757 wil now stay with Air Atlanta, and not transfer to Excel !
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Old 1st Jun 2005, 17:07
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The 757's are going on Excels AOC with the 767's following later. Guess we will have to wear hats.
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Old 20th Jul 2005, 08:11
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On good information (external to the company)that all TF aircraft in 767 fleet will be G reg by the end of the year.
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Old 21st Jul 2005, 00:51
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savio3..it would be good if it happened.It would simplify so much of the grief that seems to be generated within their triumverate AAE/AAI/Excel crewing ,maintenance and management structures,a really severe case of too many chiefs and not enough Indians, Nigerians, French, Germans, Icelandics, Tongans, Brits, Ozzies etc.,if ever there was one(the latest addition,an 'AAI Base Commander',for example,is equally mystified by the correct spelling of Excel as he is by the FTLs implied by an Annex 10 operation,sending out contradictory FTL advice in FCNs within days of each other).
Rather like the 'AAI to get 777s' thread,I still think that G regging will be later rather than sooner.It would be good to be proved wrong,I rather fancy a type change to do a 767 longhaul trip from time to time.
And what happens when they get something G reg.The one 767 they do have has no wet runway performance information according to one ex MyTravel captain in the crew room the other day.So what happens at the subsequent board of enquiry whist flying within the great British regulatory system? Perhaps EASA is not to be feared after all!
And Shot one.According to their crew,they take the most restrictive 371 and Icelandic FTLs.So TF reg flights over 7 1/2 hours carry a third crew member who would not normally be required under the Icelandic FTLs. The only difference is that discretion reports are more likely to be analysed in the UK than they are by Inga Dorrisdottir of the ICAA,if she ever gets to see them.
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